Parker off Olympic team? | Page 15 | The Boneyard

Parker off Olympic team?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Icebear said:
It was already in the plan from the vision of this year's team. It was discussed during the Final Four when Beth Mowins noted at 5:32 of the 3rd period against Oregon State game that Breanna was expected to be the college student put on the team. So without any regard to the inclusion or exclusion of Candace Parker Stewie was going to be on the team.
Expand ...

Not sure we want to take Beth Mowins word for gospel. If CP was not a lock to make this team I fail to see how Beth could determined that Stewie was a lock.
I also disagree with your premise that Candace was competing with Tina, Fowles or Griner for a spot because they are centers not PF and Angel is not a PF.
So based on the explanation from the selection committee- "PF was the strength of the team" and CP fell short that would leave her competing with Stewie, EDD, & Catch?.

If you were to evaluate CP against Stewie, EDD, & Catch against the statically categories you mentioned she would win these categories overwhelmingly:
  • Assists: share the ball
  • Rebounding Defensive (controlling opponents second chances and easy clean up hoops)
  • Rebounding Offensive (gaining second chances and putting the ball back in or getting to the line)
  • International experience (understanding the difference in how the game is called)
  • Previous experience with USA Basketball
If you were to evaluate CP against Stewie, EDD, & Catch against the statically categories you mentioned she would be competitive in these categories:
  • Consider shooting %s (efficiency)
  • Post strength body check defense (stop opponents bigs from getting to the low block)
  • Perimeter defense (controlling shot quality whether 3s or slashing to the hoop)
  • Defensive rotation (quickness to proper position avoiding a foul, not just blocking a shot)
  • On ball defense (Keeping a player in front of you and not making a teammate vulnerable on rotation)
  • Foul shooting
  • Propensity to get in foul trouble
If you were to evaluate CP against Stewie, EDD, & Catch against this category she would finish dead last :
  • 3pt %s: spread the floor
@easttexastrash has already proposed this as a possible reason for the exclusion of CP and @meyers7 has endorsed it. I agree with both of them. If the selection committee puts a premium of long range shooting then CP is not the one when compared to EDD and Stewie. But please don't make it out like CP was going to lose on any other statistical basis and especially not these.
 
HoopsFan21 said:
"Geno was in the hospital for most of last week, so who knows much input he had in selecting the team, but he should give an explanation as to why Parker was left off."
Expand ...
Disagree strongly that Geno should give this explanation. He was not part of the "published" USA basketball selection committee.
 
HoopsFan21 said:
"Geno was in the hospital for most of last week, so who knows much input he had in selecting the team, but he should give an explanation as to why Parker was left off."
Expand ...
Not his place to make that explanation but it is indeed USA Basketball's job to do.
 
Orangutan said:
I get a dictionary definition of innocuous as "Not harmful or offensive". Posting a highlight isn't harming anything (besides maybe her chances of future USAB selection) and I don't think it's offensive except perhaps to the sensibilities of those who already don't like her. Reasonable minds can disagree, though, especially on issues of semantics.
Expand ...
Oh it was meant to be offensive. I'm ok with that, but let's call it what it is.
 
Wally East said:
So, look up Isiah Thomas' stats from the '92 Dream Team. I'll wait.

Oh, you can't find them? That's weird. He was a perennial All-Star and one of the NBA's best point guards. How could he have not been selected for the '92 Olympic team?

Oh, you found this quote from Magic Johnson about him: "Isiah killed his own chances when it came to the Olympics. Nobody on that team wanted to play with him."

Huh. Maybe sometimes attitude does matter?

(Which is not to say is the case here, simply that it is the case sometimes.)
Expand ...
If I could like this post 1,000 times I would. It appears there are 2 issues with Candace, and if you look at Icebear's questions regarding what she brings to the team, maybe 3.
  1. She scheduled her surgeries to minimize the time off with regards to making $$ in the WNBA and overseas, but it caused her to miss the 2010 AND 2014 World Championships
  2. Unconfirmed rumor deleted by mod
  3. When you look at the other 4/5 players on the team, in spite of Parker's all around greatness, she may not match up favorably with the players chosen ahead of her
 
.-.
ericsandiego said:
Not even sure I'd say it was meant to be offensive. I'd go with it was more meant to say "F* you".
Expand ...
I would say that's offensive. And it probably won't help her any IF there is an injury and they need a replacement. But she may not be interested at this point anyway.
 
CocoHusky said:
Not sure we want to take Beth Mowins word for gospel. If CP was not a lock to make this team I fail to see how Beth could determined that Stewie was a lock.
I also disagree with your premise that Candace was competing with Tina, Fowles or Griner for a spot because they are centers not PF and Angel is not a PF.
So based on the explanation from the selection committee- "PF was the strength of the team" and CP fell short that would leave her competing with Stewie, EDD, & Catch?.

If you were to evaluate CP against Stewie, EDD, & Catch against the statically categories you mentioned she would win these categories overwhelmingly:
  • Assists: share the ball
  • Rebounding Defensive (controlling opponents second chances and easy clean up hoops)
  • Rebounding Offensive (gaining second chances and putting the ball back in or getting to the line)
If you were to evaluate CP against Stewie, EDD, & Catch against the statically categories you mentioned she would be competitive in these categories:
  • Consider shooting %s (efficiency)
  • Foul shooting
  • Propensity to get in foul trouble
If you were to evaluate CP against Stewie, EDD, & Catch against this category she would finish dead last :
  • 3pt %s: spread the floor
Expand ...

Decided to check some of these just out of my own curiosity. Leaving out Stewie because the competition isn’t the same. Some of Parker’s stats are way up last year when she only played the 2nd half of the season. I’m using her last full season (2014) for these and 2015 for EDD and Catch. And noting significant deviations from career averages when applicable.

Assists (per 36) – CP 4.6, EDD 1.5, TC 3.0 – advantage CP
Defensive rebounds (per 36) – CP 6.7 (career 8.1) , EDD 7.0, CP 7.3 – even recently, advantage CP overall
Offensive rebounds (per 36) – CP 1.1 (career 2.1), EDD 2.1, TC 2.3 – roughly even
2 pt % - CP 49.4, EDD 51.2, TC 40.2 (career 43.9) – slight advantage EDD
3 pt % - CP 30.6 (31.6 career), EDD 31.3 (36.5 career), TC 29.5 (35.6 career) – roughly even recently, EDD slightly better than TC overall
Effective FG% - CP 48.9, EDD 50.1, TC 41.0 (46.7 career) – slight advantage EDD
True shooting % - CP 55.0, EDD 59.1, TC 50.3 (54.3 career) – advantage EDD
Free throw rate (fta/fga) – CP .338, EDD .422, .440 TC – slight advantage TC
Free throw % - CP 84.6 (career 76.3), EDD 95.0, TC 86.8 – advantage EDD
Personal fouls (per 36) – CP 1.8, EDD 1.8, TC 3.4 (3.1 career) – even between CP and EDD

Parker wins on assists and is slightly the best rebounder but that’s close. EDD is the most efficient shooter/scorer though Parker is very efficient also. TC is probably still the best defender of the group, especially on the perimeter. She does foul more but I think’s just a function of being aggressive and roughly 1 more foul per game is an acceptable trade-off.
 
CocoHusky said:
Not sure we want to take Beth Mowins word for gospel. If CP was not a lock to make this team I fail to see how Beth could determined that Stewie was a lock.
I also disagree with your premise that Candace was competing with Tina, Fowles or Griner for a spot because they are centers not PF and Angel is not a PF.
So based on the explanation from the selection committee- "PF was the strength of the team" and CP fell short that would leave her competing with Stewie, EDD, & Catch?.

If you were to evaluate CP against Stewie, EDD, & Catch against the statically categories you mentioned she would win these categories overwhelmingly:
  • Assists: share the ball
  • Rebounding Defensive (controlling opponents second chances and easy clean up hoops)
  • Rebounding Offensive (gaining second chances and putting the ball back in or getting to the line)
  • International experience (understanding the difference in how the game is called)
  • Previous experience with USA Basketball
If you were to evaluate CP against Stewie, EDD, & Catch against the statically categories you mentioned she would be competitive in these categories:
  • Consider shooting %s (efficiency)
  • Post strength body check defense (stop opponents bigs from getting to the low block)
  • Perimeter defense (controlling shot quality whether 3s or slashing to the hoop)
  • Defensive rotation (quickness to proper position avoiding a foul, not just blocking a shot)
  • On ball defense (Keeping a player in front of you and not making a teammate vulnerable on rotation)
  • Foul shooting
  • Propensity to get in foul trouble
If you were to evaluate CP against Stewie, EDD, & Catch against this category she would finish dead last :
  • 3pt %s: spread the floor
@easttexastrash has already proposed this as a possible reason for the exclusion of CP and @meyers7 has endorsed it. I agree with both of them. If the selection committee puts a premium of long range shooting then CP is not the one when compared to EDD and Stewie. But please don't make it out like CP was going to lose on any other statistical basis and especially not these.
Expand ...

Without having had knowledge of the fact that it was already expected to be part of the USA Basketball plan Mowins had no need or reason to make the statement. As has been widely reported it is part of a long standing action by USA Basketball. These are reporters who I am sure asked the question knowing the tradition and passed it on.

As to the rest I agree with much of your analysis but it is not clear she was enough of a lock over everyone. Ex. CP does not play well on D against big physical centers. See the game against the Aussies where a smaller AJ player Cabbage much tougher than CP did. Nor is she a competitive perimeter defender. Stewie for example has much more international experience with USAB than does CP who only leads if you limit international USAB play to the Olympics. Honestly, I would take her over Catchings but Catchings loyalty to USAB probably held sway there.
 
Icebear said:
Without having had knowledge of the fact that it was already expected to be part of the USA Basketball plan Mowins had no need or reason to make the statement. As has been widely reported it is part of a long standing action by USA Basketball. These are reporters who I am sure asked the question knowing the tradition and passed it on.

As to the rest I agree with much of your analysis but it is not clear she was enough of a lock over everyone. Ex. CP does not play well on D against big physical centers. See the game against the Aussies where a smaller AJ player Cabbage much tougher than CP did. Nor is she a competitive perimeter defender. Stewie for example has much more international experience with USAB than does CP who only leads if you limit international USAB play to the Olympics. Honestly, I would take her over Catchings but Catchings loyalty to USAB probably held sway there.
Expand ...
If CP is playing center for USA in Olympics we are in trouble.

Stewie does not have more International experience or USA basketball than CP no matter how you slice it.
CP -2004-Present=12 years
BS -2009-Present=7 years.
 
.-.
Orangutan said:
Decided to check some of these just out of my own curiosity. Leaving out Stewie because the competition isn’t the same. Some of Parker’s stats are way up last year when she only played the 2nd half of the season. I’m using her last full season (2014) for these and 2015 for EDD and Catch. And noting significant deviations from career averages when applicable.

Assists (per 36) – CP 4.6, EDD 1.5, TC 3.0 – advantage CP
Defensive rebounds (per 36) – CP 6.7 (career 8.1) , EDD 7.0, CP 7.3 – even recently, advantage CP overall I call this presently even
Offensive rebounds (per 36) – CP 1.1 (career 2.1), EDD 2.1, TC 2.3 – roughly even agreed
2 pt % - CP 49.4, EDD 51.2, TC 40.2 (career 43.9) – slight advantage EDD roughly even
3 pt % - CP 30.6 (31.6 career), EDD 31.3 (36.5 career), TC 29.5 (35.6 career) – roughly even recently, EDD slightly better than TC overall agreed
Effective FG% - CP 48.9, EDD 50.1, TC 41.0 (46.7 career) – slight advantage EDD very slight
True shooting % - CP 55.0, EDD 59.1, TC 50.3 (54.3 career) – advantage EDD agreed
Free throw rate (fta/fga) – CP .338, EDD .422, .440 TC – slight advantage TC CP trails in this
Free throw % - CP 84.6 (career 76.3), EDD 95.0, TC 86.8 – advantage EDD agreed
Personal fouls (per 36) – CP 1.8, EDD 1.8, TC 3.4 (3.1 career) – even between CP and EDD agreed

Parker wins on assists and is slightly the best rebounder but that’s close. EDD is the most efficient shooter/scorer though Parker is very efficient also. TC is probably still the best defender of the group, especially on the perimeter. She does foul more but I think’s just a function of being aggressive and roughly 1 more foul per game is an acceptable trade-off.
Expand ...

So looking at the numbers CP is not the clear runaway for selection over EDD and if your need is perimeter defense TC has an argument to make as well. Point being this is not as devastatingly shocking as some might want to argue. Thanks for checking the numbers. On top of this add in the intangibles like are argued elsewhere and the issue is certainly debatable for the election of all those involved with strong arguments to be made for all parties.
 
CocoHusky said:
If CP is playing center for USA in Olympics we are in trouble.

Stewie does not have more International experience or USA basketball than CP no matter how you slice it.
CP -2004-Present=12 years
BS -2009-Present=7 years.
Expand ...
Be accurate, I said USAB international experience there are gaps in CP's years. None in Stewie's. Stewie has played for USAB every year since she was 14 and was often playing up in age by as much as two years. Parker skipped World Cups and Pan American Games. No one has won more games or titles with USAB than Stewie. But yet again Stewie was never going to be the player left off of this team. She filled the spot traditionally designated for a college player or emerging graduate.
 
Last edited:
HuskyNan said:
Is there an actual source for this information? I can't find any references to this anywhere.
Expand ...
You know where this info is coming from. But I will refrain from saying anything further until someone from the committee or team goes on record.
 
Icebear said:
Be accurate, I said USAB international experience there are gaps in CP's years. None in Stewie's. Stewie has played for USAB every year since she was 14 and was often playing up in age by as much as two years. Parker skipped World Cups and Pan American Games. No one has won more games or titles with USAB than Stewie. But yet again Stewie was never going to be the player left off of this team. She filled the spot traditionally designated for a college player or emerging graduate.
Expand ...
I see why you want to limit international experience to USA basketball now. How'sis this for accurate: CP plays on UMMC Ekaterinburg with Sue Bird & Diana Taurasi in the best women's basketball league in the world. One season on UMMC is more international experience and significantly higher level of completion than Stewie's entire experience for USA basketball.
 
.-.
I'm locking this thread because even UConn fans are starting to argue with each other. There are plenty of other threads to continue the discussion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,388
Messages
4,570,124
Members
10,475
Latest member
Tunwin22


Top Bottom