Providence Post Game Thread

[navery12]

One thing I've learned is that Dan Hurley has too short leash of a leash for every player HW611 likes (ex: Jordan Hawkins, Jayden Ross) and too long of a leash for every player he hates (ex: Alex Karaban). Pretty sure we'd have won 5 championships the last 4 years if he just listened to HW611

 

[QDOG5]

There was a play probably around 8 minutes to go in the second half. I'm pretty sure PC was in a zone. Ross caught the ball just inside the free throw line. He was wide open and should just shoot. He was unsure so he dribbled closer to the basket and took a tougher shot and missed. Hurley benched him immediately. He's overthinking instead of playing.

 

[Stew Crew]

One more thing about Brian Fair. I saw his junior year he was pretty much fighting for minutes with Kevin Ollie, Doron Shaffer, and Ray Allen.

But he still averaged 7 points in 12 mpg. I’m not sure I’d call that struggling the same way we see with Ross and Stew. It just seemed like there was a lot of competition for minutes at guard.

Scoring was never Fair's issue. He never became more than a one-dimensional player. He never developed into a good defender or passer and wasn't a great ball handler for a guard. He was an assassin, a poor man's Rashad Anderson.

Getting back to Hurley vs. Calhoun. It more nuanced than how long a player sits after getting pulled. If Calhoun pulled you, you were likely to get the cold shoulder or get screamed at heading back to the bench. Hurley tends to use it as a teaching opportunity. I sit about 15 rows behind the uconn bench. When Ross got pulled, Hurley talked to him about the poor pass to Reibe. He does that a lot. I'm not saying one is better than the other. A lot depends on the relationship between the coach, the player, and the team. I don't think anyone can deny Hurley's intense loyalty to his players. I'm not sure you can say that about Calhoun, especially late in his tenure. It seemed he would bring in big recruiting classes. The kids that swam stayed. The kids that sank were encouraged to leave.

 

[Ewekon]

We looked better on defense with Reibe on the floor tonight. If he plays like he did tonight he’s going to be a problem for many teams going forward.

Maybe a Creighton game give a little run to twin towers. Yes, I know foul danger; but love to see Eric take 2 or 3 what will be wide open triples with Reed getting attention down low.

You know he wants to...

 

[alphasigko]

And sometimes we played like our heads were on Venus

Or somewhere else.

 

[Excalibur]

Remember when Calhoun called a TO :30 seconds into the game against Kentucky to take out his best player in senior Jerome Dyson for… Darnell Beverly?

Don’t worry guys. He got back in 3:00 minutes later. For those not remembering how this usually went.

You're missing the point. While Calhoun was willing to pull and chew out his stars in a way that Hurley tends not to be, he did not have long leashes with role players. In fact, he used them as motivation for those stars. He'd pull Dyson for Beverly, but he wasn't leaving Beverly out there if he was costing us

Playing Donnell Beverly for 9 minutes a game = trusting him
Playing Jayden Ross for 16 minutes a game = not trusting him

Got it . . .

 

[alphasigko]

He has trouble securing the ball which was sort of masked last year but is becoming a problem this year. He is susceptible to defenders swiping at the ball when he makes his initial post move and when he attempts to secure rebounds. The ball security issues are a surprise given his size and strength.

Whenever he dribbles more than once, he generally loses it or gets into a position where he throws up a circus shot hoping that a foul will be called. A lot of good that does when he shoots 30% from the line.

 

[alphasigko]

Reed is the least of our problems…..

He is a huge problem at the foul line

 

[superjohn]

Ross played 22+ minutes in 5 of the first 6 games this season… (and the only he didn’t was because he fouled out in 12 minutes).

Ross is averaging 10.3 ppg, 1.7 offensive rebounds, 1.3 assists per 40 minutes. That's horrible offensive production for a small forward.

Jaylin is averaging 10.2 ppg, 1.6 offensive rebounds, 2.7 assists per 40.

To put in perspective how inactive both of them are on the offensive end of the floor. These are Antric Klaiber's per 40 points, offensive rebounds, and assists his junior season...

8.8 ppg, 3.4 offensive rebounds, .8 assists.

Hurley was pleading with them to make more plays on offense in his postgame. He's been pleading with them the past two seasons to do something on that end of the floor. They've had two season worth of chances and they will continue to get chances because we need them this season. They simply need to start producing.

 

[Gurleyman]

One thing I've learned is that Dan Hurley has too short leash of a leash for every player HW611 likes (ex: Jordan Hawkins, Jayden Ross) and too long of a leash for every player he hates (ex: Alex Karaban). Pretty sure we'd have won 5 championships the last 4 years if he just listened to HW611

He once sat Karaban from the 10 minute mark to the 3 minute mark in the second half because he wasn't playing well, and Stewart was giving us a lift.

That was a Big East Championship game. Trophy was on the line and everything.

Smith was kinda losing minutes in a hurry. His minutes were 4-13-8-13-6 in the last five games (8.8 minutes a night). He played 30 yesterday. Some of it was Demary getting 2 in the first half. But he got in and shot well, gave us seven assists and no turnovers, plus a couple defensive plays. So his minutes skyrockted.

This isn't deep. If you do your job well and you produce, you play more. If you don't, you don't. Ross didn't even really have to score - he could have played more than 14 minutes yesterday if he just guarded people one-on-one well, but Vaaks was eating him alive.

Not sure how much more leash people want. Maybe against Creighton he shuts down a hot hand and we can't take him off the floor and it'll be his turn to play closer to 30. I hope so. Or I hope he has a couple days like that. We need all hands on deck to reach our ceiling, and if he's shutting down someone in an Elite Eight game, we may need him to play a lot - and ideally he could be trusted with the ball in his hands or shooting a big shot too.

 

[Punkbo]

I think the silver lining from Mullin’s absence will be the realization that Silas and Mal on the court at the same time is a real option for 5-10 minutes per game even when Mullins returns.

Reibe had a nice game, but I still believe Reed for 25 minutes and Reibe for 15 minutes is the right option at center unless Reed is in foul trouble. I’ll be shocked if Reed doesn’t continue to get better as the season progresses. This coaching staff is too good to watch him underachieve. There’s no reason why he can’t make more FTs and become a better distributor out of the post.

 

[HW611]

Again, I'm sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about. Marcus White was a rebounding machine PF. You would know that if you actually saw those teams play. So you're kinda proving that you have no idea what JC did or didn't do. You have no grounds to talk about JCs sub patterns or talk about the "trust" he employed when you don't know who these guys are.

Straight up... Did you watch Hilton years one through three? Just answer that. Don't go to sportsreference and quote stats. Did you see it or not? Again, if the answer is no, you need to stop. Hilton would be pulled every time he made a mistake. Every time. There was no let's let Hilton play through his mistakes notion. Hilton was a total project who had some untapped potential, and JC tough loved him for three years.

I saw those games and didn’t notice Marcus White much because Josh Boone and Charlie V was the rotation at the 4 in 04 and 05 and then they came back and added Rudy Gay in 05. Who did you want Calhoun to take minutes from in the rotation to give more time to White too? And this is the nuance. He is 3rd in the depth chart at his position. He is not a direct backup that is needed like Ross and Stew.

I remember watching Hilton play plenty in 04. He just also had a NPOY candidate in front of him so yeah, of course he didn’t have a lot of leash when one of the best players of the century played the same position he did. And it’s not like he had to, if Calhoun really didn’t trust him he could’ve played Boone and Charlie all his minutes. But he continued to put him out there. He even played in the Final Four against Duke.

I’ve been watching UConn basketball since the 2000s. These cases you are naming are largely guys who got passed over by better players and were 4th at their position. We aren’t talking about players we needed to step up who didn’t succeed.

With Hurley this conversation usually revolves around NECESSARY rotation pieces to get guys a breather. Not 4th or 5th options at their own position.

 

[Mr. French]

I saw those games and didn’t notice Marcus White much because Josh Boone and Charlie V was the rotation at the 4 in 04 and 05 and then they came back and added Rudy Gay in 05. Who did you want Calhoun to take minutes from in the rotation to give more time to White too? And this is the nuance. He is 3rd in the depth chart at his position. He is not a direct backup that is needed like Ross and Stew.

I remember watching Hilton play plenty in 04. He just also had a NPOY candidate in front of him so yeah, of course he didn’t have a lot of leash when one of the best players of the century played the same position he did. And it’s not like he had to, if Calhoun really didn’t trust him he could’ve played Boone and Charlie all his minutes. But he continued to put him out there. He even played in the Final Four against Duke.

I’ve been watching UConn basketball since the 2000s. These cases you are naming are largely guys who got passed over by better players and were 4th at their position. We aren’t talking about players we needed to step up who didn’t succeed.

With Hurley this conversation usually revolves around NECESSARY rotation pieces to get guys a breather. Not 4th or 5th options at their own position.

But you just mentioned Marcus White being behind Anderson and Brown.

So which post was a lie?

I guess that backup didn't need minutes, but this backup does. Because you say so. Even though this backup DOES get minutes. Your points are so all over the place you confuse yourself.

 

[superjohn]

Again, I'm sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about. Marcus White was a rebounding machine PF. You would know that if you actually saw those teams play. So you're kinda proving that you have no idea what JC did or didn't do. You have no grounds to talk about JCs sub patterns or talk about the "trust" he employed when you don't know who these guys are.

Straight up... Did you watch Hilton years one through three? Just answer that. Don't go to sportsreference and quote stats. Did you see it or not? Again, if the answer is no, you need to stop. Hilton would be pulled every time he made a mistake. Every time. There was no let's let Hilton play through his mistakes notion. Hilton was a total project who had some untapped potential, and JC tough loved him for three years.

He outed himself.

 

[Palatine]

Scoring was never Fair's issue. He never became more than a one-dimensional player. He never developed into a good defender or passer and wasn't a great ball handler for a guard. He was an assassin, a poor man's Rashad Anderson.

Fair owned the Carrier Dome.

 

[boog204]

I saw those games and didn’t notice Marcus White much because Josh Boone and Charlie V was the rotation at the 4 in 04 and 05 and then they came back and added Rudy Gay in 05. Who did you want Calhoun to take minutes from in the rotation to give more time to White too? And this is the nuance. He is 3rd in the depth chart at his position. He is not a direct backup that is needed like Ross and Stew.

I remember watching Hilton play plenty in 04. He just also had a NPOY candidate in front of him so yeah, of course he didn’t have a lot of leash when one of the best players of the century played the same position he did. And it’s not like he had to, if Calhoun really didn’t trust him he could’ve played Boone and Charlie all his minutes. But he continued to put him out there. He even played in the Final Four against Duke.

I’ve been watching UConn basketball since the 2000s. These cases you are naming are largely guys who got passed over by better players and were 4th at their position. We aren’t talking about players we needed to step up who didn’t succeed.

With Hurley this conversation usually revolves around NECESSARY rotation pieces to get guys a breather. Not 4th or 5th options at their own position.

Marcus White was 03. He’s responsible for one of the most infamous plays in our tourney history. Remember that? He was injured in 04 and transferred 05.

You’re literally using your own argument against yourself with Hilton. He was a project. He was a 10mpg stater until JC got sick and Blaney started playing Marcus White. Remember the guy battling for 2G minutes with Denham and Mike McKay.

This whole ridiculous argument is was formed on how Stew and Ross don’t get a leash bc in part they have better players in front of them. And now you’re saying all of my examples were bench guys who didn’t get a leash bc they had better players in front of them. I’m out. Good luck with your battle.

 

[bendm]

HW611 joined the board last August and I had him on ignore by September. Please consider it.

 

[DW1361]

Having nothing to do with the current debate, I will attempt to bring up an observation about the actual game……

It is great Malachi had a decent offensive game last night. The 30 minutes were well deserved, but Providence should have taken advantage of the mismatches on defense. Malachi mostly was guarding a much taller forward, but he was only involved in a handful of plays on defense. He was burned three times on drives to the basket and failed to cover twice his man from three. PC should have taken advantage of that mismatch, which would have forced either Stew or Ross to play more and perhaps PC pulls off the upset. As it went, Malachi being able to be on the floor was instrumental for why we scored 87 points, despite no fgs for over 4 minutes in the first half, 3 minutes in the second half and poor foul shooting.

So let that sink in a little. There was a lot that went right last night. I think that may have been overlooked by some here.

 

[Jhuskie89]

Will a loss or two shape this team better?

 

[Deepster]

Here’s my issue with where this thread has gone and the sentiment in general.

Dan Hurley is not Jim Calhoun. And, at this point in his career, Hurley is actually more successful so maybe we just let him coach the 20-1 team the way he wants.

 

[RuffRuff]

One thing I've learned is that Dan Hurley has too short leash of a leash for every player HW611 likes (ex: Jordan Hawkins, Jayden Ross) and too long of a leash for every player he hates (ex: Alex Karaban). Pretty sure we'd have won 5 championships the last 4 years if he just listened to HW611

Least we not forget, we would have won the 2024 title by an even higher margin if we had pushed Newton out and brought AJX back. That team would have been much more fun and even better, and it would have gotten AJX ready for the NBA.

 

[HW611]

You’re literally using your own argument against yourself with Hilton.

I didn’t know Karaban was one of the best players this century who actually played close to perfect basketball when in. At a position where only one person can play at a time.

This is what I’m talking about with Karaban’s treatment. He is not Okafor. But you all will put him in that same light as far as how needed he is.

 

[Gurleyman]

I saw those games and didn’t notice Marcus White much because Josh Boone and Charlie V was the rotation at the 4 in 04 and 05 and then they came back and added Rudy Gay in 05. Who did you want Calhoun to take minutes from in the rotation to give more time to White too? And this is the nuance. He is 3rd in the depth chart at his position. He is not a direct backup that is needed like Ross and Stew.

I remember watching Hilton play plenty in 04. He just also had a NPOY candidate in front of him so yeah, of course he didn’t have a lot of leash when one of the best players of the century played the same position he did. And it’s not like he had to, if Calhoun really didn’t trust him he could’ve played Boone and Charlie all his minutes. But he continued to put him out there. He even played in the Final Four against Duke.

I’ve been watching UConn basketball since the 2000s. These cases you are naming are largely guys who got passed over by better players and were 4th at their position. We aren’t talking about players we needed to step up who didn’t succeed.

With Hurley this conversation usually revolves around NECESSARY rotation pieces to get guys a breather. Not 4th or 5th options at their own position.

White redshirted in 2004 with a back injury. Only played 4 games.

Then he had surgery in the offseason and never got back in the rotation again - be it lingering back issues or not being good enough. In 2005, Boone was the starting 5, with CV starting at the 4 and Ed Nelson backing him up. White transferred to Purdue at the end of the semester in December.

We don't need much from Ross and Stew. When we have all our pieces in place, they are our eighth and ninth men. Smith-Demary-Mullins-Ball can split the 1-2-3 minutes four ways, Reed-Reibe split at the 5, and Stew just has to spell AK a few minutes a night. Whatever Ross gives us is a bonus.

 

[AllHusky]

Sounds like a plan. Hope it survives contact with the enemy!! 😁

 

[HooperScooper]

I don't even know how you would do it because Hurley never does it and I typically really don't like the idea of double bigs but I kind of wish we would see Reibe out there with Reed for a few minutes in these games against lesser opponents when we're stuggling. Eric is a starting level player and his style of play isn't redundant with Reed's.

Hurley said earlier this season he was going to do it. I don't think we've seen it for even a minute since then.