Phil Jackson: Duke players rarely live up to expectations of NBA | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Phil Jackson: Duke players rarely live up to expectations of NBA

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Obviously I want Duke to fail miserably, but a lot of these criticisms are a few years out of date.
 
champs99and04 said:
I guess what I am wondering is if they are actually getting better players or if it is just a different era. Look at guys like Singler and Nolan Smith - both top ten recruits who played four years - and compare them to the type of players that have been coming through the program recently. I don't know if K is recruiting a different type of player - he probably is, at least to some extent - or if the game is just different.
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I think that's more of a case of Smith and Singler not living up to their top 10 ranking. If they were good enough to be a one and done they probably would have left.

It's interesting Coack K admitted he changed his recruiting strategy once one and done was instituted. http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...-their-mindset-on-one-and-done-players-video/

Maybe the caliber of player Duke is getting has gone up slightly, but I would guess if you went back and looked at their recruiting classes over the last 25-30 years, their class ranking will not have varied much.

I believe Duke only had 3 one and done players prior to last season (Irving, Rivers, and Parker) and had 3 on last years team. It will be interesting to see if he starts trying to stockpile one and dones like Kentucky.
 
Gringo said:
I think that's more of a case of Smith and Singler not living up to their top 10 ranking. If they were good enough to be a one and done they probably would have left.

It's interesting Coack K admitted he changed his recruiting strategy once one and done was instituted. http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...-their-mindset-on-one-and-done-players-video/

Maybe the caliber of player Duke is getting has gone up slightly, but I would guess if you went back and looked at their recruiting classes over the last 25-30 years, their class ranking will not have varied much.

I believe Duke only had 3 one and done players prior to last season (Irving, Rivers, and Parker) and had 3 on last years team. It will be interesting to see if he starts trying to stockpile one and dones like Kentucky.
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Corey Magette. Luol Deng.
 
intlzncster said:
Corey Magette. Luol Deng.
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I should have qualified. I was talking about one and done players since the one and done rule was established. They were both before the one and done rule. You could argue that guys like Parker, Okafor would have gone straight to the NBA.
 
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Waquoit said:
What's with all the Duke knob-polishing?
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AAC. We need to make friends not enemies, LOL.

Hell if this fan has to say good things about Cal to help us get into their coference, well . . . . . . . . . . . . . I would try.
 
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boog204 said:
One thing that I think goes against Duke is that guys are instantly overrated the second they commit. They had so many guys who were very highly rated who in my opinion simply sucked. Casey Sanders, Paulus, Wojo, Michael Thompson, Taylor King, Eric Boateng, Crawford Palmer, Taymon Domzalski, Shav Randolph, Chris Burgess, Erik Meek, etc. Most of them were big white guys who instantly became the next great thing once they committed to Duke. We then see these lofty recruit numbers and think that K is not developing them when it seemed to me that they were not that good to begin with. Randolph ended up being a good player and King and Burgess had their moments elsewhere, but all of these guys were supposed to be great. Is that a knock on Coach K or were they simply not that good? I mean Rudy Johnson was at one point a top 25 player and was the jewel of his class before Donyell. Sure, injuries derailed him but even early on when he was healthy, he just wasn't all that good. He ended up being a serviceable glue guy but top 25?
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Agree on some for sure boog and that's a good point and not at all on K. But I guess we don't know for sure if kids like Joey Beard, Palmer, Domzalski, Burgess, Sanders and Boateng couldn't have come out better players had they gone somewhere else, we ill never know. Some of them were very good players who never saw minutes for a year or 2 as K rarely gave time to frosh unless they were absolutely special. Sometimes due to having great teams existing and sometimes due to what seemed to be a pattern of his.

He's a great coach but many of those kids also were highly rated before they committed to Duke but certainly there were some undeserving to their commitment to Duke early. Tough call but there is some truth to the point Phil made.
 
mauconnfan said:
But I guess we don't know for sure if kids like Joey Beard, Palmer, Domzalski, Burgess, Sanders and Boateng couldn't have come out better players had they gone somewhere else, we ill never know.
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Beard, Burgess, and Boateng all transferred to other schools and didn't amount to anything, so in their case we know the answer to that question.

It seems like a strange time for UConn fans to jump on Duke players for their success in the NBA.
 
champs99and04 said:
I guess what I am wondering is if they are actually getting better players or if it is just a different era. Look at guys like Singler and Nolan Smith - both top ten recruits who played four years - and compare them to the type of players that have been coming through the program recently. I don't know if K is recruiting a different type of player - he probably is, at least to some extent - or if the game is just different.
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This is a nitpick but Smith was not an elite recruit.

I agree with Boog in that a decent amount of Duke players get overrated when they get Duke interest/sign with Duke and additionally, any top 50 kid that goes to Duke is going to land on a McD team. Its not fair to say that K has landed so many McDonald players who haven't turned into pros when plenty of these guys were not going to be pros from anywhere.

Phil is trolling, K has done a fine job developing NBA players.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Beard, Burgess, and Boateng all transferred to other schools and didn't amount to anything, so in their case we know the answer to that question.

It seems like a strange time for UConn fans to jump on Duke players for their success in the NBA.
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We do? Beard was a nice player at BU and do we know that the BU coach got what say a JC could've gotten out him? Where did Burgess go? He was pretty good where ever he was. Love you sticking up for K all the time but truth is his kids aren't great NBA ready players.

Not sure about the strange time either - why because he is Calipari-ing it now? Hey K is a great coach, maybe the best doesn't mean he has to have a great NBA player track record and guess what, he doesn't.
 
walker11 said:
This is a nitpick but Smith was not an elite recruit.

I agree with Boog in that a decent amount of Duke players get overrated when they get Duke interest/sign with Duke and additionally, any top 50 kid that goes to Duke is going to land on a McD team. Its not fair to say that K has landed so many McDonald players who haven't turned into pros when plenty of these guys were not going to be pros from anywhere.

Phil is trolling, K has done a fine job developing NBA players.
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Not sure why I thought Smith was a top ten kid. It's funny to see that from that same class, Taylor King is ranked ahead of Smith. What a head case he was.
 
mauconnfan said:
We do? Beard was a nice player at BU and do we know that the BU coach got what say a JC could've gotten out him? Where did Burgess go? He was pretty good where ever he was. Love you sticking up for K all the time but truth is his kids aren't great NBA ready players.

Not sure about the strange time either - why because he is Calipari-ing it now? Hey K is a great coach, maybe the best doesn't mean he has to have a great NBA player track record and guess what, he doesn't.
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I know it's a waste of time getting into this with you because you just get upset but you literally said "we will never know" if those guys would have been better if they went elsewhere, and a bunch of them . . . wait for it . . . did go elsewhere! So we do know. They weren't very good.

It's a strange time because Duke is flooding the league with kids and crushing recruiting while UConn's NBA presence is far from what it once was. Call it "sticking up for K" all you want, you sound like a little kid.

Like I said, a waste of my time to even type this because you'll just throw out some conclusion that reflects your opinion and call it a "fact" - like Stanley Johnson and Kevin Pangos are the same height - but there you go . . .
 
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Josh McRoberts went to Dook a lottery pick and his status declined every year he stayed

JJ, for all his college accolades sans winning something on the court, never developed into an NBA player until after he left Dook and worked on his body

teaching kids don't flop and playing for 3's is not NBA basketball, although K seems to be moving more towards a man's game in recent years
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
I know it's a waste of time getting into this with you because you just get upset but you literally said "we will never know" if those guys would have been better if they went elsewhere, and a bunch of them . . . wait for it . . . did go elsewhere! So we do know. They weren't very good.

It's a strange time because Duke is flooding the league with kids and crushing recruiting while UConn's NBA presence is far from what it once was. Call it "sticking up for K" all you want, you sound like a little kid.

Like I said, a waste of my time to even type this because you'll just throw out some conclusion that reflects your opinion and call it a "fact" - like Stanley Johnson and Kevin Pangos are the same height - but there you go . . .
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No facts here Cracky minus that fact Stanley wasn't 6'8" - Yep it's a fact as I thought. He I wasn't sure about that just knew he wasn't 6'8". Do you guys ever look at other guys when they stand next to them during a game. Like Facey who is 6'9" when he's standing next to Brimah and you can hardly tell the difference?

All opinion on the rest but you can make it what you want. Sorry all of my thoughts on K upset you a lot for whatever reason so I won't argue your "facts" either. By the way both of us have an opinion and if you look back at them, none can be proven either way. That's why we're here, new flash, to throw out opinions on basketball. Oh crap there;s a concept!
 
5 on 5 would be interesting . Like no refs , think kemba vs kyrie is a draw and drummond eats jah up down low.
Kemba Irving
Lamb? Redick
Butler? Jabari
Gay? Mcbob
Dre. Jah

Interesting match up . Frankly we need another young lotto pick , hoping that's Adams .
 
willie99 said:
teaching kids don't flop and playing for 3's is not NBA basketball, although K seems to be moving more towards a man's game in recent years
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Playing for 3's not being a part of the NBA would be very surprising news for the NBA, Willie. When's the last time you actually watched the NBA?
 
willie99 said:
playing for 3's is not NBA basketball
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1778340.jpg


Tell that to your reigning NBA champions
 
Rocktheworld said:
1778340.jpg


Tell that to your reigning NBA champions
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one exception just doesn't change history, especially when that one exception had a rather fortuitous road with a combination of match-ups and injuries

the fact that they are the only exception actually proves my point
 
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willie99 said:
one exception just doesn't change history, especially when that one exception had a rather fortuitous road with a combination of match-ups and injuries

the fact that they are the only exception actually proves my point
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All I can tell you is: do some research and reading.

Or, you know, just start watching the NBA for yourself
 
willie99 said:
one exception just doesn't change history, especially when that one exception had a rather fortuitous road with a combination of match-ups and injuries

the fact that they are the only exception actually proves my point
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2014 Spurs? I'm fairly certain that every champion in recent NBA memory has ranked atop the league in threes.
 
CAHUSKY said:
Why is it odd that they are producing better pros now that they are getting better players? Isn't that what you would expect ?
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I don't think he is getting better players. He used to get a ton of McD's all Americans that stayed four years. He now has to accept burger boys that are one and done.

The loss for everyone who is not Duke, UK and KU (sill UNC?) is that the top recruiting schools eat up 2 -4 times the AA recruits they used to get because of the quick turn-over. We, and everyone else, are less likely to get the occasional burger boy these days with Drummond being an exception as a local fan.

Fortunately, this has not stopped us.
 
I do think we are looking back at the old Duke when they got top recruits (like they still do) but we had more pros than they did. Not so true at this time. Give us a few years and maybe we reestablish ourselves.
 
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champs99and04 said:
2014 Spurs? I'm fairly certain that every champion in recent NBA memory has ranked atop the league in threes.
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I heard a stat this week that the Spurs were the median team for 3's attempted this season, which was good enough for something like 55th all time.
 
I'm thinking we must have a difference of a opinion on how to define "relying on the 3"

kicking out to open the paint is not relying on the 3

The Spurs? The Heat? The Lakers, C's Pistons, Bulls............................nooooooo

c'mon man, nobody should be advising me about observing the game either

2015 GS is the only team that lived and died by the 3, the only team who's two best players are 3 point shooters
the only team to do such and win a championship
 
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PS: take it up with Phil Jackson
 
willie99 said:
2015 GS is the only team that lived and died by the 3, the only team who's two best players are 3 point shooters
the only team to do such and win a championship
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2015 GS attempted fewer 3's than the two teams they beat in the Western Conference Finals and the NBA Finals this year.
 
OK, let's do this

16 teams make the playoffs, the following is where the NBA champs ranked in the post season in 3 point attempts

2015: GS (1) 32.7 PG
2014: SA (10) 21.6
2013: Mia (9) 20.2
2012: Mia (4) 19.7
2011: Dal (3) 22.2
2010: LA (10) 19.0
2009: LA (9) 18.4
2008: Bos (10) 16.8
2007: SA (7) 19.7
2006: Mia (6) 19.1
2005: SA (8) 18.3

so not only is GS the 1st team to win the championship relying on the 3, they attempted > 10 more 3's per game than the next closest champion (you can't spin this, just stop)

people are telling me I need to observe
people are mocking me about an argument I made which is 100% accurate

10 more 3 point attempts per game than the next closest champion

so sorry

maybe just maybe Phil know's what he's talking about, A?
 
looks like somebody never watched a game before 2015

(couldn't resist) ;)
 
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