Providence Post Game Thread

[Iluvsuebird]

i

When I watch our squad against other teams, I'm not sure our talent advantage jumps out. With no Mullins, it's not like we have first round picks swirling out there. PC has some solid talent.

We made certain assumptions about the players. For example, we assumed Mullins would play and the kid has had two injury setbacks that have derailed his momentum. We assumed Reid would be a full time bear. He has been 75% bear. We assumed Solo would be Solo and he has not been Solo from 3. We assumed that Stewart would make a jump from last year. He has not. Same with Ross. But it is becoming apparent to me that if we are going to win the natty, it isn't going to be because of the offense. The only way to win the natty is by having a dominant defense.

 

[RuffRuff]

i


We made certain assumptions about the players. For example, we assumed Mullins would play and the kid has had two injury setbacks that have derailed his momentum. We assumed Reid would be a full time bear. He has been 75% bear. We assumed Solo would be Solo and he has not been Solo from 3. We assumed that Stewart would make a jump from last year. He has not. Same with Ross. But it is becoming apparent to me that if we are going to win the natty, it isn't going to be because of the offense. The only way to win the natty is by having a dominant defense.

Very true - when you go into a year, you mentally optimize the pieces in seeing the vision. I know I hoped Tarris would be more dominant than he's been. I really haven't seen much "dominance" out of him, along with the usual blunders he tends to make.

 

[Inyatkin]

Today I Learned Marcus White was behind Denham and Rashad on the depth chart.

It's just painful at this point

 

[noelle]

the only way to win the natty is to restore the effectiveness of the scheming that's been there for the past few years. for whatever reason it's just not been the same this year. the shot quality/mix has been there but not the actual production. we can blame bad shooting, bad officiating and just slowness of decisionmaking/decisiveness of the movements. You can maybe fix 1.5 out of these and assume the officiating will allow more movement once we are out of the big east games.

 

[HW611]

On your first reply, you are, imo, very wrong in your assertion. I used the "big" names to counteract your AK leash ridiculousness. JC benched Brian Fair a million times. Look up his career. Fair always had big scoring games when JC was sick or ejected, and Howie coached. Antric Klaiber a million times. Cyrulik. Marcus White never played a second until Blaney took over for a period. Remember Marcus Cox? He got nine seconds to prove himself, made mistakes, got in trouble, and transferred five minutes later. Murray Williams was allowed one mistake and then was out. For four years. Hilton was allowed one mistake before being pulled for three years. Do you remember Ryan Thompson? We were hard up with injuries, and he got some minutes. Hit a 3, was heady. Then made a mistake and was benched for the rest of the game and barely played again. I mean, we could go on and on and on and on. I'm sorry, I really don't think you remember JC very well if you think he trusted everyone and gave them all a leash.

And, didn't Dan Hurley literally JUST bench Solo for his play? C'mon man. I also remember Newton being sat down a bit in his first year here. He only played 18 minutes against St. John's, with Diarra taking 20, and sat a bit against Seton Hall, playing only 19 with Diarra taking 21 with Hass being lauded for his toughness in that game vs. Newton. So, yeah, I do think Dan Hurley has benched his top players when they're playing badly. He just did it, and he did it with Newton as well.

The other factor is, you bench AK, so Stew comes in and does what exactly? He's not a good rebounder, and he's inconsistent as a scorer and defender. He is a good passer. But if he's shying away from the ball, what's the point? If we had another productive 4 type, maybe we'd see less of AK when he's struggling. But the drop off to Stew is vast. The irony is, Stew has as much, if not more, pure skill than AK. But the rest is on him.

Lastly, maybe, just maybe, trust that Dan Hurley kinda knows what he's doing? Last year, people were freaking out that Abraham or Nowell or even freakin' Yousouff weren't being given a chance. How are they all doing now? Nowell and Yousouff are playing 12 and 8 minutes respectively for their step down teams. Abraham, while still having a lot of potential, is not exactly tearing it up for GTown.

One more thing about Brian Fair. I saw his junior year he was pretty much fighting for minutes with Kevin Ollie, Doron Shaffer, and Ray Allen.

But he still averaged 7 points in 12 mpg. I’m not sure I’d call that struggling the same way we see with Ross and Stew. It just seemed like there was a lot of competition for minutes at guard.

 

[HooperScooper]

Played 29 total minutes all year before yesterday. Scored 6 total points. 1-3 FG on the season (all three point shots)

16 minutes yesterday, nails 2 threes and hits a FT for 7 points

But I’m not upset. Don’t know anything about the kid but he plays the right way. 100% heart and effort. Picking up half court/full court every possession, hits his shots when his team needed. Happy that he had that moment (I’d be less happy if we lost of course)

According to Borges's Register article he's a walk on.

 

[UCann]

One way or another, this can’t continue. Either we start playing better or we’re losing some games. But we’re not going to win ugly forever

Been doing it for 3 months - only need to do it for like 2 more. Don’t see an issue.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Deandre is a topic that’s already been discussed on this board. Calhoun gave him all the opportunity in the world and he wasn’t ready for it. He played 25+ minutes in 4 of his first 5 games of his career.

It is not the same thing that we’re discussing. But I understand nuance his hard for some of you all.

Ross played 22+ minutes in 5 of the first 6 games this season… (and the only he didn’t was because he fouled out in 12 minutes).

 

[RuffRuff]

One more thing about Brian Fair. I saw his junior year he was pretty much fighting for minutes with Kevin Ollie, Doron Shaffer, and Ray Allen.

But he still averaged 7 points in 12 mpg. I’m not sure I’d call that struggling the same way we see with Ross and Stew. It just seemed like there was a lot of competition for minutes at guard.

I'm curious on how Brian Fair's minutes are in any way relevant 30 years later. This convo is officially next level weird. Not sure what the point of comparing a couple bench players today to one of the late 90s. Is that the blueprint? Diff coach, diff era, diff system.

I wonder how Dom Perno subbed. Anything to be learned and applied there? Someone needs to get Hurley that info.

 

[Mr. French]

Ross played 22+ minutes in 5 of the first 6 games this season… (and the only he didn’t was because he fouled out in 12 minutes).

The nuances are too difficult for you to understand.

 

[HW611]

Ross played 22+ minutes in 5 of the first 6 games this season… (and the only he didn’t was because he fouled out in 12 minutes).

And he scored at least 8 points in 4 out of those 6 games looking capable offensively. Just added to my point.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

And he scored at least 8 points in 4 out of those 6 games looking capable offensively. Just added to my point.

Your point was that DeAndre got plenty of opportunity from Calhoun before being a much lesser part of the rotation and therefore, Deandre got more opportunity under Calhoun than Ross has under Hurley. Deandre averaged 7.2 PPG during the stretch you referenced, while Ross was at 6.8 PPG during the one I referenced. You are so far down the rabbit hole at this point, I’m not even sure you can keep straight what points you’re trying to make.

 

[RuffRuff]

Your point was that DeAndre got plenty of opportunity from Calhoun before being a much lesser part of the rotation and therefore, Deandre got more opportunity under Calhoun than Ross has under Hurley. Deandre averaged 7.2 PPG during the stretch you referenced, while Ross was at 6.8 PPG during the one I referenced. You are so far down the rabbit hole at this point, I’m not even sure you can keep straight what points you’re trying to make.

The primary point itself is OOC. We have a 5 star in the position he wants Ross to get 25 minutes, while sharing it with Stew. Once Mullins is back, hopefully Creighton, assuming Solo is at the two, it's really only about 15 minutes each max for those two. We're going to let Mullins ride pine for Ross?

 

[HW611]

Your point was that DeAndre got plenty of opportunity from Calhoun before being a much lesser part of the rotation and therefore, Deandre got more opportunity under Calhoun than Ross has under Hurley. Deandre averaged 7.2 PPG during the stretch you referenced, while Ross was at 6.8 PPG during the one I referenced. You are so far down the rabbit hole at this point, I’m not even sure you can keep straight what points you’re trying to make.

You’re misunderstanding the point. But I’m for sure not wasting time clarifying it to you.

 

[homunculus]

If your baseline thinking is that early season games don't matter, you'll use any excuse to get there.

And it's true, we don't look as good lately as we did then. Those games still happened.

Good early season performances no longer matter by January, but poor early season performances like Maui never lose their importance and will be talked about until April. Apparently.

 

[Excalibur]

Not st the

Not at the expense of the team winning a game.

It hasn’t been.

 

[prankster]

"A "home game" in sports is a match played at a team's own venue (stadium, arena, court, field) where they are the host, allowing them to play in front of their local fans and familiar surroundings, often leading to a "home-field advantage" over the visiting or away team.

Key aspects

• Location: Played at the team's designated "home ground" or facility."

I agree. Just because your fan base travels well, doesn't make the venue a home site.

If that were the case, arguably, Providence-Away could be a home game for us every few years.

 

[Lafayette]

And he scored at least 8 points in 4 out of those 6 games looking capable offensively. Just added to my point.

but games vs NHVN, UML, Columbia, and Bryant let most players look good. Literally only the BYU game was mentionable. how did Ross play vs Kansas, Arizona, Florida, or any of the last 7 games in general? PS - he fouled out of BYU and Columbia.

 

[boog204]

I appreciate you actually having real examples and talking points around this than other posters usual snark with nothing behind it.

The reason Calhoun was able to bench his star players and hold them accountable the way he did is because he trusted the guy behind him to be able to play. Hurley doesn’t do that with his guys because he doesn’t trust the guys behind him to do that. It’s why we can identify a new NBA/HOF/AA in almost every generation of JC’s tenure because he held stars accountable enough to genuinely get better. Meanwhile Karaban still looks the same as he does as a sophomore and can do anything he wants on the court without repercussions. Because he gets babied.

I’m not going to lie to you (because I have no reason to and act like I know something I don’t for the sake of board ego), I don’t know most of the names you listed. If they played in the 90s I pretty much didn’t watch them. I do know Marcus White and his issue was that Dehnam Brown and Rashad Anderson were better than him. He wasn’t going to play guard minutes behind Ben Gordon or Taliek Brown and he wasn’t taking PF minutes from Josh Boone, Charlie, or Hilton. The next year he had to compete with those same guys except Rudy Gay came. He transferred. His opportunity was about him being buried on the depth chart.

With Hilton you’re talking about a guy who started 22 games his freshman year. Again, another case where JC gives a guy the opportunity and rope to prove himself and it’s up to him to sink or swim. He was a sinker and next year two freshman came in who were better and as a junior he had a bench role where he received plenty of opportunity playing almost the same amount of minutes as a freshman Donovan Clingan. At a center position where minutes are limited because you can’t play other position like a guard or forward can.

With Ross and Stew we are talking about two guys we NEED having this kind of leash. We aren’t talking about players who are #3 at the position on the depth chart but two direct backups that if we can’t trust, that means we’re running our starters into the ground.

I actually appreciated Hurley benching Solo and commented on that. So we’re aligned there. My one observation on that is how it might've been confusing for him because of the vets before him he probably saw play with impunity as long as we won.

The point in benching someone is not “this other player is better and will help us win more”. It’s about sending a message that the way you’re playing is not acceptable and you need to do better. When Calhoun benched Dyson in that clip it wasn’t because he thought Beverly was going to contribute things he didn’t. And it’s not like he left him on the bench long, he was back in 3 minutes later.

Again, I'm sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about. Marcus White was a rebounding machine PF. You would know that if you actually saw those teams play. So you're kinda proving that you have no idea what JC did or didn't do. You have no grounds to talk about JCs sub patterns or talk about the "trust" he employed when you don't know who these guys are.

Straight up... Did you watch Hilton years one through three? Just answer that. Don't go to sportsreference and quote stats. Did you see it or not? Again, if the answer is no, you need to stop. Hilton would be pulled every time he made a mistake. Every time. There was no let's let Hilton play through his mistakes notion. Hilton was a total project who had some untapped potential, and JC tough loved him for three years.

 

[boog204]

One more thing about Brian Fair. I saw his junior year he was pretty much fighting for minutes with Kevin Ollie, Doron Shaffer, and Ray Allen.

But he still averaged 7 points in 12 mpg. I’m not sure I’d call that struggling the same way we see with Ross and Stew. It just seemed like there was a lot of competition for minutes at guard.

Dude, and again... How many games did you see Brian Fair play? Tell me anything about Brian Fair that doesn't involve a visit to sportsreference. It's time to start sitting some plays out here. Seriously. You have zero. ZERO understanding of the "nuance" between Fair and JC and the level of "trust" that existed there. So just stop. Donny, you're out of your element.

 

[Scottobot]

Fwiw. Charlie got 25 minutes a game his sophomore year.

Karaban hasn’t averaged under 30 since his sophomore year and averaged 28 as a freshman lol.

Karaban is not this super indispensable player man.

I don’t think Charlie had good enough cardio to play more minutes.

 

[Inyatkin]

Guy who thinks Marcus White was a wing and can't spell Doron Sheffer is, in my view, safe to discount.

 

[Scottobot]

One more thing about Brian Fair. I saw his junior year he was pretty much fighting for minutes with Kevin Ollie, Doron Shaffer, and Ray Allen.

But he still averaged 7 points in 12 mpg. I’m not sure I’d call that struggling the same way we see with Ross and Stew. It just seemed like there was a lot of competition for minutes at guard.

Brian Fair was a top 35 recruit, almost a mcdonalds. Stewart and Ross were 80-100 ranked players.

Reibe is a top 30 recruit and the type of player should lean on more, and that is exactly what happened last night

 

[freescooter]

So we are such a well oiled machine that we can just slow play the season? This team was an 8 seed last year. Toying around with the BE then going up against real teams is not what I would call a good way to set up for the real season. Hurley runs intense practices and expects kids to take that to the floor. I guess we'll find out soon enough @Creigton (who's getting pumped by Marquette right now) and @StJ.

They are not going to be an 8 seed now based on what they have done to date. I’m sort of coming to the idea that this team is good but not great. Played really well, maybe a little over their heads, against top competition. But now are reverting to being a good team. I wouldn’t be totally shocked if they end up losing a couple and getting a 2 seed then going out in maybe the Sweet 16 or Elite 8. I don’t know. Weaknesses I see are Ross and Stewart inability to score, foul shooting is a problem. Might as well foul Reed. He’ll get about .75 points on average. But even DeMsry missed last night with a chance to put the game away. Sloppy lazy passing is another problem. How many did we through away last night? Not so much that we do it, it’s the way and when.

Or maybe everything clicks and we run through the tournament again.

 

[Donyell 360]

Reed had a great game? He had ONE rebound in the first half. And PC’s bigs were in foul trouble. Yes, he did have a very good 8 minute run in the 2nd half. He also only played 19 minutes because Reibe was playing better.

What can I say, I like his game. He is so imposing in the post. How many and-1's did he have? His FT's are concerning. When are teams going to start hacking him harder to prevent those and-1's? Is he just too strong? I'd like to think so.