Penn State professor: BOT says Rutgers next in line to join Big 10

[lv99]

upstater, you are just arguing to be arguing... It's obvious you are just looking things up on web and reading the minimum you think you need to so you can come back quickly with a response... I actually know what I'm talking about; you went to Wikipedia and looked up AAU and saw the list of former members and posted it... If you would have read a litte further, you would have seen they departed the AAU... They left voluntarily. You're not going to spend 3 minutes on some website and find something that's some new revelation to someone who has years of experience.

 

[lv99]

u do for coming here #1. and #2 u still have no clue about the aau. u just learned everything u know about it in this thread. nd is not aau but becuase they are nd its easy for the b10 to set it aside. blah blah. if unc wasn't aau but they called, do u really think the b10 is going to say no? the b10 does not care about the aau. what they do care about is if your university spends so much $$ or has so much $$ and other stats about research to make uconn or ruty on par research wise with its other schools. thats what they care about. so while nebraska isn't in the aau, they are research wise very similar to the other b10 schools. ruty or uconn would both be just fine in the research area with ruty in better shape. tvs, fball program, tvs, alums demo, tvs, on field results, school rankings.

the nebraska guy said that to save face and make the b10 look like a good guy. for the last so many years they knew they were on the fence about getting kicked out. so they happen to get into the b10 before it happens. just to please the schools that voted to add them he throws them a bone media wise just to juice how good these schools are in the classroom. no one gives a frick.

The AAU membership gets you research grants that the AAU wins. That's why you want to be in it. It's not just a club. Why do you think schools try so hard to get in? Ever single school does research. But if you aren't a member of the AAU, you don't help lobby and you don't share. Money doesn't come from being in the CIC; it comes from the AAU. That's why the Big 10 requires AAU membership, de facto. That, and it's a point of pride.

So what about Notre Dame. They aren't in the AAU, so I must be wrong?? Everyone wants Notre Dame. If you're Notre Dame, they let it slide. If you're UConn, they don't... How do we know this? Because Notre Dame was pursued by the Big 10 in 1999. This is a fact. Jim Delaney said it. In real news media. It didn't come from some nerd on the Internet who thinks he has some insider info... It didn't come from some forum poster who read that his university does research and made the leap that therefore AAU membership really doesn't matter...

 

[upstater]

It's funny how you assumed I got the quote from the same source I did... I just went to Wikipedia. Ever heard of that site? Go look up the University of Nebraska on Wikipedia. You don't need to be looking up obscure reports. (You just typed the quote I gave you into Google, right?).

Anyway, the extra line just supports what I was saying... The Big 10 has nothing to do with AAU membership. AAU is an research alliance. The Big 10 wants you to be good in football for revenue purposes. Would you agree with that? But that doesn't mean they're going to kick out Northwestern or Indiana. Once you're in, you're in.

Uh, no. Wrong on all your assumptions and claims. Once again. But what do I expect from someone who thinks reporting is obscure and Wikipedia is the gold standard.

 

[upstater]

upstater, you are just arguing to be arguing... It's obvious you are just looking things up on web and reading the minimum you think you need to so you can come back quickly with a response... I actually know what I'm talking about; you went to Wikipedia and looked up AAU and saw the list of former members and posted it... If you would have read a litte further, you would have seen they departed the AAU... They left voluntarily. You're not going to spend 3 minutes on some website and find something that's some new revelation to someone who has years of experience.

They left voluntarily the way you will voluntarily leave the board with your continued trolling.

 

[upstater]

The AAU membership gets you research grants that the AAU wins. That's why you want to be in it. It's not just a club. Why do you think schools try so hard to get in? Ever single school does research. But if you aren't a member of the AAU, you don't help lobby and you don't share. Money doesn't come from being in the CIC; it comes from the AAU. That's why the Big 10 requires AAU membership, de facto. That, and it's a point of pride.

So what about Notre Dame. They aren't in the AAU, so I must be wrong?? Everyone wants Notre Dame. If you're Notre Dame, they let it slide. If you're UConn, they don't... How do we know this? Because Notre Dame was pursued by the Big 10 in 1999. This is a fact. Jim Delaney said it. In real news media. It didn't come from some nerd on the Internet who thinks he has some insider info... It didn't come from some forum poster who read that his university does research and made the leap that therefore AAU membership really doesn't matter...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The AAU gets you the research grants that the AAU wins? That's how it works? So, the National Science Foundation and peer reviewers are in the practice now of handing over bundles of cash to lobbyists who then parse the money out to their friends?!?!?

Ridiculous. The CIC, at least, actually puts together real proposals for grants--AND lands them, but that's not even the CIC's real reason for being. The CIC is about establishing benchmarks and sharing information.

Man, the authority on AAU here thinks the AAU lands research grants! Preposterous.

 

[lv99]

Uh, no. Wrong on all your assumptions and claims. Once again. But what do I expect from someone who thinks reporting is obscure and Wikipedia is the gold standard.

Oh really...so we're supposed to believe Wikipedia and other websites are wrong on this and you're right... So you're saying that Syracuse got kicked out last year? Show me a link...

90% time you can get away with quickly looking something up and acting like you know what you're talking about. This wasn't one of those times.

 

[lv99]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The AAU gets you the research grants that the AAU wins? That's how it works? So, the National Science Foundation and peer reviewers are in the practice now of handing over bundles of cash to lobbyists who then parse the money out to their friends?!?!?

Ridiculous. The CIC, at least, actually puts together real proposals for grants--AND lands them, but that's not even the CIC's real reason for being. The CIC is about establishing benchmarks and sharing information.

Man, the authority on AAU here thinks the AAU lands research grants! Preposterous.

You might want to try to at least reword things when you cut and paste from Wikipedia if you want to pass it off like you said it...

 

[lv99]

They left voluntarily the way you will voluntarily leave the board with your continued trolling.

So I see you took the time to read the little summary on the AAU Wikipedia entry now...

 

[upstater]

So I see you took the time to read the little summary on the AAU Wikipedia entry now...

You don't seem to even comprehend what I wrote. Almost everyone else who read that knows exactly what happened when Syracuse was unceremoniously asked to leave. Aren't you the one, by the way, who referenced Wiki and called my link obscure?

In case you didn't know it, this whole topic has been discussed here before with the relevant links to the actual emails. But go on in your ignorance.

 

[upstater]

You might want to try to at least reword things when you cut and paste from Wikipedia if you want to pass it off like you said it...

I'm trying to get this straight: you believe AAU has money that it doles out for research to its associate members?

That is what you wrote.

Don't try to change the subject.

 

[pj]

In federal research funding, Rutgers is #52 and UConn #72: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf12316/pdf/tab17.pdf. That's not great but it's only marginally below the AAU membership criterion (59 AAU members). They seems to like being an exclusive club, so I wouldn't count on an invitation. But when it comes right down to it, it's a club and a lobbying organization. It has no major function, since the universities lobby individually as well. It's not going to affect a football/sports decision. The Big Ten just doesn't want to associate with small-time institutions and that's not a problem with UConn and Rutgers.

 

[lv99]

In federal research funding, Rutgers is #52 and UConn #72: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf12316/pdf/tab17.pdf. That's not great but it's only marginally below the AAU membership criterion (59 AAU members). They seems to like being an exclusive club, so I wouldn't count on an invitation. But when it comes right down to it, it's a club and a lobbying organization. It has no major function, since the universities lobby individually as well. It's not going to affect a football/sports decision. The Big Ten just doesn't want to associate with small-time institutions and that's not a problem with UConn and Rutgers.

The reason why it's so valuable to be in the AAU is that research grants often go to many universities. If you aren't in the AAU, you will get passed over for those jointly awarded research grants.

Once the school is awarded a grant, it keeps the money it gets from those grants; the money is used to pay the researchers. But in order to get those grants, it really helps to be in the AAU. That doesn't mean you wouldn't get research grants if you're not in the AAU. You would get a lot more if you are in the AAU. The lobbyists lobby on behalf the AAU members.

The Big 10 doesn't actually make money from you being in the AAU. It's just a point of prestige.

 

[pj]

The reason why it's so valuable to be in the AAU is that research grants often go to many universities. If you aren't in the AAU, you will get passed over for those jointly awarded research grants.

Nonsense. I've spent much of my career in academia at top research universities, and my wife is on the Harvard faculty. AAU membership does nothing to help anyone get a research grant. Principal investigators at the collaborating institutions organize the grant proposal and it's evaluated by independent review panels selected by the government with no consideration as to whether anyone is from an AAU institution. Any institution with a research agreement with the federal government can participate in such a collaboration; the vast majority of these are not in the AAU. PIs at AAU institutions are quite happy to collaborate with PIs at non-AAU institutions, so long as their top-quality people who will help them get funded.

 

[UConnDan97]

Nonsense. I've spent much of my career in academia at top research universities, and my wife is on the Harvard faculty. AAU membership does nothing to help anyone get a research grant. Principal investigators at the collaborating institutions organize the grant proposal and it's evaluated by independent review panels selected by the government with no consideration as to whether anyone is from an AAU institution. Any institution with a research agreement with the federal government can participate in such a collaboration; the vast majority of these are not in the AAU. PIs at AAU institutions are quite happy to collaborate with PIs at non-AAU institutions, so long as their top-quality people who will help them get funded.

Based on my information, this is absolutely true. My former professor in chemistry at UConn described grants in this manner, and I have spoken with a Stanford chemistry professor (DuBois) who has explained to me his experience on the panel. The individuals on the panel judge the merits of the research proposal and essentially grade it for feasability. The composite grade of the panel determines whether the grant is awarded or not. It is independent of institution. At least that's how it works in chemistry.

 

[lv99]

The major practical purpose of the AAU is research. The major criteria for membership in the AAU is research. Syracuse didn't suddenly become a worse college. The criteria now is more about research.

If you're in the AAU, you have a better chance of getting research grants. Being in the AAU helps you keep on track with regard to research (lobbying, getting good faculty, etc.).

Does it make a difference if you're in the AAU? Who knows, but a majority of research does go to AAU institutions. What if your school lost accreditation? It would still be the same school, so would it really matter?

Faculty don't care about the what athletic conference their school belongs to; many of them don't even know what conference they're in. They don't really even care about the overall academic standing of their school. What they care about is their department and the corresponding departments at other schools. Someone at Harvard would have no qualms about working with someone at West Virginia. They would only care about where their departments are ranked. They would care who's on the faculty in the corresponding department, what projects they have going, etc.

 

[Adios]

We can market ourselves so easily. I think B1G fans would appreciate a road trip to NJ, NY and/or New England every year. The league would still be Chicago-cenrtric, but spread into and completely dominate the tri-state area/southern New England market.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Oh really...so we're supposed to believe Wikipedia and other websites are wrong on this and you're right... So you're saying that Syracuse got kicked out last year? Show me a link...

90% time you can get away with quickly looking something up and acting like you know what you're talking about. This wasn't one of those times.

the only piece I read was that Syracuse and Nebraska were both notified that their membership was going under review at the same time. While Nebraska elected to have their membership come to a vote, Syracuse elected to leave on their own.
Was Syracuse voted out? No. Did they leave on their own? yes.
What would the vote have been had they decided to persue that route? Nobody knows, but there is a reason Syracuse elected not to go to a vote...

Was Marinatto terminated, or did he resign on his own? It's debatable. My belief is that he was shown the writing on the wall and the BE Presidents wanted a change. Rather than smearing his name which is all too common, they did it the professional way and allowed him to resign.

I think this was a similar issue with Syracuse and AAU. They were't going to get the votes, they knew it, and rather than go through a process like Nebraska, they bowed out.

And for the record, I didn't need to look up whether Nebraska was in the AAU. I actually remembered the articles from when they were voted out. I will concede that a school needs to be an AAU member to be 'invited' to the Big10 may still apply (unless you're ND). But the conference can no longer state all schools are AAU members.

 

[upstater]

The reason why it's so valuable to be in the AAU is that research grants often go to many universities. If you aren't in the AAU, you will get passed over for those jointly awarded research grants.

Once the school is awarded a grant, it keeps the money it gets from those grants; the money is used to pay the researchers. But in order to get those grants, it really helps to be in the AAU. That doesn't mean you wouldn't get research grants if you're not in the AAU. You would get a lot more if you are in the AAU. The lobbyists lobby on behalf the AAU members.

The Big 10 doesn't actually make money from you being in the AAU. It's just a point of prestige.

LOL, you continue to make the same mistake. Grants are not rewarded based on lobbying.

 

[upstater]

Nonsense. I've spent much of my career in academia at top research universities, and my wife is on the Harvard faculty. AAU membership does nothing to help anyone get a research grant. Principal investigators at the collaborating institutions organize the grant proposal and it's evaluated by independent review panels selected by the government with no consideration as to whether anyone is from an AAU institution. Any institution with a research agreement with the federal government can participate in such a collaboration; the vast majority of these are not in the AAU. PIs at AAU institutions are quite happy to collaborate with PIs at non-AAU institutions, so long as their top-quality people who will help them get funded.

+1

 

[upstater]

The major practical purpose of the AAU is research.

No, the purpose is lobbying to have congress fund the national foundations.

If you're in the AAU, you have a better chance of getting research grants.

Please explain why this is so. What dynamic produces this result? And, since you already stated that you believe the AAU is involved in securing research grants, how do you come about your knowledge of that process?

Being in the AAU helps you keep on track with regard to research (lobbying, getting good faculty, etc.).

What does this even mean? Keeps you on track? Wha?

 

[CL82]

This is one of the funniest threads I've seen in a long time. Part of me is thinking "staying down lv99, just stay down" but the rest of me is enjoying a world class @ss whoopin'. I nearly spit my coffee out when he said "The problem is you are referring to original documents , but I'm relying on Wikipedia. Ever heard of that site?"

 

[pj]

Iv99, the key point is that the AAU is a lobbying organization and only a lobbying organization. Its goal is to persuade Congress to appropriate lots of money for university-hosted research. But its lobbying has little effect, because no one in Congress wants to cut university funding but there is no money to increase it. Its members want membership to be a mark of prestige so that they get some marketing/branding value in exchange for their $80k/year contribution. Thus, they impose stringent membership criteria. This exclusivity is purely for show. If the organization were doing anything of real value, then they would want more members in order to strengthen the organization.

No school is going to let AAU membership determine the future of its athletic programs. There is no relationship between the AAU and athletics.

 

[UCFBfan]

This is one of the funniest threads I've seen in a long time. Part of me is thinking "staying down lv99, just stay down" but the rest of me is enjoying a world class @ss whoopin'. I nearly spit my coffee out when he said "The problem is you are referring to original documents , but I'm relying on Wikipedia. Ever heard of that site?"

I've had the same thought but I give the guy credit for persistence! He's not going down without a fight!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[auggie22]

I'm not convinced IV99 is being serious. This reads like some Sasha Baron Cohen stunt.

 

[Waquoit]

I'd suggest you enjoy the holiday and sleep the sleep of angels.

But first, drink heavily.