Question for Frank the Tank | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Question for Frank the Tank

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
4,619
Reaction Score
13,776
Does Delany think B1G expansion to 14 is placing the conference in the best possible position for the next television rights negotiation or would he try one more time to expand prior to this event to further enhance his position?

Will Delany retire in 2018 and if that is the case will he look back and be satisfied with B1G expansion to 14 or would he try one more time to expand prior to this event to further enhance his legacy?
I've mentioned this before, but a man as powerful as Delany - does he want the last CR issue that occurs under his watch to be Swofford kicking him in the nuts?
I'm not saying this means he'll invite UConn. But I think that aside from negotiating the TV deal, he still itches at somehow finding a 15 and 16 before 2018 is over.
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
538
Reaction Score
182
I've mentioned this before, but a man as powerful as Delany - does he want the last CR issue that occurs under his watch to be Swofford kicking him in the nuts?
I'm not saying this means he'll invite UConn. But I think that aside from negotiating the TV deal, he still itches at somehow finding a 15 and 16 before 2018 is over.


This is only true if Delany fails in delivering NYC and DC - if his plan succeeds, he'll be laughing all the way to his grave.
 

pj

Joined
Mar 30, 2012
Messages
8,623
Reaction Score
25,076
I would love to believe UVa and UConn to the B1G, but only UNC is more central than UVa to the ACC. It will be hard for them to leave, and state politicians looking out for VaTech are just one more barrier. The Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas/UConn group is maybe more plausible, it would require the Pac to take TTech/OSU/KSU, but maybe Fox would broker that deal -- and build in a Pac/B1G rivalry game in football so that the in-state rivalries are protected.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
5,531
Reaction Score
13,361
So UConn drives all the value of SNY in Connecticut? The NY Mets and the NY Jets have nothing to do with it? That seems a bit disingenuous to me.
Met and Jet fans seems to be Brooklyn and LI
Fairfield County is heavily Yankee fans
New Haven county DMZ Yankee Sox
The Sox are the team East of the Ct River
Ct is mostly giant fans with the Pats
east half. The only constant in Connecticut is UConn sports.

I think from a Big Ten perspective they're not counting on needing UConn to get NYC, so unless that plan backfires you're look at UConn delivering just Connecticut. If it's just Connecticut I can see the Big Ten potentially adding UConn as a #16 or #18 if their top choices don't pan out.
UConn football can't deliver Ct
But in BB crazy NYC
UConn has a name look at Kemba Walker

That said, I think any further expansion by the Big Ten / SEC guarantees a spot for UConn in the ACC so I don't think it's the end of the world for UConn even if the Big Ten passes.
I hope not as I couldn't begain to tell you how much I despise the ACC.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
538
Reaction Score
182
BTW, if it's really true that UConn is the primary driver for SNY in Conn and you guys are driving in ~$2.2 /per person x 1M people x 12 Months = $26.4M annually I'm curious why you guys don't create your own UConn channel.

I have no idea how much SNY pays for UConn content but according to this article it sounds like that money is actually split evenly across all Big East members? Seems like bad business to me.

http://articles.courant.com/2010-08...00805_1_sny-sportsnet-new-york-uconn-football
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
5,531
Reaction Score
13,361
BTW, if it's really true that UConn is the primary driver for SNY in Conn and you guys are driving in ~$2.2 /per person x 1M people x 12 Months = $26.4M annually I'm curious why you guys don't create your own UConn channel.

I have no idea how much SNY pays for UConn content but according to this article it sounds like that money is actually split evenly across all Big East members? Seems like bad business to me.

http://articles.courant.com/2010-08...00805_1_sny-sportsnet-new-york-uconn-football
We had one back in 1979 but it changed it'd name to ESPN

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 

SubbaBub

Your stupidity is ruining my country.
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
32,159
Reaction Score
24,807
BTW, if it's really true that UConn is the primary driver for SNY in Conn and you guys are driving in ~$2.2 /per person x 1M people x 12 Months = $26.4M annually I'm curious why you guys don't create your own UConn channel.

I have no idea how much SNY pays for UConn content but according to this article it sounds like that money is actually split evenly across all Big East members? Seems like bad business to me.

http://articles.courant.com/2010-08...00805_1_sny-sportsnet-new-york-uconn-football

Bingo...and people wonder why we're so cranky about this mess. Starting and running a network would eat into most of that $26M, but when people say UCONN can't pay it's own way in CR they don't know what they are talking about.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,349
Reaction Score
46,669
So UConn drives all the value of SNY in Connecticut? The NY Mets and the NY Jets have nothing to do with it? That seems a bit disingenuous to me.

I think from a Big Ten perspective they're not counting on needing UConn to get NYC, so unless that plan backfires you're look at UConn delivering just Connecticut. If it's just Connecticut I can see the Big Ten potentially adding UConn as a #16 or #18 if their top choices don't pan out.

That said, I think any further expansion by the Big Ten / SEC guarantees a spot for UConn in the ACC so I don't think it's the end of the world for UConn even if the Big Ten passes.

Yes. That's what I'm saying. The Jets? There are no Jets games on SNY. The Mets? It pales in comparison.

Seriously, study up on SNY ratings for UConn games in the state of Conn. versus Mets games. Even the UConn women do 20x the ratings. They bump the Syracuse men off SNY when they go head-to-head.

Read this: http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/011113aac.html

Realize that UConn sports licensing and tier 3 rights are $24.8m a year for UConn, $10m ahead of the nearest BE team. They are very profitable for SNY.
 

CTMike

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
11,415
Reaction Score
40,749
I hope not as I couldn't begain to tell you how much I despise the ACC.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Not as much as I hate the AAC.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,349
Reaction Score
46,669
BTW, if it's really true that UConn is the primary driver for SNY in Conn and you guys are driving in ~$2.2 /per person x 1M people x 12 Months = $26.4M annually I'm curious why you guys don't create your own UConn channel.

I have no idea how much SNY pays for UConn content but according to this article it sounds like that money is actually split evenly across all Big East members? Seems like bad business to me.

http://articles.courant.com/2010-08...00805_1_sny-sportsnet-new-york-uconn-football

ESPN started in Central CT and showed UConn sports because it had UConn affiliations. Oh wait....

Yes, all revenue is shared except for women's revenue. UConn can't afford to snub conference members. It is not Texas. If it snubs them and they say, "Take a hike!," then those conference members lose some money (how much? they get $2m now, again how much?) but UConn is looking for another conference. The new conference, however, is allowing UConn to keep its women's money, but that's mostly because no one else has invested in it.

As for the money coming in from SNY from cable (and leaving ad revenues out), you have to account for production costs. Remember, SNY piggybacks on ESPN production to show those games that would otherwise be on ESPN 3. The women's games are SNY produced. The men's bball goes back and forth. The coaches shows are produced by IMG and they pay UConn for those rights.

Fox produces BTN games and takes half, unless I'm mistaken, so even though the total take for SNY is $2.2m, they have to pay the Mets, they have to pay ESPN, they have production costs, and they have to make a profit. So, the value of UConn TV on SNY is obviously much less than $26m, but that goes the same for the TV money potential of Rutgers on BTN in NYC (I'm making the connection with YES and pro sports there).
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
405
Reaction Score
458
I understand that if Texas wishes to join the B1G it will happen and perhaps Oklahoma and/or Kansas and/or Missouri ride the coattails. However ....

A quote from Frank's blog ...

The overall message from the Big Ten today is that it’s going full steam ahead in heading to the East Coast. I’ve long been confident that the strategy will work around leveraging Maryland to get into the Washington, DC and Baltimore markets (which will only be further aided by adding Johns Hopkins as an affiliate member), yet the New York City portion of this cycle of expansion and bowl contracts will determine whether Big Ten is going to end up being the second most powerful sports entity in America after the NFL in 10 years or we’ll be sitting around wondering why the conference had chased after cable network fool’s gold. There’s a better chance for the former to occur than what a lot of conference realignment skeptics believe, but the latter could certainly still happen.

A quote from Frank's Q & A ...

A larger issue might be whether Oklahoma coming *alone* without Oklahoma State is truly possible since the Big Ten wouldn't be willing to add OSU in a package deal (similar to how the conference would only want Kansas without Kansas State). I've spoken with a lot of OU and KU fans that believe that they could drop their respective in-state brothers if necessary, but I'm not quite sure of that whenever state politicians and high profile boosters like T. Boone Pickens inevitably get involved when there's a viable threat to their special interests out there.

Delany has made it clear that the B1G desires to be a bi-regional conference with eastward expansion and penetration into the NYC market a goal.
How does moving further into the Midwest accomplish this goal?
Those in charge of OU/OSU and KU/KSU respectively have made it clear that separation of each school from its in-state partner is not a desirable option.
I find it hard to believe that OU and KU to the B1G will happen unless OSU and KSU are taken care of which means basically going to the SEC or PAC 12.
How likely are either of these conferences to want these schools without OU and KU? Perhaps I am wrong but not likely in my opinion.
Again, I understand that if Texas wishes to join the B1G that is a game changer; however, short of that I am still trying to see how OU and KU to the B1G will happen.

I know people on this board don't necessarily want to hear this, but moving east in and of itself is NOT the goal of the Big Ten. That's the mistaken assumption that I keep seeing on this board a lot. Now, if the Big Ten gets who it believes to be the right schools in the east, then yes, it wants to move in that direction. That doesn't mean moving east for the sake of moving east, though.

Gordon Gee's remarks to Ohio State's athletic council were certainly insensitive, but it also provided a rare glimpse into the Big Ten's thinking that wasn't covered up by PR-speak and general "we're monitoring the landscape" platitudes. He said multiple times that Kansas and Missouri were high on his list, but the reason why the Big Ten didn't go that direction initially was that they were hoping for a breakup of the ACC and that "making a T" going toward the southeast was what the Big Ten was really after. When the Big Ten says "We want to go East", in my mind, that means UVA and UNC. Those are the two Eastern schools that the Big Ten really wants.

If the Big Ten can't get those two, though, that doesn't mean that the conference is simply going to add other eastern pieces for the sake of geography. This is a league that still wants to make a lot of money, and making a lot of money still ultimately means maintaining a great product. In the event that ACC schools are off the table, then schools like Kansas are absolutely high (if not on top) of the list. (Whatever happens with Missouri, I don't think anyone is leaving the SEC, so what the Big Ten's thoughts on them at this point are largely irrelevant.) KU is an AAU school with a massive fan base and the bluest of the blue blood basketball programs. You can't get any more blue blood than James Naismith starting up your basketball program. Also, KU's market isn't really the state of Kansas - it's both Kansas and the western half of Missouri (as KU is directly in the KC market, only it's on the Kansas side of the border). (And lest you think that I have any personal affinity for that school, that's absolutely not the case. I loathe those guys and wish nothing but bad things to happen to that team with the tiny exception that I'd slightly favor them over the even worse Duke. However, my personal viewpoint should have little to do with how they objectively should be valued in conference realignment.) Unless the Big Ten also wants to add Iowa State (which makes zero financial sense) and assuming that they aren't adding Mizzou or any ACC schools, there aren't any other contiguous AAU options for school #16. Good for UConn? I don't necessarily think so because if the Big Ten starts going down the proverbial well of looking at non-AAU members, then Oklahoma is sitting right there, and they're arguably a more valuable version of the Nebraska program that the Big Ten just added (more recent success, larger immediate home state market, and effectively a home team in the massive football-crazy Dallas market, so OU is the closest addition that gets you legit access to the state of Texas without actually being in Texas). The Big Ten spent the time and money to commission a study on Oklahoma for conference realignment, so this isn't exactly a stretch.

Yes, the Big Ten wanted to get a presence in the New York market, which is why they added Rutgers. However, the standards are much higher for schools #15 and #16. Essentially, schools #15 and #16 have to make markets almost irrelevant, where they're powerful enough additions that the Big Ten Network transforms from a regional network to a legit national network. That's what OU and KU can do better than anyone once you get past the obvious Notre Dame/Texas-types. Just look at what the Big Ten would be football-wise by slotting OU (along with KU) in the West Division and then incorporating KU into the basketball league. (Yes, I know that UConn has been stellar at basketball, as well, but KU is one of the few basketball brands strong enough where that can legitimately compensate for a lack of football success. Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Indiana and UCLA are also on that very short list. Everyone else, even schools like Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan State and UConn that have had elite programs every bit as successful as those blue bloods over the past 20 years, are on the "What have you done for me lately?" list where basketball doesn't count that much.)

In essence, I believe that the Big Ten would prefer to add UVA and UNC over OU and KU, but if they can't add UVA and UNC (which is more likely than not in my mind, particularly UNC), then I could certainly see OU and KU being the next targets. The main drawbacks to OU and KU are more political - making the very large assumption that any grant of rights issues are resolved, I think both of those schools would take a Big Ten invite in a heartbeat if they're left to their own devices, but they might not be able to act alone if they have to bring their in-state brothers of OSU and KSU with them (which would be non-starters for the Big Ten).
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,922
Reaction Score
3,266
You could have just said "Uconn will never be in the B1G" Frank!

I think some of your points are too far based on assumptions.

"Yes, the Big Ten wanted to get a presence in the New York market, which is why they added Rutgers. However, the standards are much higher for schools #15 and #16. Essentially, schools #15 and #16 have to make markets almost irrelevant, where they're powerful enough additions that the Big Ten Network transforms from a regional network to a legit national network."

The last two moves have been SOLELY about markets. There is no team that makes markets irrelevant except Notre Dame who has spurned the Big forever. Maybe Texas, but they have the LHN which I don't see them giving up so easily. It's easy to say the B1G will go after a national precense, but it is alot harder to do so. If history is any indication when the media contract is up for renewal there is a good chance the B1G will expand to 16 to max inventory and money. Big 12 will (correct me if I am wrong) still be under contract and under a GOR, additionally Kansas, Ok, and UT all have state universities conencted to them that is going to make a quick escape to the B1G nearly impossible. Is that good for UConn? Probably not either because there would be no #16 still, but it's a glimmer of hope I guess.

"the standards are much higher for schools #15 and #16." That I can agree with...I mean the B1G took Rutgers ;).

In a perfect world for us. The SEC takes a run at Virginia Tech and another team for 16 to disrupt the ACC. UVA decides to go B1G and UConn is there for the taking while UNC tries to figure out if games against Duke NC State and WF are more important than joining the best overal conference in the country. Will it ever happen? I am starting to doubt it, but gotta #b1gharder on the USS Connecticut or I'll go crazy.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,349
Reaction Score
46,669
You could have just said "Uconn will never be in the B1G" Frank!

I think some of your points are too far based on assumptions.

I agree. Frank really doesn't have a good grip on New York at all. Never once has he addressed what we've been saying here about SNY and UConn's presence. No matter about the blue bloods of basketball, what matters is now. What are you selling now? UConn is ripping it when it comes to those questions. Look at the licensing/tier 3 numbers. Those are undeniable. Look at the bball ratings. Undeniable. It's the most popular team in NYC.

The problem has always been football.

Louisville and Syracuse? Small markets with nowhere near the interest (nor success) in those teams that Conn. has in both the 29th biggest market and in the New York market. Frank continually underplays this.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,811
Reaction Score
9,056
I know people on this board don't necessarily want to hear this, but moving east in and of itself is NOT the goal of the Big Ten. That's the mistaken assumption that I keep seeing on this board a lot. Now, if the Big Ten gets who it believes to be the right schools in the east, then yes, it wants to move in that direction. That doesn't mean moving east for the sake of moving east, though.

Gordon Gee's remarks to Ohio State's athletic council were certainly insensitive, but it also provided a rare glimpse into the Big Ten's thinking that wasn't covered up by PR-speak and general "we're monitoring the landscape" platitudes. He said multiple times that Kansas and Missouri were high on his list, but the reason why the Big Ten didn't go that direction initially was that they were hoping for a breakup of the ACC and that "making a T" going toward the southeast was what the Big Ten was really after. When the Big Ten says "We want to go East", in my mind, that means UVA and UNC. Those are the two Eastern schools that the Big Ten really wants.

If the Big Ten can't get those two, though, that doesn't mean that the conference is simply going to add other eastern pieces for the sake of geography. This is a league that still wants to make a lot of money, and making a lot of money still ultimately means maintaining a great product. In the event that ACC schools are off the table, then schools like Kansas are absolutely high (if not on top) of the list. (Whatever happens with Missouri, I don't think anyone is leaving the SEC, so what the Big Ten's thoughts on them at this point are largely irrelevant.) KU is an AAU school with a massive fan base and the bluest of the blue blood basketball programs. You can't get any more blue blood than James Naismith starting up your basketball program. Also, KU's market isn't really the state of Kansas - it's both Kansas and the western half of Missouri (as KU is directly in the KC market, only it's on the Kansas side of the border). (And lest you think that I have any personal affinity for that school, that's absolutely not the case. I loathe those guys and wish nothing but bad things to happen to that team with the tiny exception that I'd slightly favor them over the even worse Duke. However, my personal viewpoint should have little to do with how they objectively should be valued in conference realignment.) Unless the Big Ten also wants to add Iowa State (which makes zero financial sense) and assuming that they aren't adding Mizzou or any ACC schools, there aren't any other contiguous AAU options for school #16. Good for UConn? I don't necessarily think so because if the Big Ten starts going down the proverbial well of looking at non-AAU members, then Oklahoma is sitting right there, and they're arguably a more valuable version of the Nebraska program that the Big Ten just added (more recent success, larger immediate home state market, and effectively a home team in the massive football-crazy Dallas market, so OU is the closest addition that gets you legit access to the state of Texas without actually being in Texas). The Big Ten spent the time and money to commission a study on Oklahoma for conference realignment, so this isn't exactly a stretch.

Yes, the Big Ten wanted to get a presence in the New York market, which is why they added Rutgers. However, the standards are much higher for schools #15 and #16. Essentially, schools #15 and #16 have to make markets almost irrelevant, where they're powerful enough additions that the Big Ten Network transforms from a regional network to a legit national network. That's what OU and KU can do better than anyone once you get past the obvious Notre Dame/Texas-types. Just look at what the Big Ten would be football-wise by slotting OU (along with KU) in the West Division and then incorporating KU into the basketball league. (Yes, I know that UConn has been stellar at basketball, as well, but KU is one of the few basketball brands strong enough where that can legitimately compensate for a lack of football success. Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Indiana and UCLA are also on that very short list. Everyone else, even schools like Louisville, Syracuse, Michigan State and UConn that have had elite programs every bit as successful as those blue bloods over the past 20 years, are on the "What have you done for me lately?" list where basketball doesn't count that much.)

In essence, I believe that the Big Ten would prefer to add UVA and UNC over OU and KU, but if they can't add UVA and UNC (which is more likely than not in my mind, particularly UNC), then I could certainly see OU and KU being the next targets. The main drawbacks to OU and KU are more political - making the very large assumption that any grant of rights issues are resolved, I think both of those schools would take a Big Ten invite in a heartbeat if they're left to their own devices, but they might not be able to act alone if they have to bring their in-state brothers of OSU and KSU with them (which would be non-starters for the Big Ten).

Apparently you know more about the B1G and expansion than the Michigan AD. He must be lying :)

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
268
Reaction Score
134
I agree. Frank really doesn't have a good grip on New York at all. Never once has he addressed what we've been saying here about SNY and UConn's presence. No matter about the blue bloods of basketball, what matters is now. What are you selling now? UConn is ripping it when it comes to those questions. Look at the licensing/tier 3 numbers. Those are undeniable. Look at the bball ratings. Undeniable. It's the most popular team in NYC.

The problem has always been football.

Louisville and Syracuse? Small markets with nowhere near the interest (nor success) in those teams that Conn. has in both the 29th biggest market and in the New York market. Frank continually underplays this.

Football is clearly the number one hurdle for Uconn. The basketball history and recent success are positives, but realignment has been centered around football tradition and recent football success to this point.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,349
Reaction Score
46,669
Football is clearly the number one hurdle for Uconn. The basketball history and recent success are positives, but realignment has been centered around football tradition and recent football success to this point.

Read Frank's post where the discussion is basketball. He is touting Kansas for bball. Sound like a football power to you?
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
405
Reaction Score
458
I agree. Frank really doesn't have a good grip on New York at all. Never once has he addressed what we've been saying here about SNY and UConn's presence. No matter about the blue bloods of basketball, what matters is now. What are you selling now? UConn is ripping it when it comes to those questions. Look at the licensing/tier 3 numbers. Those are undeniable. Look at the bball ratings. Undeniable. It's the most popular team in NYC.

The problem has always been football.

Louisville and Syracuse? Small markets with nowhere near the interest (nor success) in those teams that Conn. has in both the 29th biggest market and in the New York market. Frank continually underplays this.

Well, I'd beg to differ. We've probably spent more time analyzing and reviewing data about what it would take to crack the NYC market on my blog over the past 3 years than any other subject and the conclusion has been, "It's a big-time risk no matter who you add." You could add Rutgers, Notre Dame, UConn, Syracuse and BC to the Big Ten on top of Penn State and Maryland and you *still* can't guarantee anything in the NYC market. This is in contrast to places like Kansas and Oklahoma - there might not be as many people there (although more than what a lot of people giving credit for since their fan bases legitimately spill over into Texas and Missouri in a stronger and more direct way than UConn spills over into NYC), but the difference is that the Big Ten Network can literally charge whatever it wants per subscriber there since a cable carrier will go out of business if it doesn't provide access to OU football and KU basketball. There's no guessing game there or in North Carolina with UNC (and even Virginia with UVA). The confidence level that the Big Ten has in those schools "delivering" their respective home markets is 100%. That's simply not the case in the Northeast. Rutgers got lucky by being in the right place in the right time in the right location when the Big Ten needed another school to come in with Maryland.

At the same time, if everything that you've stated is correct and means as much as you believe, then (a) how the heck did the Big East become the punching bag in conference realignment and (b) how has a school that provides such obvious value of UConn get passed over? Forget about whether you believe that UConn draws better in NYC than Rutgers or Syracuse - the Big East had ALL OF THEM (plus St. John's and Seton Hall on top of them) and made by far the least amount of TV money with the worst bowl tie-ins of the BCS conferences and was picked apart completely. The answer that what you perceive to be obvious (the NYC market is massive, UConn provides a big chunk of it plus the rest of Connecticut, and that means that this is easy money in the bag for the Big Ten) is *anything* but obvious. Frankly, the viability of the NYC market for college market is the furthest thing from obvious in all conference realignment. To be sure, there were some massive leadership problems with the old Big East, but that alone doesn't explain a lot of the underlying issues as to why the conference wasn't ever considered to be that valuable in the marketplace.

So, I'm very well aware of what matters in the NYC market. To the extent that you believe that I underplay UConn's impact in its home region, what I think is constantly and massively underplayed here a lot is just how much more college sports are followed elsewhere. It's not even in the same hemisphere. You may tell yourself that UConn has a good fan base with good TV ratings. And, if your sphere is comparing yourselves to Syracuse football or Rutgers basketball, you might be right. However, that's simply not the case compared to Kansas basketball or Oklahoma football (and that's both locally and nationally). Those are big-time brands with massive national fan bases and long histories that are contiguous to the Big Ten footprint. KU is even an AAU member while OU has almost the exact same level of graduate research activity (which is what the Big Ten cares more about than undergrad rankings) as UConn. So, if you don't take those two schools seriously as Big Ten targets, then I don't know what to tell you.

Look - I don't mean to be harsh. This isn't meant to knock UConn. There's a lot of value in the school academically, location-wise, and as a basketball brand. However, conference realignment decisions aren't made in a vacuum. You're competing with other schools that may have AAU membership, certain levels of national appeal, longer football histories, better football recruiting grounds, faster growing demographics, etc. Underestimating what other schools bring to the table while overestimating your own appeal WILL get you killed in conference realignment (and I absolutely believe that UConn underestimated Louisville in competing for that last ACC spot). The only way UConn has a chance to move up is to examine what schools like KU and OU (or even Louisville) are doing better than UConn at (whether it's football, still selling out stadiums even in down periods, etc.) and then eliminate those disadvantages to the best of your ability because assuming that what you have now is enough is simply not true (and that's only going to get exacerbated in the new Gang of Five world, as Rutgers, Syracuse, et. al at least had the old Big East's BCS AQ status to hang their hats on).
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
538
Reaction Score
182
Kansas is probably as a good a comparison for UConn as any - both are basketball schools, in similar size states, poor recruiting grounds, mediocre football.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
268
Reaction Score
134
I agree. Frank really doesn't have a good grip on New York at all. Never once has he addressed what we've been saying here about SNY and UConn's presence. No matter about the blue bloods of basketball, what matters is now. What are you selling now? UConn is ripping it when it comes to those questions. Look at the licensing/tier 3 numbers. Those are undeniable. Look at the bball ratings. Undeniable. It's the most popular team in NYC.

The problem has always been football.

Louisville and Syracuse? Small markets with nowhere near the interest (nor success) in those teams that Conn. has in both the 29th biggest market and in the New York market. Frank continually underplays this.

I think Uconn has a lot to offer to both the ACC and the B1G. But I agree with Frank that the B1G is not going to rush to conclusions to include a team on the east coast because it failed to land UVA and UNC. The B1G footprint allows it to access teams of the midwest as well, and some of those teams have more to add than Uconn. For the ACC, access to teams will primary be on the east coast only. Thus, Uconn seems to be a no brainer during the next expansion of the ACC.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,922
Reaction Score
3,266
I think Uconn has a lot to offer to both the ACC and the B1G. But I agree with Frank that the B1G is not going to rush to conclusions to include a team on the east coast because it failed to land UVA and UNC. The B1G footprint allows it to access teams of the midwest as well, and some of those teams have more to add than Uconn. For the ACC, access to teams will primary be on the east coast only. Thus, Uconn seems to be a no brainer during the next expansion of the ACC.

I truly believe UConn will never be in the ACC.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
268
Reaction Score
134
I dont have any better numbers than Nate does in that article, but man it seems like he pulling them out of his ass... google searches and a selection bias of people who have run across common census.... yup real reliable

I agree the report seems to be developed on less than perfect resources, but I think it shows that no college football team is popular enough to carry NYC. If Rutgers struggles for football covereage in NYC, then the B1G may see NYC as a lost cause for football. If Rutgers (and PSU, OSU, Mich) carry NYC enough to carry the B1G network, then Uconn becomes less viable. Uconn needs Rutgers to be popular enough to create interest in NYC, but not popular enough to hold it down.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,922
Reaction Score
3,266
I agree the report seems to be developed on less than perfect resources, but I think it shows that no college football team is popular enough to carry NYC. If Rutgers struggles for football covereage in NYC, then the B1G may see NYC as a lost cause for football. If Rutgers (and PSU, OSU, Mich) carry NYC enough to carry the B1G network, then Uconn becomes less viable. Uconn needs Rutgers to be popular enough to create interest in NYC, but not popular enough to hold it down.

Or the B1G could just want to make inroads through basketball on its BTN which is what NYC really loves...
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
5,531
Reaction Score
13,361
Read Frank's post where the discussion is basketball. He is touting Kansas for bball. Sound like a football power to you?
My point exactly
The difference between us and Kansas is our Basketball Market is ten times bigger.They may be a more historic basketball name but we can change that with more success. People completely underestimate JC retirement.
UConn football has to tread water.
The perception of football will increase. in direct proportion to our basketball success. The power of humans to rationlize is amazing.
Frank seems to be a decent guy.
But his Congress of Vienna approch to CR is not how dynamics in real life occur. The adaption and exploitation to these changes .
will determine success or failure not the status quo.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,349
Reaction Score
46,669
Well, I'd beg to differ. We've probably spent more time analyzing and reviewing data about what it would take to crack the NYC market on my blog over the past 3 years than any other subject and the conclusion has been, "It's a big-time risk no matter who you add." You could add Rutgers, Notre Dame, UConn, Syracuse and BC to the Big Ten on top of Penn State and Maryland and you *still* can't guarantee anything in the NYC market. This is in contrast to places like Kansas and Oklahoma - there might not be as many people there (although more than what a lot of people giving credit for since their fan bases legitimately spill over into Texas and Missouri in a stronger and more direct way than UConn spills over into NYC), but the difference is that the Big Ten Network can literally charge whatever it wants per subscriber there since a cable carrier will go out of business if it doesn't provide access to OU football and KU basketball. There's no guessing game there or in North Carolina with UNC (and even Virginia with UVA). The confidence level that the Big Ten has in those schools "delivering" their respective home markets is 100%. That's simply not the case in the Northeast. Rutgers got lucky by being in the right place in the right time in the right location when the Big Ten needed another school to come in with Maryland.

At the same time, if everything that you've stated is correct and means as much as you believe, then (a) how the heck did the Big East become the punching bag in conference realignment and (b) how has a school that provides such obvious value of UConn get passed over? Forget about whether you believe that UConn draws better in NYC than Rutgers or Syracuse - the Big East had ALL OF THEM (plus St. John's and Seton Hall on top of them) and made by far the least amount of TV money with the worst bowl tie-ins of the BCS conferences and was picked apart completely. The answer that what you perceive to be obvious (the NYC market is massive, UConn provides a big chunk of it plus the rest of Connecticut, and that means that this is easy money in the bag for the Big Ten) is *anything* but obvious. Frankly, the viability of the NYC market for college market is the furthest thing from obvious in all conference realignment. To be sure, there were some massive leadership problems with the old Big East, but that alone doesn't explain a lot of the underlying issues as to why the conference wasn't ever considered to be that valuable in the marketplace.

So, I'm very well aware of what matters in the NYC market. To the extent that you believe that I underplay UConn's impact in its home region, what I think is constantly and massively underplayed here a lot is just how much more college sports are followed elsewhere. It's not even in the same hemisphere. You may tell yourself that UConn has a good fan base with good TV ratings. And, if your sphere is comparing yourselves to Syracuse football or Rutgers basketball, you might be right. However, that's simply not the case compared to Kansas basketball or Oklahoma football (and that's both locally and nationally). Those are big-time brands with massive national fan bases and long histories that are contiguous to the Big Ten footprint. KU is even an AAU member while OU has almost the exact same level of graduate research activity (which is what the Big Ten cares more about than undergrad rankings) as UConn. So, if you don't take those two schools seriously as Big Ten targets, then I don't know what to tell you.

Look - I don't mean to be harsh. This isn't meant to knock UConn. There's a lot of value in the school academically, location-wise, and as a basketball brand. However, conference realignment decisions aren't made in a vacuum. You're competing with other schools that may have AAU membership, certain levels of national appeal, longer football histories, better football recruiting grounds, faster growing demographics, etc. Underestimating what other schools bring to the table while overestimating your own appeal WILL get you killed in conference realignment (and I absolutely believe that UConn underestimated Louisville in competing for that last ACC spot). The only way UConn has a chance to move up is to examine what schools like KU and OU (or even Louisville) are doing better than UConn at (whether it's football, still selling out stadiums even in down periods, etc.) and then eliminate those disadvantages to the best of your ability because assuming that what you have now is enough is simply not true (and that's only going to get exacerbated in the new Gang of Five world, as Rutgers, Syracuse, et. al at least had the old Big East's BCS AQ status to hang their hats on).

It's the same old stuff with you Frank. You did it again.

You talk about what the BTN charges, but neglect that SNY charges 2.5x in Ct. and the NYC market slice of what the BTN charges in Michigan. Why isn't BTN charging $2.5o per house in Michigan? Why isn't it as popular in Michigan as SNY is in CT and that slice of NYC? I mean, you're emphasizing what BTN could do in Kansas, and it can't even do in Michigan what SNY is already doing in Connecticut. Forgive me for finding that bizarre and totally absurd.

I don't even know why you're asking "How did UConn get left out?" It's been answered here a thousand times. UConn doesn't even qualify for the B1G on academics alone. As for the ACC, have you truly never read this article? http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basket...-blocking-uconns-path-to-acc?urn=ncaab,wp5260

Everything is there. In the past, you've claimed UConn fans have this mistaken belief that BC blocked UConn. We're not making it up. I don't know what to tell you. It's like you never read articles about BC blocking UConn. Seriously, as much as you know about realignment (a ton more than any of us), I honestly have doubts as to whether you're clued in on this BC-UConn story, because so much of what you've said in the past gives me suspicion that you don't.

As for UConn's national brand for bball, it's great. Great ratings, great interest. There are a ton of articles out there putting UConn among the top 6 bluebloods in both accomplishment and interest. And you say I'm comparing UConn to Rutgers basketball. Seriously? Frankly, that's a pathetic statement coming from you. UConn's tier 3/licensing take is $24.8 million a year (on the back of a contract with IMG for $8 million for licensing related to coaches shows and such on SNY). This is because of basketball mainly, and shows the power of the brand.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
29,349
Reaction Score
46,669
I agree the report seems to be developed on less than perfect resources, but I think it shows that no college football team is popular enough to carry NYC. If Rutgers struggles for football covereage in NYC, then the B1G may see NYC as a lost cause for football. If Rutgers (and PSU, OSU, Mich) carry NYC enough to carry the B1G network, then Uconn becomes less viable. Uconn needs Rutgers to be popular enough to create interest in NYC, but not popular enough to hold it down.

BTN will be shown on cable networks. The DMA question is less relevant. In fact, Manhattan alone has several competing cable systems. This is why the important thing to look at is the states. Half of UConn's state market (i.e. Conn. residents) is in NYC. but that big slice pays a ton for SNY so that it can watch UConn sports. Taken altogether, you have 1 million TV households in Conn. watching UConn sports, in one of the richest demograhics in the nation. Quite apart from whether NYC watches UConn football or bball (it obviously takes interest in the latter), look at the Conn. market alone. Compar it to other markets. Compare UConn bball nationally to other brands. That's the value. And that value is evident in UConn's tier 3/licensing figures which are much higher than anyone else's in the old BE. They are $15m more than Rutgers. So, how could a region that's got smaller numbers than Rutgers' region generate so much in revenues. Two answers: the level of intensity of the fans, and the power of the national brand.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
458
Guests online
2,598
Total visitors
3,056

Forum statistics

Threads
157,247
Messages
4,089,710
Members
9,982
Latest member
dogsdogsdog


Top Bottom