Phil Jackson: Duke players rarely live up to expectations of NBA

[willie99]

who are we to argue with what Phil said?

are fellow boneyarders really attacking Dook bashing because many of us agree with Phil Jackson?

 

[mauconnfan]

The operative word in that quote was "rarely"

And it is simply not accurate

I'm not sure what's not accurate?

 

[gtcam]

I really don't care what Duke has produced or where their guys go. If K wants to taunt the 1 and dones now - let it be.
In the large picture - which program has had more McD AAs attend and who holds a slim lead in NCAA titles? UConn or Duke? To me that is the story - who develops what they have to better things and who just gets the AAs. With as many as Duke has enrolled in the past 25 years, my expectations would have been a lot higher in the title catagory.

 

[champs99and04]

Why is it odd that they are producing better pros now that they are getting better players? Isn't that what you would expect ?

I guess what I am wondering is if they are actually getting better players or if it is just a different era. Look at guys like Singler and Nolan Smith - both top ten recruits who played four years - and compare them to the type of players that have been coming through the program recently. I don't know if K is recruiting a different type of player - he probably is, at least to some extent - or if the game is just different.

 

[boog204]

One thing that I think goes against Duke is that guys are instantly overrated the second they commit. They had so many guys who were very highly rated who in my opinion simply sucked. Casey Sanders, Paulus, Wojo, Michael Thompson, Taylor King, Eric Boateng, Crawford Palmer, Taymon Domzalski, Shav Randolph, Chris Burgess, Erik Meek, etc. Most of them were big white guys who instantly became the next great thing once they committed to Duke. We then see these lofty recruit numbers and think that K is not developing them when it seemed to me that they were not that good to begin with. Randolph ended up being a good player and King and Burgess had their moments elsewhere, but all of these guys were supposed to be great. Is that a knock on Coach K or were they simply not that good? I mean Rudy Johnson was at one point a top 25 player and was the jewel of his class before Donyell. Sure, injuries derailed him but even early on when he was healthy, he just wasn't all that good. He ended up being a serviceable glue guy but top 25?

 

[UConn990411]

Obviously I want Duke to fail miserably, but a lot of these criticisms are a few years out of date.

 

[Gringo]

I guess what I am wondering is if they are actually getting better players or if it is just a different era. Look at guys like Singler and Nolan Smith - both top ten recruits who played four years - and compare them to the type of players that have been coming through the program recently. I don't know if K is recruiting a different type of player - he probably is, at least to some extent - or if the game is just different.

I think that's more of a case of Smith and Singler not living up to their top 10 ranking. If they were good enough to be a one and done they probably would have left.

It's interesting Coack K admitted he changed his recruiting strategy once one and done was instituted. http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...-their-mindset-on-one-and-done-players-video/

Maybe the caliber of player Duke is getting has gone up slightly, but I would guess if you went back and looked at their recruiting classes over the last 25-30 years, their class ranking will not have varied much.

I believe Duke only had 3 one and done players prior to last season (Irving, Rivers, and Parker) and had 3 on last years team. It will be interesting to see if he starts trying to stockpile one and dones like Kentucky.

 

[intlzncster]

I think that's more of a case of Smith and Singler not living up to their top 10 ranking. If they were good enough to be a one and done they probably would have left.

It's interesting Coack K admitted he changed his recruiting strategy once one and done was instituted. http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...-their-mindset-on-one-and-done-players-video/

Maybe the caliber of player Duke is getting has gone up slightly, but I would guess if you went back and looked at their recruiting classes over the last 25-30 years, their class ranking will not have varied much.

I believe Duke only had 3 one and done players prior to last season (Irving, Rivers, and Parker) and had 3 on last years team. It will be interesting to see if he starts trying to stockpile one and dones like Kentucky.

Corey Magette. Luol Deng.

 

[storrsroars]

K insulted Phil by saying it was the talent (MJ, Shaq, Bryant, et.al.), not the triangle, that made Phil a championship coach.

So Phil insulted K back.

I think it's about that simple.

 

[Gringo]

Corey Magette. Luol Deng.

I should have qualified. I was talking about one and done players since the one and done rule was established. They were both before the one and done rule. You could argue that guys like Parker, Okafor would have gone straight to the NBA.

 

[Kitaman]

What's with all the Duke knob-polishing?

AAC. We need to make friends not enemies, LOL.

Hell if this fan has to say good things about Cal to help us get into their coference, well . . . . . . . . . . . . . I would try.

 

[mauconnfan]

One thing that I think goes against Duke is that guys are instantly overrated the second they commit. They had so many guys who were very highly rated who in my opinion simply sucked. Casey Sanders, Paulus, Wojo, Michael Thompson, Taylor King, Eric Boateng, Crawford Palmer, Taymon Domzalski, Shav Randolph, Chris Burgess, Erik Meek, etc. Most of them were big white guys who instantly became the next great thing once they committed to Duke. We then see these lofty recruit numbers and think that K is not developing them when it seemed to me that they were not that good to begin with. Randolph ended up being a good player and King and Burgess had their moments elsewhere, but all of these guys were supposed to be great. Is that a knock on Coach K or were they simply not that good? I mean Rudy Johnson was at one point a top 25 player and was the jewel of his class before Donyell. Sure, injuries derailed him but even early on when he was healthy, he just wasn't all that good. He ended up being a serviceable glue guy but top 25?

Agree on some for sure boog and that's a good point and not at all on K. But I guess we don't know for sure if kids like Joey Beard, Palmer, Domzalski, Burgess, Sanders and Boateng couldn't have come out better players had they gone somewhere else, we ill never know. Some of them were very good players who never saw minutes for a year or 2 as K rarely gave time to frosh unless they were absolutely special. Sometimes due to having great teams existing and sometimes due to what seemed to be a pattern of his.

He's a great coach but many of those kids also were highly rated before they committed to Duke but certainly there were some undeserving to their commitment to Duke early. Tough call but there is some truth to the point Phil made.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

But I guess we don't know for sure if kids like Joey Beard, Palmer, Domzalski, Burgess, Sanders and Boateng couldn't have come out better players had they gone somewhere else, we ill never know.

Beard, Burgess, and Boateng all transferred to other schools and didn't amount to anything, so in their case we know the answer to that question.

It seems like a strange time for UConn fans to jump on Duke players for their success in the NBA.

 

[Walker11]

I guess what I am wondering is if they are actually getting better players or if it is just a different era. Look at guys like Singler and Nolan Smith - both top ten recruits who played four years - and compare them to the type of players that have been coming through the program recently. I don't know if K is recruiting a different type of player - he probably is, at least to some extent - or if the game is just different.

This is a nitpick but Smith was not an elite recruit.

I agree with Boog in that a decent amount of Duke players get overrated when they get Duke interest/sign with Duke and additionally, any top 50 kid that goes to Duke is going to land on a McD team. Its not fair to say that K has landed so many McDonald players who haven't turned into pros when plenty of these guys were not going to be pros from anywhere.

Phil is trolling, K has done a fine job developing NBA players.

 

[mauconnfan]

Beard, Burgess, and Boateng all transferred to other schools and didn't amount to anything, so in their case we know the answer to that question.

It seems like a strange time for UConn fans to jump on Duke players for their success in the NBA.

We do? Beard was a nice player at BU and do we know that the BU coach got what say a JC could've gotten out him? Where did Burgess go? He was pretty good where ever he was. Love you sticking up for K all the time but truth is his kids aren't great NBA ready players.

Not sure about the strange time either - why because he is Calipari-ing it now? Hey K is a great coach, maybe the best doesn't mean he has to have a great NBA player track record and guess what, he doesn't.

 

[champs99and04]

This is a nitpick but Smith was not an elite recruit.

I agree with Boog in that a decent amount of Duke players get overrated when they get Duke interest/sign with Duke and additionally, any top 50 kid that goes to Duke is going to land on a McD team. Its not fair to say that K has landed so many McDonald players who haven't turned into pros when plenty of these guys were not going to be pros from anywhere.

Phil is trolling, K has done a fine job developing NBA players.

Not sure why I thought Smith was a top ten kid. It's funny to see that from that same class, Taylor King is ranked ahead of Smith. What a head case he was.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

We do? Beard was a nice player at BU and do we know that the BU coach got what say a JC could've gotten out him? Where did Burgess go? He was pretty good where ever he was. Love you sticking up for K all the time but truth is his kids aren't great NBA ready players.

Not sure about the strange time either - why because he is Calipari-ing it now? Hey K is a great coach, maybe the best doesn't mean he has to have a great NBA player track record and guess what, he doesn't.

I know it's a waste of time getting into this with you because you just get upset but you literally said "we will never know" if those guys would have been better if they went elsewhere, and a bunch of them . . . wait for it . . . did go elsewhere! So we do know. They weren't very good.

It's a strange time because Duke is flooding the league with kids and crushing recruiting while UConn's NBA presence is far from what it once was. Call it "sticking up for K" all you want, you sound like a little kid.

Like I said, a waste of my time to even type this because you'll just throw out some conclusion that reflects your opinion and call it a "fact" - like Stanley Johnson and Kevin Pangos are the same height - but there you go . . .

 

[willie99]

Josh McRoberts went to Dook a lottery pick and his status declined every year he stayed

JJ, for all his college accolades sans winning something on the court, never developed into an NBA player until after he left Dook and worked on his body

teaching kids don't flop and playing for 3's is not NBA basketball, although K seems to be moving more towards a man's game in recent years

 

[mauconnfan]

I know it's a waste of time getting into this with you because you just get upset but you literally said "we will never know" if those guys would have been better if they went elsewhere, and a bunch of them . . . wait for it . . . did go elsewhere! So we do know. They weren't very good.

It's a strange time because Duke is flooding the league with kids and crushing recruiting while UConn's NBA presence is far from what it once was. Call it "sticking up for K" all you want, you sound like a little kid.

Like I said, a waste of my time to even type this because you'll just throw out some conclusion that reflects your opinion and call it a "fact" - like Stanley Johnson and Kevin Pangos are the same height - but there you go . . .

No facts here Cracky minus that fact Stanley wasn't 6'8" - Yep it's a fact as I thought. He I wasn't sure about that just knew he wasn't 6'8". Do you guys ever look at other guys when they stand next to them during a game. Like Facey who is 6'9" when he's standing next to Brimah and you can hardly tell the difference?

All opinion on the rest but you can make it what you want. Sorry all of my thoughts on K upset you a lot for whatever reason so I won't argue your "facts" either. By the way both of us have an opinion and if you look back at them, none can be proven either way. That's why we're here, new flash, to throw out opinions on basketball. Oh crap there;s a concept!

 

[James]

5 on 5 would be interesting . Like no refs , think kemba vs kyrie is a draw and drummond eats jah up down low.
Kemba Irving
Lamb? Redick
Butler? Jabari
Gay? Mcbob
Dre. Jah

Interesting match up . Frankly we need another young lotto pick , hoping that's Adams .

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

teaching kids don't flop and playing for 3's is not NBA basketball, although K seems to be moving more towards a man's game in recent years

Playing for 3's not being a part of the NBA would be very surprising news for the NBA, Willie. When's the last time you actually watched the NBA?

 

[Rocktheworld]

playing for 3's is not NBA basketball

Tell that to your reigning NBA champions

 

[willie99]

Tell that to your reigning NBA champions

one exception just doesn't change history, especially when that one exception had a rather fortuitous road with a combination of match-ups and injuries

the fact that they are the only exception actually proves my point

 

[Rocktheworld]

one exception just doesn't change history, especially when that one exception had a rather fortuitous road with a combination of match-ups and injuries

the fact that they are the only exception actually proves my point

All I can tell you is: do some research and reading.

Or, you know, just start watching the NBA for yourself

 

[CallMeBruce]

one exception just doesn't change history, especially when that one exception had a rather fortuitous road with a combination of match-ups and injuries

the fact that they are the only exception actually proves my point

It's like you came here in a time machine from 1997.