Post practice quotes - 6/5/2023

[husky429]

DC should be concentrating on a midrange game as AS should have done last off season. A 7'2" with a pull up jump 10-15' from rim would be a nasty weapon and something he would need in the NBA.
Shooting 3s are fine but he should be refining his foot speed and defending without fouling.
I see a huge year for DC in 2023-2024 - this team will need it.

I don't understand why you people continue to die on this hill. It's not even about whether or not the NBA should have more mid-range shots or not. The fact is that if he wants to get drafted and get a bunch of money, his best chance is to develop a 3-point shot rather than a mid-range shot. The NBA is desperate for true 7-footers that can shoot 3s.

Why would he or our coaching staff focus on a skill that will not help his long-term career? Why are you advocating for Donovan to train a skill that will not help him be successful at the next level? Do you not want our players to be successful in the NBA?

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Any time someone says "the NBA doesn't play defense," I am 100% sure they actually either don't watch the NBA, or have 0 idea how the game of basketball works.

It’s so annoying.

 

[Umami Zen]

For DC to have decent proficiency and comfort level at the 3 pt line this year (and for his future career) is pretty self-evident. There are secondary benefits as well as a high-screener/PnR threat/opens up the floor for the offense/and his above average skills as a passer/distributor.. IIRC.. One of the things Castle was most excited about with this year's team was the potential to PnR/Lob with DC .. Thought they could do that frequently and with great success.

 

[REB1094]

I'm good with Clingan taking some threes. We know he can hit them, it's just a matter of getting the full speed reps in so he is comfortable. Obviously most of his shots should be at the rim. For reference, about 11% of Sanogo's shots last year were 3's and the other 89% were 2's. If Clingan wants to shoot two 3's per game, to keep those same ratios, he would need around 20 FGAs per game (lol)

Doesn't sound like a realistic plan, but who knows lol. Maybe if he shoots 36+% from three then he could change that ratio to 85/15 or 80/20. But his leash on perimeter play will be very short just because he's so big and dominates the paint so easily. Most of his offense should come from rolling hard after screens, rim running on fast breaks, grabbing offensive boards, and ideally getting some low post isolations where he will be working on improving this offseason

No team will let a 7'3 guy with a strong post game go 1 on 1 all game or get free runs to the hoop, so defenses collapsing on him will be a major focal point of our offense. Clingan won't have the post scoring skill that Adama had, but he will be a better passer out of double teams. If the defense sells out to protect the rim, I'm sure DC will be happy to pop out for a 3.

 

[Tenspro2002]

For DC to have decent proficiency and comfort level at the 3 pt line this year (and for his future career) is pretty self-evident. There are secondary benefits as well as a high-screener/PnR threat/opens up the floor for the offense/and his above average skills as a passer/distributor.. IIRC.. One of the things Castle was most excited about with this year's team was the potential to PnR/Lob with DC .. Thought they could do that frequently and with great success.

Clingan developing a 3-point shot would be huge for the PnR game.

Imagine someone like Newton (or Castle) going downhill on a Clingan screen. Their defender would have to commit to staying with Clingan, in which case Newton can get to the rim if he has a step on his defender or throwing the lob if Clingan has a step on the roll defender, or, if they switch onto Newton, Clingan can pop to the 3-point line. It completely puts the defense in a blender.

This sort of worked for Sanogo, except he wasn't as much of a lob threat. Clingan doing it would be impossible to defend. And if, somehow, those two are stopped by help defense, they can kick to 40% shooter in Karaban or Castle/Spencer/Ball.

 

[husky429]

I'm good with Clingan taking some threes. We know he can hit them, it's just a matter of getting the full speed reps in so he is comfortable. Obviously most of his shots should be at the rim. For reference, about 11% of Sanogo's shots last year were 3's and the other 89% were 2's. If Clingan wants to shoot two 3's per game, to keep those same ratios, he would need around 20 FGAs per game (lol)

Doesn't sound like a realistic plan, but who knows lol. Maybe if he shoots 36+% from three then he could change that ratio to 85/15 or 80/20. But his leash on perimeter play will be very short just because he's so big and dominates the paint so easily. Most of his offense should come from rolling hard after screens, rim running on fast breaks, grabbing offensive boards, and ideally getting some low post isolations where he will be working on improving this offseason

No team will let a 7'3 guy with a strong post game go 1 on 1 all game or get free runs to the hoop, so defenses collapsing on him will be a major focal point of our offense. Clingan won't have the post scoring skill that Adama had, but he will be a better passer out of double teams. If the defense sells out to protect the rim, I'm sure DC will be happy to pop out for a 3.

I think late summer/fall will be when we really figure out how many 3s Clingan should be taking per game. If we're implementing an offense where he's taking 2-3 shots from deep a game, it probably means he's developed proficiency on a pick and pop, catch and shoot, etc.

If he develops a 35% shot in a more limited capacity (like Sanogo who only ever shot straight from the top of the key) then we will probably see more like 1 or maybe 2 attempts per game.

 

[Horatio]

Any footage of the young man from Greece would be appreciated

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

DC should be concentrating on a midrange game as AS should have done last off season. A 7'2" with a pull up jump 10-15' from rim would be a nasty weapon and something he would need in the NBA.
Shooting 3s are fine but he should be refining his foot speed and defending without fouling.
I see a huge year for DC in 2023-2024 - this team will need it.

Yeah, he can work on ALL assets of shooting but he definitely shouldn’t ignore his midrange game. It’s possible to work on both your 3 point game and mid range game to be a well rounded player.

If he shows off the ability to pass like what’s been talked about here, scouts are going to look at him like Jokic. Jokic operates a lot in the mid range area while also having the ability to step out and knockdown a three.

If DC can develop that Dirk step back like Jokic has, he becomes an absolutely unstoppable post player at 7’3. He probably won’t work on that over the summer because of analytics, but it should be something he wants to master if he wants to be a star player instead of just a serviceable NBA player.

 

[Palatine]

A consistent short hook shot would make a much larger positive difference for Clingan and the team than 2-3 threes a game.

 

[ucp990411]

Well, there's definitely something wrong with the way the NBA plays, but maybe that's my 80s and 90s NBA bias showing. Give me defensive battles in the 85 to 100 point range any day. These 130 to 140 games make me vomit.

Loved those bad boy Piston teams. Dennis Rodman is one my all time favorite players

 

[ucp990411]

I don't understand why you people continue to die on this hill. It's not even about whether or not the NBA should have more mid-range shots or not. The fact is that if he wants to get drafted and get a bunch of money, his best chance is to develop a 3-point shot rather than a mid-range shot. The NBA is desperate for true 7-footers that can shoot 3s.

Why would he or our coaching staff focus on a skill that will not help his long-term career? Why are you advocating for Donovan to train a skill that will not help him be successful at the next level? Do you not want our players to be successful in the NBA?

One of the most important things a college coach does is prepare his players for the next level. Dan Hurley gets that.

 

[UCTitleTown]

Any time someone says "the NBA doesn't play defense," I am 100% sure they actually either don't watch the NBA, or have 0 idea how the game of basketball works.

Wrong. I guess you need to say 99% or 100% with a 5% margin of error. So I guess the players were just worse when the scores were in the 80s and 90s..... Better players = more scoring..... Okay.

 

[husky429]

Wrong. I guess you need to say 99% or 100% with a 5% margin of error. So I guess the players were just worse when the scores were in the 80s and 90s..... Better players = more scoring..... Okay.

The players are certainly much more skilled now. They are also bigger, stronger, and more athletic. One of the beautiful things about this game is how our training and skills continue to advance. We learn what works and adapt. It's not just "better players/more scoring" though. Advanced analytics have optimized offenses to levels we haven't witnessed before. We're taking better shots in the most efficient actions. It isn't trial and error like in the 80s... we're building off DECADES of data to create the most efficient teams possible. Teams WOULD be scoring 130 a game every night if it wasn't for defenses advancing in turn.

And FWIW, the average PPG in 2022 was 114. The 4 years before that were 110-ish.

The 80s ranged from 107-110 PPG. The late 90s and early 2000s dropped with the iso era... down to a low point of 91 PPG in '97. See this link.

The differences you described were exaggerated substantially.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

I love DC but to be a top 5 he will have to get a little quicker, his speed up and down the court is + right now, I am speaking about his lateral movement when on defense and his first step when he needs drive to the basket when he is being guarded closely inside 17ft. If he takes more than 80 threes and shoots above 36% then maybe he makes your prediction come true.

The way I see it, scouts are going to look at him like Jokic because of his ability to pass except he can be an elite rim protector too. You’re not finding many 7’s like him with his motor too. He’s a special prospect.

This run Jokic is on can really help DC’s stock.

 

[Hunt for 7]

I don't understand why you people continue to die on this hill. It's not even about whether or not the NBA should have more mid-range shots or not. The fact is that if he wants to get drafted and get a bunch of money, his best chance is to develop a 3-point shot rather than a mid-range shot. The NBA is desperate for true 7-footers that can shoot 3s.

Why would he or our coaching staff focus on a skill that will not help his long-term career? Why are you advocating for Donovan to train a skill that will not help him be successful at the next level? Do you not want our players to be successful in the NBA?

The show Cheers just celebrated an anniversary. Whenever I hear someone mention the mid range game and NBA, I always think of the Cheers episode when John Cleese plays a marriage counselor and meets with Sam and Diane and comes to the conclusion that they should never get married. Diane counter with “so we are opposites and opposites attract” to which Cleese responds ah, “opposites attract the cry of the eternally doomed”. That about sums up the importance of the mid range game in todays nba.

 

[ucp990411]

One of the most important things a college coach does is prepare his players for the next level. Dan Hurley gets that.

Hey 429. I owe you an apology for a comment I made towards you in the chat during a game this year. You probably don’t remember it but I do. And I really appreciate all the info you provide.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

The show Cheers just celebrated an anniversary. Whenever I hear someone mention the mid range game and NBA, I always think of the Cheers episode when John Cleese plays a marriage counselor and meets with Sam and Diane and comes to the conclusion that they should never get married. Diane counter with “so we are opposites and opposites attract” to which Cleese responds ah, “opposites attract the cry of the eternally doomed”. That about sums up the importance of the mid range game in todays nba.

This is just not true though. Especially in Donovan’s case when talking about elite level centers.

Joel and Nikola both take more mid range shots than they do threes. This is a fact.

Jokic: Nikola Jokic | Denver Nuggets

Joel: Joel Embiid | Philadelphia 76ers

Devin Booker went on a historic scoring run this playoffs shooting mostly mid range shots.

Booker: Devin Booker | Phoenix Suns

Nobody who is a high level player is just shooting threes and layups except for Jayson Tatum who shoots a terrible FG%s because of it. I don’t know why people ignore these clear examples.

If you want to be a regular role player, sure learn the three and nothing else. But if you want to be an All Star, All NBA player you need to be a legit three level scorer.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here when I can rattle off a list of quite literally THE best and most clutch players in the NBA who take more mid range shots than threes but this board will say it doesn’t matter because Steph Curry and the Warriors.

 

[Hunt for 7]

The way I see it, scouts are going to look at him like Jokic because of his ability to pass except he can be an elite rim protector too. You’re not finding many 7’s like him with his motor too. He’s a special prospect.

This run Jokic is on can really help DC’s stock.

This is just not true though. Especially in Donovan’s case when talking about elite level centers.

Joel and Nikola both take more mid range shots than they do threes. This is a fact.

Jokic: Nikola Jokic | Denver Nuggets

Joel: Joel Embiid | Philadelphia 76ers

Devin Booker went on a historic scoring run this playoffs shooting mostly mid range shots.

Booker: Devin Booker | Phoenix Suns

Nobody who is a high level player is just shooting threes and layups except for Jayson Tatum who shoots a terrible FG%s because of it. I don’t know why people ignore these clear examples.

If you want to be a regular role player, sure learn the three and nothing else. But if you want to be an All Star, All NBA player you need to be a legit three level scorer.

Ok we should define mid range. But look at the chart you attached for Jokic. 86 mid range shots and 141 3 point shots. Or look at it this way any shot in the paint he shot better that 60%. Which is the important metric. You only get so many shot attempts per game. If you are a 40% or about 40% 3 point shooter that is 12 points per ten shots. He took 86 mid range shots and shot 52%. So would you rather have ten points for every ten shots or twelve points. Not saying I agree but math almost ruined baseball, and it has definitely impacted the beauty of pure basketball. But it is what it is.

 

[husky429]

Hey 429. I owe you an apology for a comment I made towards you in the chat during a game this year. You probably don’t remember it but I do. And I really appreciate all the info you provide.

No one can be held accountable for what happens in the game chat. It's the wild west in there, lol.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Ok we should define mid range. But look at the chart you attached for Jokic. 86 mid range shots and 141 3 point shots. Or look at it this way any shot in the paint he shot better that 60%. Which is the important metric. You only get so many shot attempts per game. If you are a 40% or about 40% 3 point shooter that is 12 points per ten shots. He took 86 mid range shots and shot 52%. So would you rather have ten points for every ten shots or twelve points. Not saying I agree but math almost ruined baseball, and it has definitely impacted the beauty of pure basketball. But it is what it is.

I was looking at the 8ft-24ft range.

Something that’s not pretty much a layup. Jokic shot about 200 of those compare to 146 threes. In the playoffs it’s 81 to 63.

I understand the math behind the a three is worth more than a 2, but at the end of the day you just need to score and there’s a lot of other factors the math doesn’t take into account.

We saw the Rockets fail horribly using that math and the Celtics just lost to a much less talented Heat team behind that too because it doesn’t matter if you inevitably go cold taking the toughest shot in basketball. The Heat’s two best players were not three point shooters and one was able to get tough baskets when it mattered because at the end of the day, you just want to get the best shot to score.

Eventually teams are going to adjust once they see that math only works when you have the two best shooters of all time.

 

[Hunt for 7]

I was looking at the 8ft-24ft range.

Something that’s not pretty much a layup. Jokic shot about 200 of those compare to 146 threes. In the playoffs it’s 81 to 63.

I understand the math behind the a three is worth more than a 2, but at the end of the day you just need to score and there’s a lot of other factors the math doesn’t take into account.

We saw the Rockets fail horribly using that math and the Celtics just lost to a much less talented Heat team behind that too because it doesn’t matter if you inevitably go cold taking the toughest shot in basketball. The Heat’s two best players were not three point shooters and one was able to get tough baskets when it mattered because at the end of the day, you just want to get the best shot to score.

Eventually teams are going to adjust once they see that math only works when you have the two best shooters of all time.

I agree with your overall premise. Clyde and Earl the Pearl were my favorite players growing up and they lived and dominated in the mid range. I hope they move the three point line out to a liner straight across the court and make it a 30ft shot. Because these players are getting better and better at making threes and ultimately I don’t think that is good for the game. Bring back hand checking and the physicality that once was so much part of the game. But fans want to see the long ball or dunks. So as a business the nba created a product that spaces the floor and these guys either heave it up from three or go full throttle down open lanes for dunks. Not the game I grew up playing.

 

[ucp990411]

No one can be held accountable for what happens in the game chat. It's the wild west in there, lol.

I would love to talk hoops at some point

 

[HuskyHawk]

Wrong. I guess you need to say 99% or 100% with a 5% margin of error. So I guess the players were just worse when the scores were in the 80s and 90s..... Better players = more scoring..... Okay.

I think you are just misremembering. This is the 1987 finals. Note that guys like Bird could have scored more if they shot more 3s. The scoring isn't much different. How it happens is. Now team defense trumps individual defense. Yes, sometimes a guy is just wide open and they let him shoot. Usually ball movement won the day, and they can't close out late without fouling. But it is much more a team game now than in the 90's and 00s. On both sides of the ball.

 

[husky429]

I think you are just misremembering. This is the 1987 finals. Note that guys like Bird could have scored more if they shot more 3s. The scoring isn't much different. How it happens is. Now team defense trumps individual defense. Yes, sometimes a guy is just wide open and they let him shoot. Usually ball movement won the day, and they can't close out late without fouling. But it is much more a team game now than in the 90's and 00s. On both sides of the ball.

View attachment 88761

Facts don't change the narrative for folks living in fantasy-land.