Ray Allen....not bad.

[tzznandrew]

The people who didn't think Ray Allen was a HOFer before winning a title weren't very knowledgable. In fact, I bet those same people would have voted Vince Carter in.

Pierce's and Ray's careers are extremely close, with Pierce getting the edge because of his all-around game. Both guys should make it in on the first ballot, but they're both a notch below the Ducans/Kobes/KGs of the world.

Totally agree, although there is an outside shot Carter gets voted into the Hall.

 

[Gurleyman]

Pierce was maybe a hairline above Ray. Head and shoulders above him, no. When they had paired up, they had very similar career numbers, and had limited postseason experience, with each having some signature games (Ray's 46 vs. Sacramento/43 vs. Philly, Pierce's triple-double/40 vs. Indy, etc.). Both had been in the conference finals once. Ray played very well in defeat (shot 48 percent, 48 percent on threes, 2.5:1 assist to turnover ratio, went gonzo in an elimination game with 43 to tie series 3-3), and Pierce frankly soiled himself (shot 36 percent, 21 percent on threes, 1:1 A:TO ratio).

In Game 7 against the Lakers, Ray (3-14) had to guard Kobe (6-24), and Kobe didn't have to guard him. Kobe got to sit back and play 10 feet off Rondo to rest for offense. They basically played to a standstill of coldness, while Pierce (who was 5-15 himself) lost his battle with Metta World Peace (20 points, dagger three) at the three spot. I know Celtics fans like to blame Ray for Game 7, and they certainly could have used another shot or two from him, but damn, Pierce needed to win that head to head battle with MWP and his psychiatrist and he lost it.

(on edit, the reverse was true in that first Cleveland series in 2008, when Pierce was dealing with LeBron, and Ray was losing a battle with Szczerbiak - I'm actually very thankful to Pierce, and PJ Brown, for carrying Ray through that series and saving his rep. Pierce's performance in Game 7 there could be his masterpiece).

Now, in the Big Three Era, I freely agree that Pierce was - part by design of their system, and part skill level at that stage of their career - head and shoulders better. But when you start talking HOF - Ray had one advantage over Pierce, even back in 2007 (moot now, since they will both go). Ray was the best ever at something (or in the discussion among the top two or three). Pierce doesn't have that signature thing that would have made people remember him (which is different now that he was the alpha dog on a great Celtics team that people will remember, with a Finals MVP).

 

[huskyharry]

Congrats to Ray for earning his second ring!

 

[Scoe]

Did you hear what Lebron just said, "You need a little bit of luck to win a title and we had Jesus on our side Jesus Shuttlesworth"

 

[Waquoit]

Pierce was maybe a hairline above Ray. Head and shoulders above him, no.

Pierce was more than a hairline, less than head and shoulders better. A good head, I would say. (Is there bad head?)

 

[ZenConn]

They did a Sport Science on that shot actually. Interesting.

 

[DOZE860]

As much as i did not want the heat to win this, the fact that Ray hit the fade away 3 to send game 6 into overtime, kinda makes it ok.. he basically save Lebron's legacy

 

[Gurleyman]

Pierce was more than a hairline, less than head and shoulders better. A good head, I would say. (Is there bad head?)

Their time together in Boston pushed Pierce ahead, but in the 4-5 years before that, when they were both playing separately and basically in their primes, Ray was marginally better, IMO. Their respective performances in the ECF - although a small sample size - was a huge advantage to Ray. And Ray's best season (2nd team All-NBA, ninth in MVP) was better than Pierce's best at that stage.

Pierce's skill set and craftiness with the ball did allow him to continue to be more effective later in his career. When Ray lost a step, he was reduced to a jump shooter who needed help (screens, passes) getting his shot, whereas Pierce could still use his assortment of stepbacks, duckunders, drives, etc. So I think by being more effective for a longer period of time, Pierce should move slightly ahead.

I will give you eyebrows, but that's my final offer!

 

[Joobie]

Congrats to Ray for earning his second ring!

SO...do you think he'll retire now?

 

[Gurleyman]

I personally don't think he'll retire. He still has a role as a gun for hire where there will be demand for his services. He's still in shape (he played 41 minutes in Game 6), and he actually played good D in the playoffs (Green/Neal were good match-ups for him, but he defended Paul George well too), so he wasn't exposed as old, like he could have been if he had to cover someone like Harden, for example.

But I can't get in his head - you never know when some people think that going out on top feels right. He'll do OK in life after basketball, so he doesn't have to hang on for the sake of hanging on.

 

[jleves]

SO...do you think he'll retire now?

I think he wants to get to 3000 3 pointers. He's only 143 away. Two seasons and done imo. Maybe two more rings to go with the all time record would ink him as an all time great.

 

[Kitaman]

They did a Sport Science on that shot actually. Interesting.

Thanks its a fancy way of saying that Ray made an accurate/tough shot. Lebron owes part of his legacy to Ray's shot. Even I was ready to bash his crunch time performance until that shot. He more than made up for it, with my respect!

 

[Gurleyman]

The most impressive part of that video, I think, was subtle - his heels never touching the ground as he backpedaled. Those little things that are the result of practice/repetition that make all the difference when you can do them instinctively when you need them most.

The eight degree difference in his usual shooting arc was probably the mental compensation for shooting while sliding backwards, knowing your momentum going slightly away from the basket will have your usual arc come up short - even though he elevated nicely and wasn't really fading much.

 

[huskyharry]

SO...do you think he'll retire now?

Hope not...he still has a lot to offer and certainly seems like he enjoys playing.

 

[Scoe]

I think he will try to play 1-2 more years, despite how much Ray may down play the 3 point record he wants to maintain that record.