OT: Pats v. Chiefs

[superjohn]

Pinkhatting absolutely started with Boston.

Bandwagoning did not.

(I'm not a Sox or Pats fan. UConn-Mets-Celtics)

Thank you. I thought everyone knew this, apparently that's not the case.

 

[Stainmaster]

I've never liked bandwagon Yankees fans or bandwagon fans of any team, I've also never heard them called pink hats or nationers because they aren't terms for Yankee fans and other bandwagoners. It's a Boston thing, you not knowing this leads me to believe you're a pink hat "fan" and refer to your team as "nation."

I don’t need to prove my worth as a fan to someone who doesn’t know me, much less the amount of time and resources I expend in following my preferred teams.

 

[storrsroars]

The most accomplished, and probably the best mind for the game and competitive spirit, but as far as the actual mechanics and athletic requirements for being a successful quarterback, he’s not even top 5.

Throwing mechanics that important to you? Sorry to tell you you'll never get that Carson Palmer vs. Rex Grossman SB you've been waiting for.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Wow. you're too wrapped up in your sports teams.

I'm not getting in the middle of this entertaining back-and-forth, but isn't that an odd thing to write on this site?

 

[Rocktheworld]

Throwing mechanics that important to you? Sorry to tell you you'll never get that Carson Palmer vs. Rex Grossman SB you've been waiting for.

Nah bruh I’m riding Marinovich to glory

 

[mauconnfan]

Who doesn't recognize it? People love winners. It's just the way it is. Bandwagoners exist in every dynasty. Half the cowboys fans in the Country are a result of just that. Notre Dame? Same thing.

It's the reason you used to see all those Yankees hats when travelling overseas. Not as much now.

For the record, I still don't have a hat or tshirt.

Yankees hats and shirts are still everywhere, worldwide not sure what you see or watch.
Sorry this is much different like it or not. I lived through it when I moved to WesMass in 90 from central CT. Promise hardly heard a peep or saw a piece of apparel through the late 80s and 90s age did not matter. Now every person that knows nothing about who plays now never mind prior to 2002 is annoying and arrogant. You can disagree but I don’t care it’s real. Reality is good for them they have a real winner (s) to root for but just relax if you don’t know who Steve Grogan or Raymond Berry is.

 

[mauconnfan]

His numbers in the post season dwarf most everybody else's. Leaving wins out of it.

Brady’s got 16 career playoff game with a 100+ passer rating... more than Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers and Philip Rivers combined.



That raw ability you are talking about is only a part of being a QB. You're basically saying that Brady isn't great at this one piece, so all the other important pieces of the position don't matter. When in fact, the other pieces don't matter as much. Look at Jamarcus Russell. Dude had more of it than anyone I've seen. But he was junk because he didn't have anything else. I mean, Montana is well behind guys like Rodgers, Mahomes, Marino etc in a lot of these things, but he's a better QB than all of them. There's more to it.

The two most important components of being a great QB, according to BB, is 1. accuracy and 2. intelligence. Brady has those in spades. Brady's pocket presence, ability to diagnose a defense presnap, recognize the mismatch, make the right decisions pre and post snap are unparalleled. Along with that pinpoint accuracy, those are the most important QB characteristics. All the athletic ability in the world doesn't matter if you have that. And of course, as you alluded to, he's got every intangible in the book.

In terms of raw physical ability, sure, other guys are better. Although I don't know what you are talking about in regards to 'mechanics', as Brady is known to have some of the best and most consistent throwing mechanics of all time; they
are damn near perfect. Listen to other QBs/analysts talk about them (can't be bothered to google right now); I see it all the time.

He throws a hard, heavy ball (due to extremely tight fast spiral) hasn't dipped much with age. Underrated arm strength.

If you add up all the components (while he's lesser on some), he's ahead of everyone else. It's like a Madden score.

There's not a single QB in history who I'd rather have under center with the game on the line. I think most NFL analysts and players would agree but that's jmo.




Great QBs make their defenses better. Bill Barnwell had a fantastic piece of analysis on this a month or two ago, but I can't find it at the moment. I will continue to look for it. [EDIT: I found something similar, but I don't think it's the one I remember, I'll put in a separate post below for legibility reasons]

Most importantly, field position. The offense moves the ball enough to consistently have great field position for the defense to start in if they fail to score.

People complained about Brady 'dinking and dunking' most of the game, but that served the purpose of keeping Mahomes off the field, and the defense rested. The fact is, most QBs can't do this, or they would. Because it's unstoppable.

The defense remains fresher for the critical end of game moments when you need to make a play. Gives you a mental edge as well. When an offense always gives you a chance like that, as a defender, you feel like you can always make the plays necessary to win the game.

He’s better than everyone I agree really do. But he wasn’t better than Mahomes this year despite what he has in spades.

 

[intlzncster]

He’s better than everyone I agree really do. But he wasn’t better than Mahomes this year despite what he has in spades.

I totally agree with that mau. Mahomes was unreal this year, better than Brady, Brees, Rodgers and the lot. Has a limitless future. Gonna be fun to watch him. I'm already a fan. Even if we lost.

On top of that, Brady had a patchwork offense this year (26 transactions at receiver! I still can't believe that), and the team wasn't really dialed in. Didn't help, but give Mahomes his well deserved due.

 

[intlzncster]

Yankees hats and shirts are still everywhere, worldwide not sure what you see or watch.
Sorry this is much different like it or not. I lived through it when I moved to WesMass in 90 from central CT. Promise hardly heard a peep or saw a piece of apparel through the late 80s and 90s age did not matter. Now every person that knows nothing about who plays now never mind prior to 2002 is annoying and arrogant. You can disagree but I don’t care it’s real. Reality is good for them they have a real winner (s) to root for but just relax if you don’t know who Steve Grogan or Raymond Berry is.

You also gotta take into account that you can only say that about old people. Everyone under 35 or so has only known winning since they were kids.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I totally agree with that mau. Mahomes was unreal this year, better than Brady, Brees, Rodgers and the lot. Has a limitless future. Gonna be fun to watch him. I'm already a fan. Even if we lost.

On top of that, Brady had a patchwork offense this year (26 transactions at receiver! I still can't believe that), and the team wasn't really dialed in. Didn't help, but give Mahomes his well deserved due.

Mahomes is gonna own the AFC for the next decade. I still can't get over the fact that this Pats team is in the Super Bowl. Dante Scarnecchia should be getting MVP votes.

 

[White Dwarf]

 

[Dove]

Who thinks GRONK(!!!) retires after this season?

 

[intlzncster]

Thought this was an interesting stat, for those who think the Brady wins because they have good D.

​

Brady is 11-8 in the playoffs when his defenses allow more than 20 points.​

Kurt Warner is 5-3.​

No one else is over .500.​

(Peyton is 3-10)​

 

[storrsroars]

A lot of people are calling for everything to be reviewable after the Saints-Rams game. The problem is that If you look close enough you could find some sort of penalty (holding, illegal contact...). Some coach is going to hold a challenge in his pocket for a 4th quarter drive where they fail to pick up a 3rd and short or a 4th down and throw the challenge flag for a borderline hold or contact at 5.1 yards just to keep the drive alive. This is why I think if something is done it has to be a booth official with the ability to buzz in.

And so what? Coaches hold challenge flags until the 4thQ already and use them just for the hell of it on plays that are 50/50 at best. Wouldn't make a difference to me if it were over a called penalty or an uncalled penalty instead of what can currently be challenged. And wouldn't make a difference in adding time to the game.

While I'm good with an official buzzing in in last two minutes when there's supposed to be an on-field review, doing so throughout the game would be onerous. Just look at the number of uncalled facemask penalties and holds in the Saints/Rams game - that's a lot of potential stoppages.

 

[upstater]

And so what? Coaches hold challenge flags until the 4thQ already and use them just for the hell of it on plays that are 50/50 at best. Wouldn't make a difference to me if it were over a called penalty or an uncalled penalty instead of what can currently be challenged. And wouldn't make a difference in adding time to the game.

While I'm good with an official buzzing in in last two minutes when there's supposed to be an on-field review, doing so throughout the game would be onerous. Just look at the number of uncalled facemask penalties and holds in the Saints/Rams game - that's a lot of potential stoppages.

If the review doesn't come from the challenge, where the coach has to describe to the refs what he's challenging, there's an even bigger problem. The booth reviews have the discretion to review every singe part of the play. So, with Roughing the Passer on Brady on Sunday, how do they then ignore the blatant pass interference on Edelman on the same play? After all, it's not the coaches who are challenging the call/non-call. It is the booth review looking at the play.

 

[huskyrob1]

Both of the games are close today but it's just cr@p football. The refs and rulebook have made a mockery of the sport.

Well at least they still play by the rules in college with respect to offensive holding by lineman. Sacks in the NFL are becoming fewer and fewer. The NFL is allowing holding now by offensive lineman to protect quarterbacks, refs just look the other way. The NFL really doesn't have a choice here, the more retired QB's that announce they are suffering from CTE the worse things will get. If they play by the rules it could mean the death of the sport. It's no coincidence that Brady wasn't sacked once by the Chiefs. Over a couple of years of getting clocked a few times by a defensive lineman in college probably will not bring on CTE but the same thing in the NFL over a 10 or 15 year career very well might, and the league knows that. I've heard some wild suggestions on rulebook changes from only being allowed to tackle a QB from the waist down to mandatory multi game rests for QB's who have been sacked more than three times per game, much like in baseball where pitchers unofficially need three days rest after pitching.

 

[intlzncster]

And so what? Coaches hold challenge flags until the 4thQ already and use them just for the hell of it on plays that are 50/50 at best. Wouldn't make a difference to me if it were over a called penalty or an uncalled penalty instead of what can currently be challenged. And wouldn't make a difference in adding time to the game.

Lord knows they spent at least 5 total minutes determining that the game clock was indeed correct on multiple occasions.

I'd just like to say, I am forever thankful that the Pats were not the Rams on Sunday. We'd never, ever, ever hear the end of that.

 

[superjohn]

The refs dont treat Tom Brady any differently than...wait...did he just fist bump his butt? Mancountry™

 

[intlzncster]

The refs dont treat Tom Brady any differently than...wait...did he just fist bump his butt? Mancountry™

If you have a chance to tell the grand kids you touched Tom Brady's , you take that chance. Every time. No brainer.

 

[intlzncster]

Well at least they still play by the rules in college with respect to offensive holding by lineman. Sacks in the NFL are becoming fewer and fewer. The NFL is allowing holding now by offensive lineman to protect quarterbacks, refs just look the other way. The NFL really doesn't have a choice here, the more retired QB's that announce they are suffering from CTE the worse things will get. If they play by the rules it could mean the death of the sport. It's no coincidence that Brady wasn't sacked once by the Chiefs. Over a couple of years of getting clocked a few times by a defensive lineman in college probably will not bring on CTE but the same thing in the NFL over a 10 or 15 year career very well might, and the league knows that. I've heard some wild suggestions on rulebook changes from only being allowed to tackle a QB from the waist down to mandatory multi game rests for QB's who have been sacked more than three times per game, much like in baseball where pitchers unofficially need three days rest after pitching.

While it does take away from the game a bit, I get why they changed the rules. Guys are too big, too fast, and too strong to be teeing off on QBs these days.

 

[upstater]

Lord knows they spent at least 5 total minutes determining that the game clock was indeed correct on multiple occasions.

I'd just like to say, I am forever thankful that the Pats were not the Rams on Sunday. We'd never, ever, ever hear the end of that.

In KC right now, a TV news report showed a green laser shining on Brady's face during the play he threw the INT off of Edelman's fingers. So now police and the NFL investigation unit is looking into it.

Imagine if this happened in Foxboro. I didn't even hear anything about this until today even though the news broke right after the game.

 

[storrsroars]

If the review doesn't come from the challenge, where the coach has to describe to the refs what he's challenging, there's an even bigger problem. The booth reviews have the discretion to review every singe part of the play. So, with Roughing the Passer on Brady on Sunday, how do they then ignore the blatant pass interference on Edelman on the same play? After all, it's not the coaches who are challenging the call/non-call. It is the booth review looking at the play.

Why would they have to ignore that if they see it?

 

[upstater]

While it does take away from the game a bit, I get why they changed the rules. Guys are too big, too fast, and too strong to be teeing off on QBs these days.

And there is no added to allowing them to tee off on the QBs. The QBs are still getting hit right after they throw the ball but now at least their head is more protected and, I'd add so are their shoulders since the 300 pounders can't drive them into the ground. I don't see the problem at all.

 

[superjohn]

If you have a chance to tell the grand kids you touched Tom Brady's , you take that chance. Every time. No brainer.

Everyone thinks officials celebrated with Patriots, handed them AFC championship

 

[upstater]

Why would they have to ignore that if they see it?

Two reasons. With the coaches challenge, the refs are prevented from reviewing anything not specifically described by the coaches, and the coach can only challenge one specific aspect. With the booth reviews, it's more arbitrary. Are they going to review the actions of every player on the field? Or, perhaps, they will only review actions inside the pocket or where the ball goes. So, for instance, a hold on a DB across the field might have materially impacted the play (the WR might be the QBs #1 option) but the TV guys can only address a very limited number of actions.