Ray Allen #56 all time in NBA

[HuskyFich]

Every team Ray went to got better, every team Vince went to got worse.

Sure.
Joining Rondo, Pierce, Garnett and Co, they got better.
Joining LeBron, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, they got better.

Your argument is like making the case that the Golden State Warriors got better because they added Kevin Durant. take a seat

 

[methodology]

I loved Wes Unseld's game. But no way is he higher on the list than Lanier, or his own team-mate in Earl the Pearl. They are up to 41 already,and you know there are certain guys who HAVE to be top 15. MJ, Magic, Bird, Julius, Oscar, Russell, Wilt and Kareem off the top of my head represent more than half of the top 15, and if I'm making the list, Elgin Baylor and Moses belong there too. So that takes away another 10 spots, leaving 31 up for grabs. Make that 30, because Elvin Hayes has to be there too. Looking at where the existing guys are ranked, I've got a feeling it's going to be way too recency weighted near the top.

Duncan, kobe, Shaquille, Hakeem.

KG probably top 20-25

 

[Mr. French]

Prime Ray Allen is and will always be underrated. He didn't get tons of notice from the general public until the last 7-8 years of his career, when he took a backseat to KG and Pierce and then joined as a specialist (nothing wrong with that, I don't get the criticism for when players do this) with the Heat.

Seattle Ray and even Bucks Ray was a bad man.

That said, I haven't gone deep into this article in any way to compare players, but just outside 50 sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Scoe]

Sure.
Joining Rondo, Pierce, Garnett and Co, they got better.
Joining LeBron, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, they got better.

Your argument is like making the case that the Golden State Warriors got better because they added Kevin Durant. take a seat

Ray did pretty good in the playoffs with the Sonics and Bucks better then Vince ever did and had a 50 pt game when he was past his prime. Vince joined contenders like the Nets, Magic and Mavericks guess what they all took a step back. Ray got to the Celtics before KG got there. Your the one with the weak argument getting comparing it to KD joining GS which is getting OT go take a lap.

 

[superjohn]

PIPM supports this:

Drexler is so underrated, he couldn't get it done in those 2 finals with Portland but he lost to 2 all-time teams in the Bulls and Pistons. Jordan torched him for 36 ppg in the '92 finals but that just shows how amazing Jordan was. Drexler still averaged 25 ppg, 8 rebs, 5 assists. Against the Pistons in the '90 finals he averaged 26.5 ppg, 8 rebs, 6 assists, 2 steals.

He was my favorite player and I had a life sized cutout of him in my room so I'm a bit biased but I think he's the 4th best shooting guard ever after Jordan, Kobe, and Wade.

All the other lists I've seen have him as a top 5 shooting guard ever, the weird thing is ESPN came out with another list of top shooting guards ever where they have him listed 5th way ahead of Ray Allen and Reggie Miller.

 

[HuskyFich]

Ray did pretty good in the playoffs with the Sonics and Bucks better then Vince ever did and had a 50 pt game when he was past his prime. Vince joined contenders like the Nets, Magic and Mavericks guess what they all took a step back. Ray got to the Celtics before KG got there. Your the one with the weak argument getting comparing it to KD joining GS which is getting OT go take a lap.

Joined Nets two years after their championship.
Joined the Magic the year after their finals appearance, and the year the Miami Heat big 3 were formed
Joined the Mavs the year after their championship season.

But keep going, please.

EDIT: All I'm trying to prove here is that you are criminally underrating Vince Carter.

 

[Scoe]

Joined Nets two years after their championship.
Joined the Magic the year after their finals appearance, and the year the Miami Heat big 3 were formed
Joined the Mavs the year after their championship season.

But keep going, please.

Are you also saying Vince is better then KD just because KD joined GS. Btw Ray did get to the conference finals before he was on the Celtics, Vince never did.

Your still not answering the question did Ray make every team better and did Vince make them worse?

 

[UCTitleTown]

Anti-UConn bias. Kid should be Top 50...

 

[Chin Diesel]

So, they dropped 40-11. I'm looking at PG rankings here. Going from lowest ranked to highest ranked

40 Chris Paul
39 Clyde Frazier
35 Jason Kidd
31 Isiah Thomas
30 Steve Nash
29 Allen Iverson
28 John Stockton
13 Steph Curry
11 Oscar Robertson

Interesting grouping. As you get in to the top 30 almost every player listed has at least one MVP. They have Moses Malone at #18 and he has 3 MVP's. Once you are in the top 30 you are talking the essential list of a league with a 70 year history. Mr. Logo himself, Jerry West is #16. Then they go Dr. J, KD, Steph, Olajuwon and Oscar. That's a pretty good staring five. Backcourt of Steph and Big O, Dr. J and KD as your forwards and The Dream as your center. And they're all outside the top 10.

Back to the PG's. I think they have Isiah underrated by listing him below Nash and AI. The write up says it best. Isiah took out Bird, Magic and MJ in the playoffs while they were all in their primes. He had the epic finals game on the bum ankle. Regular season MVP's aside, I want Isiah running my team over Nash and AI every day of the week.

Bunch of 4's in here as well. Some were 4/5's like McHale. Others were 3/4 like Barkley.

36 McHale
27 Giannis
23 Barkley
22 Eglin Baylor
20 KG
19 Dirk
17 Karl Malone

No real complaints here.

The centers are interesting because they have some of the early pioneers and some of the newer centers and trying to figure out who is better based on style of player within the era makes this tough.

38 Pettit
37 Ewing
34 Mikan
24 David Robinson
18 Moses Malone
12 Olajuwon

I really have no idea how to slot Pettit or Mikan other than to look at how they did against their peers. But whatever. Definitely think Ewing is too high. Sorry, no championships, no MVP's. I'd have him closer to 50.
Regardless of position they have Barkley one slot ahead of David Robinson. Not sure on that one. Peak Robinson was better than peak Barkley. And I was a huge Barkley fan.

Going to the 2's and 3's. Lots of stuff in here.

33 Havlichek
32 Harden
26 Dwayne Wade
25 Kawhi Leonard
21 Scottie Pippen
16 Jerry West
15 Dr. J

I'll say it. Pippen is way too high. Maybe the best #2 compliment to the #1 but no MVP's, no championships without Mike and a total bitch move of benching himself in the playoffs. And Harden is too high too. I'd have both them in the 40's. The rest of these players led championship teams on their backs and deserve where they belong.

So, top 10 in no particular order............I actually brain farted on MJ because I have him as number one and was trying to figure out the rest of the top 10,

Shaq
Wilt
Jabbar
Russell
Bird
Magic
Kobe
Lebron
Tim Duncan
MJ

 

[Chin Diesel]

I loved Wes Unseld's game. But no way is he higher on the list than Lanier, or his own team-mate in Earl the Pearl. They are up to 41 already,and you know there are certain guys who HAVE to be top 15. MJ, Magic, Bird, Julius, Oscar, Russell, Wilt and Kareem off the top of my head represent more than half of the top 15, and if I'm making the list, Elgin Baylor and Moses belong there too. So that takes away another 10 spots, leaving 31 up for grabs. Make that 30, because Elvin Hayes has to be there too. Looking at where the existing guys are ranked, I've got a feeling it's going to be way too recency weighted near the top.

FYI, Elvin Hayes was in the 40's.

 

[BleedHuskyBlu]

How do they have KD as only 14th?? How bogus is this list. Whats next, you're gonna tell me Lebron isnt ranked #1?

 

[superjohn]

I guess it's a new panel of "experts."

 

[Lefty2one]

Drexler is so underrated, he couldn't get it done in those 2 finals with Portland but he lost to 2 all-time teams in the Bulls and Pistons. Jordan torched him for 36 ppg in the '92 finals but that just shows how amazing Jordan was. Drexler still averaged 25 ppg, 8 rebs, 5 assists. Against the Pistons in the '90 finals he averaged 26.5 ppg, 8 rebs, 6 assists, 2 steals.

People forget or are ignorant of Clyde's playmaking. His 5-year peak was 25/7/6. His legacy was hurt by being in Portland for much of his career. He's the perfect guy to juxtapose with Reggie in terms of what media exposure can do for a player.

 

[superjohn]

So, they dropped 40-11. I'm looking at PG rankings here. Going from lowest ranked to highest ranked

40 Chris Paul
39 Clyde Frazier
35 Jason Kidd
31 Isiah Thomas
30 Steve Nash
29 Allen Iverson
28 John Stockton
13 Steph Curry
11 Oscar Robertson

Interesting grouping. As you get in to the top 30 almost every player listed has at least one MVP. They have Moses Malone at #18 and he has 3 MVP's. Once you are in the top 30 you are talking the essential list of a league with a 70 year history. Mr. Logo himself, Jerry West is #16. Then they go Dr. J, KD, Steph, Olajuwon and Oscar. That's a pretty good staring five. Backcourt of Steph and Big O, Dr. J and KD as your forwards and The Dream as your center. And they're all outside the top 10.

Back to the PG's. I think they have Isiah underrated by listing him below Nash and AI. The write up says it best. Isiah took out Bird, Magic and MJ in the playoffs while they were all in their primes. He had the epic finals game on the bum ankle. Regular season MVP's aside, I want Isiah running my team over Nash and AI every day of the week.

Bunch of 4's in here as well. Some were 4/5's like McHale. Others were 3/4 like Barkley.

36 McHale
27 Giannis
23 Barkley
22 Eglin Baylor
20 KG
19 Dirk
17 Karl Malone

No real complaints here.

The centers are interesting because they have some of the early pioneers and some of the newer centers and trying to figure out who is better based on style of player within the era makes this tough.

38 Pettit
37 Ewing
34 Mikan
24 David Robinson
18 Moses Malone
12 Olajuwon

I really have no idea how to slot Pettit or Mikan other than to look at how they did against their peers. But whatever. Definitely think Ewing is too high. Sorry, no championships, no MVP's. I'd have him closer to 50.
Regardless of position they have Barkley one slot ahead of David Robinson. Not sure on that one. Peak Robinson was better than peak Barkley. And I was a huge Barkley fan.

Going to the 2's and 3's. Lots of stuff in here.

33 Havlichek
32 Harden
26 Dwayne Wade
25 Kawhi Leonard
21 Scottie Pippen
16 Jerry West
15 Dr. J

I'll say it. Pippen is way too high. Maybe the best #2 compliment to the #1 but no MVP's, no championships without Mike and a total bitch move of benching himself in the playoffs. And Harden is too high too. I'd have both them in the 40's. The rest of these players led championship teams on their backs and deserve where they belong.

So, top 10 in no particular order............I actually brain farted on MJ because I have him as number one and was trying to figure out the rest of the top 10,

Shaq
Wilt
Jabbar
Russell
Bird
Magic
Kobe
Lebron
Tim Duncan
MJ

Agree on Zeke, nobody who played against Isiah and Stockton thought Stockton was better. Also agree on Pippen being too high.

I'm interested in where Bird will be in the top 10, Larry Legend seems to be more and more underrated as time passes.

 

[BleedHuskyBlu]

Agree on Zeke, nobody who played against Isiah and Stockton thought Stockton was better. Also agree on Pippen being too high.

I'm interested in where Bird will be in the top 10, Larry Legend seems to be more and more underrated as time passes.

There is nothing Larry Bird does better than KD. Literally not one thing

 

[Lefty2one]

Also on board with Pippen being generally overrated. For example, there is no way in hell Pippen was a better player than Barkley. Pip was the perfect Batman and his defensive reputation is deserved but his overall ability to lead a team and be the alpha is overstated. I always thought the talk was a bit crazy that he was the second-best player in the NBA back then, granted it wasn't a super popular opinion, but enough people said it.

Every Pippen supporter mentions Chicago's '93-'94 season but no one brings up the struggling '94-'95 team before MJ's return. They went 13-4 after MJ returned, including a 12-1 stretch. Chicago was 32-31 and looking like a surefire first-round exit before MJ laced them up.

 

[Lefty2one]

There is nothing Larry Bird does better than KD. Literally not one thing

KD is a better passer than Bird was? Bird also averaged 10 boards a game for his career, despite competing with Parish and McHale for much of his career. KD is at 7.1 career despite being several inches taller.

 

[superjohn]

There is nothing Larry Bird does better than KD. Literally not one thing

Bwahahahahahaha.

 

[superjohn]

KD is a better passer than Bird was? Bird also averaged 10 boards a game for his career, despite competing with Parish and McHale for much of his career. KD is at 7.1 career despite being several inches taller.

Bird was better at everything than Durant.

 

[Lefty2one]

I think it's fair to debate who the better scorer is, though they are neck and neck to me.

 

[superjohn]

I think it's fair to debate who the better scorer is, though they are neck and neck to me.

True. Bird is one of the best passers ever, better rebounder, defender and then you have the whole competitiveness/intangibles thing. Only guy who I take over Bird in competitiveness is Jordan.

 

[Chin Diesel]

How do they have KD as only 14th?? How bogus is this list. Whats next, you're gonna tell me Lebron isnt ranked #1?

How do they have KD as only 14th?? How bogus is this list. Whats next, you're gonna tell me Lebron isnt ranked #1?

Who are you putting KD ahead of on the remaining list?


Steph
Olajuwon
Big O
and then the top 10
Shaq
Wilt
Jabbar
Russell
Bird
Magic
Kobe
Lebron
Tim Duncan
MJ

 

[Chin Diesel]

There is nothing Larry Bird does better than KD. Literally not one thing

Bwahahahahahaha.

Bird was better at everything than Durant.

I think it's fair to debate who the better scorer is, though they are neck and neck to me.

True. Bird is one of the best passers ever, better rebounder, defender and then you have the whole competitiveness/intangibles thing. Only guy who I take over Bird in competitiveness is Jordan.

Bird was a 3x champ and 3x MVP and played when Magic, MJ, Moses and Olajuwon were in their absolute primes. He had 3 straight MVP's.

 

[BleedHuskyBlu]

Bird was better at everything than Durant.

3 point shooting, defending, athleticism, Scoring in general. Bird was overrated in a bad era