Putting the ball on the court at the end of a game

[ConwayGmck]

I wouldn't mind it if the NCAA passed a rule stating that intentionally placing the ball on the floor or throwing it up into the air during the last minute of a game before the clock expires creates an automatic turnover.

The reason being that it can be considered to be intentionally provocative which can quickly lead to loose ball fouls and injuries to players.

If the player isn't being provocative then why don't they just hand the ball over to the defense and give them possession so they can try to score in the last few seconds?

This is something that is an unspoken rule both in collegiate as well as professional basketball. If at the end of a game, with the score so determined that nothing can be done in the remaining few moments left to change the final outcome, typically what you see is the DEFENDING opponent - the one without the ball - "call off the dogs": they lower their hands to their side, and stop defending. When this occurs, that unspoken rule is that the OFFENDING opponent - the team that still has the ball - is NOT supposed to take advantage of that, and try to score any final baskets before the game clock hits zeros.

If they DO try that, well.....in the NBA there's been a number of dramatic face-offs and dust-ups from the defending opponent that that's a "no-no". So the understanding is that "we ain't gonna try to play against you anymore, so don't try to play against us". So when that happens, the team with the ball shouldn't worry about the defending team suddenly running up and trying to take the ball away and score with it, because it wouldn't matter anyways.

In those situations, that ALSO means the defending opponent isn't up on the offending opponent with the ball, defending him/her. In those scenarios, the player with the ball can't stand still without passing the ball to a teammate, shooting the ball, and/or dribbling the ball, for longer than 5 seconds. That is called the "Closely Guarded 5-Second Rule". But the player with the ball isn't violating that rule if the defending opponent is standing down and not defending him/her.

So - the player with the ball can just stand still and not shoot, not pass, and not dribble, and just let the game clock wind down to zeros - as long as it doesn't take so long that the SHOT clock expires - which then turns the ball over as a shot clock violation, and then the other team gets a final shot. But that's an embarrassing thing to have happen, if the opponent has already conceded the game and is allowing the game clock to expire. And they typically don't do that unless the time left on the game clock is LESS than any shot clock duration.

So to resume, if the player/team with the ball is no longer being defended by the opponent, and the opponent is conceding the outcome, and there is NO shot clock violation to take place......then that player/team with the ball could just stand there and hold the ball, stand there and dribble the ball, OR......they can just set the ball down on the court and walk away, joining their teammates on the sideline for the victory celebration. Nothing wrong with that at all, and its not disrespectful to the other team..........

 

[Amashutcha]

It's surprising to me that this is even a topic. I've seen this done many times in the local gym, high school, college, and by pros and never once thought it would ruffle any feathers.

 

[Ozimoto]

In my opinion, this is much ado about nothing. But, that's just me.

 

[diggerfoot]

This is something that is an unspoken rule both in collegiate as well as professional basketball. If at the end of a game, with the score so determined that nothing can be done in the remaining few moments left to change the final outcome, typically what you see is the DEFENDING opponent - the one without the ball - "call off the dogs": they lower their hands to their side, and stop defending. When this occurs, that unspoken rule is that the OFFENDING opponent - the team that still has the ball - is NOT supposed to take advantage of that, and try to score any final baskets before the game clock hits zeros.

If they DO try that, well.....in the NBA there's been a number of dramatic face-offs and dust-ups from the defending opponent that that's a "no-no". So the understanding is that "we ain't gonna try to play against you anymore, so don't try to play against us". So when that happens, the team with the ball shouldn't worry about the defending team suddenly running up and trying to take the ball away and score with it, because it wouldn't matter anyways.

In those situations, that ALSO means the defending opponent isn't up on the offending opponent with the ball, defending him/her. In those scenarios, the player with the ball can't stand still without passing the ball to a teammate, shooting the ball, and/or dribbling the ball, for longer than 5 seconds. That is called the "Closely Guarded 5-Second Rule". But the player with the ball isn't violating that rule if the defending opponent is standing down and not defending him/her.

So - the player with the ball can just stand still and not shoot, not pass, and not dribble, and just let the game clock wind down to zeros - as long as it doesn't take so long that the SHOT clock expires - which then turns the ball over as a shot clock violation, and then the other team gets a final shot. But that's an embarrassing thing to have happen, if the opponent has already conceded the game and is allowing the game clock to expire. And they typically don't do that unless the time left on the game clock is LESS than any shot clock duration.

So to resume, if the player/team with the ball is no longer being defended by the opponent, and the opponent is conceding the outcome, and there is NO shot clock violation to take place......then that player/team with the ball could just stand there and hold the ball, stand there and dribble the ball, OR......they can just set the ball down on the court and walk away, joining their teammates on the sideline for the victory celebration. Nothing wrong with that at all, and its not disrespectful to the other team..........

Yours is by far the best explanation in this thread and is another example of how the Boneyard is made richer by guests such as @ConwayGmck .

To assume putting the ball down is something akin to taunting requires a pretty dim view of both human intent and perception. Personally, I suspect putting the ball down rather than continue to stand around for x seconds was more a function of a lack of patience from a society where that has been on the increase.

 

[#12in21]

I took a look back at the end of game situation in number of games last season when we were up and running out the clock. In several cases the ball was placed on the floor with 2-3 seconds left after a bit of dribbling. IMO, the only reason any of us noted this in this case is because Nika placed it on the floor a bit earlier (I think about 5 seconds on the clock) and then Amari picked it up. I echo ConwayGmck post above. No disrespect meant or taken. The opponent had already stood down as had we, the clock was the only one still in game mode!

 

[HuskyNan]

In my opinion, this is much ado about nothing. But, that's just me.

I suspect it’s a generational thing. We do have a lot of fans that judge today’s players by what Red Auerbach would/wouldn’t do.

 

[OldSchooler]

I remember seeing one playmaker in the frontcourt, dribbling out the clock in a close game, suddenly hand the ball to his defender with a second or two remaining, at which point the defender was too shocked to do anything with it. Not sure where or when that was, but it might have been an old Harlem Globetrotters game.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I wouldn't mind it if the NCAA passed a rule stating that intentionally placing the ball on the floor or throwing it up into the air during the last minute of a game before the clock expires creates an automatic turnover.

The reason being that it can be considered to be intentionally provocative which can quickly lead to loose ball fouls and injuries to players.

If the player isn't being provocative then why don't they just hand the ball over to the defense and give them possession so they can try to score in the last few seconds?

You lost me. I put the ball on the floor and walk away. You decide to pick it up...who is going to foul you? In the brief seconds that are being considered here...99.9% of players, either side, fans, or even refs care about the ball. If you can't run out the possession clock...MAYBE the statistician cares because...that's a turnover.

 

[Boreifs]

I suspect it’s a generational thing. We do have a lot of fans that judge today’s players by what Red Auerbach would/wouldn’t do.

I don’t see coaches smoking cigars on the bench. Putting the ball on the floor isn’t even in the same category. As has already been stated; much ado about nothing.

 

[psconn]

Darn kids...

 

[sun]

You lost me. I put the ball on the floor and walk away. You decide to pick it up...who is going to foul you? In the brief seconds that are being considered here...99.9% of players, either side, fans, or even refs care about the ball. If you can't run out the possession clock...MAYBE the statistician cares because...that's a turnover.

Here's another example of an NCAA rule that's in effect when there's under 1 minute left in the game.

"For the NCAA a successful field goal with under one minute to play in the second half stops the clock"

Similarly, if a team voluntary gives up its possession of the ball with under 1 minute left in the game it should officially be a turnover.
The clock should immediately stop with the defense being awarded the ball to be inbounded.

Why?
To avoid any injuries due to a lose ball.
To not provoke the defense to go after the ball.
Because the NCAA doesn't allow taunting and provoking a loose ball foul is a form of taunting.
The alternative is for a ref to call a technical foul which they're allowed to.
A written rule would be better than an unwritten rule that awards the defense with both penalty shots & possession for a technical foul for taunting.

There's already a special rule for dealing with the clock being stopped when FG's made with under 1 minute left in the game.
Therefore I wouldn't mind if the NCAA passed a rule providing for the clock to be stopped and a turnover to be called if a team refuses to maintain their possession by putting the ball on the floor.
I think that it should become a dead ball because it's a provocative act just like taunting.
IMO it's a form of silent taunting.

I really don't know why players refuse to simply maintain possession of the ball.
But if they want to give up possession then that should be what happens.
Use the possession to eat up the clock or lose it.
Since BB is a game about possession of the ball then rules shouldn't allow possession to be flaunted.

flaunt - ​

display (something) ostentatiously, especially in order to provoke envy or admiration or to show defiance.

 

[MD#12Fan]

It's called etiquette. It exists in all sports, some more than others. Even sports like boxing has etiquette or unwritten rules. Even warfare has it.
Any golfers in the BY? Ever competed? Ever had an opponent "break an unwritten rule"? Like walking to the next tee while you are sweating over a 5 footer? What did you think about your opponent?
We're UConn! It means not only basketball excellence for close to 3 decades, but sportsmanship, beyond reproach. Heck with evolution. IMO it's a part of the handshake, not a part of the competition.
Stop with the thumbs down. How about a rebut or a comment. There is no "thumbs down" when it comes to sportsmanship. Sportsmanship even supersedes the competition itself.
Actually IMO I think teams should go back to playing the game out until the horn blows. You put Inez in with 45 seconds left and 25 of those seconds, she's dribbling out the clock. Dumb dumb. Give the subs a chance to play. I scored 23 points in my 3 years playing DIII basketball. Those minutes meant a lot to me. 10-14 hours of practice a week and all the other training and conditioning a player does, and you have to stand at half court and dribble the time out. Who thought of that?

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Here's another example of an NCAA rule that's in effect when there's under 1 minute left in the game.

"For the NCAA a successful field goal with under one minute to play in the second half stops the clock"

Similarly, if a team voluntary gives up its possession of the ball with under 1 minute left in the game it should officially be a turnover.
The clock should immediately stop with the defense being awarded the ball to be inbounded.

Why?
To avoid any injuries due to a lose ball.
To not provoke the defense to go after the ball.
Because the NCAA doesn't allow taunting and provoking a loose ball foul is a form of taunting.
The alternative is for a ref to call a technical foul which they're allowed to.
A written rule would be better than an unwritten rule that awards the defense with both penalty shots & possession for a technical foul for taunting.

There's already a special rule for dealing with the clock being stopped when FG's made with under 1 minute left in the game.
Therefore I wouldn't mind if the NCAA passed a rule providing for the clock to be stopped and a turnover to be called if a team refuses to maintain their possession by putting the ball on the floor.
I think that it should become a dead ball because it's a provocative act just like taunting.
IMO it's a form of silent taunting.

I really don't know why players refuse to simply maintain possession of the ball.
But if they want to give up possession then that should be what happens.
Use the possession to eat up the clock or lose it.
Since BB is a game about possession of the ball then rules shouldn't allow possession to be flaunted.

flaunt - ​

display (something) ostentatiously, especially in order to provoke envy or admiration or to show defiance.

Surrendering or conceding isn't flaunting. And again...who is there to injure when a ball is on the floor and it's essentially being conceded to you? I think the point you are missing is...no one cares about this possession. It's irrelevant and probably the reason there is no rule against...leaving the ball. It's not that big of a deal.

 

[Zinethar]

To me this is much ado about nothing. To me it indicates the team with the ball has stopped playing (I've never seen this happen unless the other team has stopped guarding). Let the handshake line begin much like the end of football games. it indicates that our possession extends beyond the end of the game and we will not be running our offense and you have indicated you are not running defense. The game is essentially over. Lets go have a beer (or coke or whatever). In some basketball games I've seen the coaches start the handshake line while the dribbling was still going on.

 

[huskeynut]

Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. People are too easily offended today.

 

[sun]

Surrendering or conceding isn't flaunting. And again...who is there to injure when a ball is on the floor and it's essentially being conceded to you? I think the point you are missing is...no one cares about this possession. It's irrelevant and probably the reason there is no rule against...leaving the ball. It's not that big of a deal.

ostentatiously -​

in a pretentious or showy way designed to impress.

I'm not impressed when UConn does it nor are a lot of other people including some fans and probably some of the players too.
Didn't you see Amari DeBerry pick up the ball with about 3 seconds still left on the clock?
Apparently it didn't make any sense to her either or else she would have walked away.
Refs can also choose to be arbitrary and we all act like we want to be refs.
IMO the issue is a matter of conscience, personal opinion and a grey area.

grey area-​

an ill-defined situation or area of activity not readily conforming to a category or set of rules.

 

[HuskyNan]

To paraphrase @ConwayGmck , it’s a show of good sportsmanship. The team with the big lead is showing that it won’t try to run up the score after the game result has been decided.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

ostentatiously -​

in a pretentious or showy way designed to impress.

I'm not impressed when UConn does it nor are a lot of other people including some fans and probably some of the players too.
Didn't you see Amari DeBerry pick up the ball?
Apparently it didn't make any sense to her either or else she would have walked away.
Refs can also choose to be arbitrary and we all act like we want to be refs.
IMO the issue is a matter of conscience, personal opinion and a grey area.

grey area-​

an ill-defined situation or area of activity not readily conforming to a category or set of rules.

So when Usain Bolt pulls up 20 yards from the finish line...he's being intentionally ostentatious? Maybe he's being gracious? I don't know, but it doesn't affect the obvious outcome.

 

[my2cents]

My 2 cents.

• If the refs (of a particular game) want the ball handed to them, then inform the teams PRIOR to the game. There is no rule against placing the ball on the floor...regardless of intent.
• I've seen similar actions by players during the game where they don't directly give the ball to the ref usually in a non-verbal protest against a call. Or they will roll it back in the general direction of the ref or barely roll or toss it. I'm sure there has been a tender ego or two that has T'd up the player. IMO...if there is no clear rule or it's a subjective ruling....issue a warning first.
• I have interpreted players putting the ball down on the floor (at the game's end) as a sportsman-like gesture...we're done attacking. The game is over. If you want the ball...you can have it. I have seen incidents where the losing team is trying to take the ball aggressively with seconds left...no chance in hades of winning...and unnecessary contact occurs.

Just for the record, thats not my post.

 

[my2cents]

My post:
Can these back and forths become any more ridiculous?
Is it a technical on the home team if Martians land on the court during a game, disrupting the game?? Just asking...

 

[meyers7]

It's called etiquette. It exists in all sports, some more than others. Even sports like boxing has etiquette or unwritten rules. Even warfare has it.
Any golfers in the BY? Ever competed? Ever had an opponent "break an unwritten rule"? Like walking to the next tee while you are sweating over a 5 footer? What did you think about your opponent?
We're UConn! It means not only basketball excellence for close to 3 decades, but sportsmanship, beyond reproach. Heck with evolution. IMO it's a part of the handshake, not a part of the competition.
Stop with the thumbs down. How about a rebut or a comment. There is no "thumbs down" when it comes to sportsmanship. Sportsmanship even supersedes the competition itself.
Actually IMO I think teams should go back to playing the game out until the horn blows. You put Inez in with 45 seconds left and 25 of those seconds, she's dribbling out the clock. Dumb dumb. Give the subs a chance to play. I scored 23 points in my 3 years playing DIII basketball. Those minutes meant a lot to me. 10-14 hours of practice a week and all the other training and conditioning a player does, and you have to stand at half court and dribble the time out. Who thought of that?

You're right, it's called etiquette. Just like the Victory Formation and taking a knee. Putting the ball down or dribbling out the clock is etiquette, sportsmanship. To not do that just proves that a team is an @ss. Similar to the people who complain about putting the ball down when the game is over.

 

[meyers7]

My post:
Can these back and forths become any more ridiculous?
Is it a technical on the home team if Martians land on the court during a game, disrupting the game?? Just asking...

I don't believe one was called in Space Jam.

 

[Centerstream]

Here's another example of an NCAA rule that's in effect when there's under 1 minute left in the game.

Similarly, if a team voluntary gives up its possession of the ball with under 1 minute left in the game it should officially be a turnover.
The clock should immediately stop with the defense being awarded the ball to be inbounded.

How can it be a turnover if the ball is still in play and is "live" but no one has control of it? In order to be a turnover, the other team gets possession.
Kinda like when the offense rolls the ball up the court after a made basket just to save a second or two. They don't have possession and it is not called a turnover.

 

[MD#12Fan]

You're right, it's called etiquette. Just like the Victory Formation and taking a knee. Putting the ball down or dribbling out the clock is etiquette, sportsmanship. To not do that just proves that a team is an @ss. Similar to the people who complain about putting the ball down when the game is over.

I gave you why teams should play it out and you respond like that. Weak. I talked about my own experience and extrapolated that to a player on UConn.
If everyone knows that the end of the game is an opportunity for bench players to get experience, then that is the understanding. Believe it or not, in a blowout situation, choose your margin to be respectful, maybe 30, coaches can even talk to each other about what they might want to get out of an end of game period of time.
Everyone hoots about a scenario like this, but one time my college coach called timeout during "turkey time" to organize us. Obviously I remember it, 45 years later. It meant that we meant something.
Get out of your "tunnel vision". Try to see different perspectives.

 

[sun]

How can it be a turnover if the ball is still in play and is "live" but no one has control of it? In order to be a turnover, the other team gets possession.
Kinda like when the offense rolls the ball up the court after a made basket just to save a second or two. They don't have possession and it is not called a turnover.

The NCAA would simply need to define the special circumstances covered by the proposed rule using more than one sentence if needed.
Rolling the ball up court to save time isn't the same as ending the game by putting the ball on the floor wasting time.