Parker off Olympic team?

[CocoHusky]

What stat are you pointing towards from the Olympics.

Shotblocking in which CP led the team in the 2012 Olympics.
Rebounding in which CP led the team in the 2012 Olympics.
A perimeter player simply cannot over a series of games lead the best team in the world in those two categories without busting it with both on the ball defense and executing proper defensive rotations. #NOTPOSSIBLE! The game tapes are on youtube. There were two exceptional defensive players from the 2012 USA Olympic team CP was one and the other was Angel who was at times a game changing menace defensively.

 

[Icebear]

Angel is a far better defensive player than CP.

 

[Icebear]

Shotblocking in which CP led the team in the 2012 Olympics.
Rebounding in which CP led the team in the 2012 Olympics.
A perimeter player simply cannot over a series of games lead the best team in the world in those two categories without busting it with both on the ball defense and executing proper defensive rotations. #NOTPOSSIBLE! The game tapes are on youtube. There were two exceptional defensive players from the 2012 USA Olympic team CP was one and the other was Angel who was at times a game changing menace defensively.

The stat I would be more interested in with CP is her +/- while playing.

 

[Orangutan]

What you are proposing is preposterous=basketball sacrilege. A post player like Zahui B must always rotate to the ball. Think about it. What? She's going to rotate (away) from the ball when the ball is already in the post at the basket? She also not going to stay with her man because the most dangerous player on the floor is the one with the ball. He teammates are counting on that rotation. Do you really not understand this or are you just pulling my leg?

Not pulling your leg. My observation is that Zahui didn't get blocks from rotating over. She got blocks from people coming straight at her spot in Minnesota's zone.

*shrug*

 

[CocoHusky]

This is not true at all. Griner had record blocks just waiting at the base of the D and letting players come to her. She made little rotation. Watching CP throughout college she regularly was lost by players and did not rotate well. Stats do not tell you about breakdowns that lead to certain stat accumulations.

This is almost comical. A blocked shot is not recorded unless you are literally on the ball. If you are already in the post and the ball is also in the post WHERE are you rotating to? Career Stats: CP 2.4 Blocks/Game : Breanna Stewart 2.7 Blocks/Game.

 

[CocoHusky]

Not pulling your leg. My observation is that Zahui didn't get blocks from rotating over. She got blocks from people coming straight at her spot in Minnesota's zone.

*shrug*

If you are already in the post and the ball is also in the post WHERE are you rotating to? SMH.

 

[Orangutan]

If you are already in the post and the ball is also in the post WHERE are you rotating to? SMH.

I'm not saying she was doing anything wrong. She was doing what that defense asked of her. But those weren't blocks that came from rotations. I guess it's "on-ball" defense of a sort but when I think of "on-ball" defense I'm thinking about trying to stop someone from getting in the lane in the first place not blocking their shot when they've already done so.

Anyhow, yes, some blocks come from making rotations. But that's just one part of playing good defense. Closing out on 3-point shooters is unlikely to lead to blocks but is important to playing great team defense. That kind of thing doesn't show up in stats.

 

[meyers7]

I think the 2018 WC may well be a huge transition - Catchings and Bird gone, and certainly questions about DT, Whalen, Augustus, McCoughtry, and Fowles that I think if still there in 2018 will certainly not make the 2020 Olympic team - that is at least seven openings off of this team - five new guard/wings a center and a forward.

I expect DT to hang around for at least the WC's (2018), or try to. Augustus too.

Fowles is only 30. She has a decent shot at the 2020's. If Catchings, Bird, DT, Whalen can all play at 34+, Fowles might/should be able to also. McCoughtry will only be 33. She might have another in her also.

 

[meyers7]

The more I think about this decision, I think it comes back to shooting ability. As good as Parker is, she is not as good a shooter as either Stewart or EDD, which are most likely the two players she was competing against fort the final sport on the roster. I am thinking that the committee decided to go with the best shooters, which may have been where Parker was considered weaker.

You are probably on to something there.

 

[CocoHusky]

Angel is a far better defensive player than CP.

Apples, oranges & bananas. CP is PF and occasionally SF. Angel is SG and occasionally SF.

 

[CocoHusky]

You are probably on to something there.

Easily supported by the numbers too.

 

[meyers7]

We've spent 3 or 4 days getting into it and finally flamed out.
What the wider community...esp players think is significant, very significant
Has to do with the rights and prerogatives of labor and all that Jazz; very American.

Probably won't change anything, at least now.
But may very well affect the process in the future.

I think its important, very important.

Dev is a tough young lady, I commend her for being (the first)? active player to take a stance.
Will the floodgates now open?...we'll see.

What does she have against EDD? (the only "rookie" on the WNT)

 

[meyers7]

thanks for providing facts. CP3 should be on the team. Bone and Peters are closer to the game than any of us and is just showing their respect for CP3's talent. You have your opinion and so should they

I think the point is, why should we care about their opinion.

 

[UcMiami]

Pat wasn't the WC/Olympic coach in 2006/2008, so how could she impose influence over who was selected. Also, Candace didn't take the spot of a Lisa Leslie/Diana/Sue at the time.

If Geno was only the coach at UConn, and had no affiliation with USA Basketball in over 20 years (like Pat at that time), there wouldn't be the questions of coaching influence regarding Stewart being on the team over Candace.

Well if you listen to some people Pat was women's basketball and her influence was far reaching but I grant the point.

On the 2006 team Parker was chosen over 13 WNBA all stars that year some of whom had been on the previous USA teams and the same sort of situation in 2008 though there was no all star game that year. That 2006 team is the only 'blemish' on the NT team record in a very long time.

 

[Wally East]

Here's a link the 2015 WNBA leader board for all the stats.

CP led the league in apg, which I didn't know.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'll start off by saying personally I would have picked Parker over a couple of the vets but there is a credible argument for leaving her off the team and it's purely tactical.

Floor Spacing- Think about it. Candace operates out of the post and generally doesn't have much outside range (About a 30% 3pt shooter). This issue is compounded by the fact that she can't really guard opposing 5s. Which leads to the necessity that she plays next to one of Griner, Fowles, or Charles. This limits the space for those bigs to operate and get their touches in as well as the overall team spacing in general. This has been a recurring issue with the Sparks and led to talk of them trading Ogwumike because of it

Instead by having stretch bigs (Delle Donne, Stewart and to a somewhat lesser extent Catchings) the team has ideal floor spacing with one big in the post and the rest on the floor having outside shooting without any sacrifices to the team's defense. In addition those three stretch bigs are exceptional shot blockers and help defenders. I also imagine Team USA plenty teams spreading them out with multiple shooters which makes having 2 post players not as comfortable guarding on the perimeter less than ideal.

I felt the need to post this somewhere as I saw nobody looking beyond the immediate hot take and the "She's a star" argument which is fair and expected. Again I still would have picked her over a few vets like Augustus or Catchings but there is some rationale behind leaving her off the team.

I agree about floor spacing. I think that is where part of the conversation lead. Plus she isn't "Dennis Rodman" on defense. I think it's the WRONG path. How good of shooters are Angel, Whelan and Catchings from 3? The beauty of Parker is that she is a tremendous slasher for her size. Has a great handle. She could get the ball to Griner at will. Between her and Griner the defense would have to collapse.

 

[Justavisitor]

Candace didn't play enough games to qualify for the leader board. I am surprised they are showing her assist. If she had qualified, she would have been 4th in pts, 1st in rebounds, 1st in assists, and more.

 

[Jmpenn]

Hi everyone. This situation has brought me out of posting retirement. I have been busy having a baby last year and then more recently back surgery. My 11th month old is in the 105th percentile in height and uconn can't have her. Lol.

Now about Parker being left off. I of course agree with many of you that she should be on the team. I would have picked her over about 8 players including one of my favorites Catch. Reason number 1 is her flexibility. USA basketball always talks about wanting players that can play a variety of positions since they can only take 12 players. Well that is Candace Parker. If you need her to she can bring the ball up or play in the post. Number 2. The second thing that sets her apart is her assists. I haven't looked it up but except the point guards and DT I bet she has the best assist numbers. Some try to say that she is selfish but she always try to get others involved and that is one of the most important things in USA basketball. That is one of DT's strengths also. These 2 strengths in my opinion set her apart from most of the other players. I want to thank everyone for defending her!!

 

[CocoHusky]

Hi everyone. This situation has brought me out of posting retirement. I have been busy having a baby last year and then more recently back surgery. My 11th month old is in the 105th percentile in height and uconn can't have her. Lol.

Now about Parker being left off. I of course agree with many of you that she should be on the team. I would have picked her over about 8 players including one of my favorites Catch. Reason number 1 is her flexibility. USA basketball always talks about wanting players that can play a variety of positions since they can only take 12 players. Well that is Candace Parker. If you need her to she can bring the ball up or play in the post. Number 2. The second thing that sets her apart is her assists. I haven't looked it up but except the point guards and DT I bet she has the best assist numbers. Some try to say that she is selfish but she always try to get others involved and that is one of the most important things in USA basketball. That is one of DT's strengths also. These 2 strengths in my opinion set her apart from most of the other players. I want to thank everyone for defending her!!

Welcome back. 105th percentile? Still not good enough for UCONN.
Very logical post I agree with all of your points.

 

[Plebe]

So much for her being classy about this whole thing. Candace just posted this a short time ago:

 

[Icebear]

Here's a link the 2015 WNBA leader board for all the stats.

CP led the league in apg, which I didn't know.

Thank you, Wally, those are the type of numbers that help. As I said I don't watch the W and would not have expected that. Assists and +/- tell you much more about all around play than rebounds and blocks.

 

[j66kicker]

So much for her being classy about this whole thing. Candace just posted this a short time ago:

Biting my tongue....

Note one of the many sympathetic Instagram comments on this video includes: "...I know this will come full circle for you..."
Hmmmm....maybe it just did.

 

[Orangutan]

She can't have a little fun with it by posting some highlights for a #tbt? She didn't make a particular comment with them. You can have an idea of what her intent *might* be but that's your projection onto an innocuous video.

 

[pinotbear]

So much for her being classy about this whole thing. Candace just posted this a short time ago:

whatever sympathy I had for Parker just vanished.

We don't know if Geno and USAWBB was living in the past, but, we now know that Candace was.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Regardless of the merits, details, and circumstances, this will fuel an anti-UConn narrative among players, fans, and the media.

Expect that many more people to be cheering our struggles next year.

 

[Plebe]

She can't have a little fun with it by posting some highlights for a #tbt? She didn't make a particular comment with them. You can have an idea of what her intent *might* be but that's your projection onto an innocuous video.

Yeah right.

 

[hoophuskee]

So far, Parker has played for Team USA in a total of 2 major international tournaments: the 2008 and 2012 Olympics. She did not play for the gold-medal winning Team USA at the 2010 World Championships, nor did she play for the gold-medal winning Team USA at the 2014 World Championships. I remember Team USA's gold medal was really won in the semi-final game against Australia. I remember that the Australian post players had their way with Team USA in that game until Tina Charles and Ashja Jones responded in the second half (Fowles was injured). I also remember that Candace Parker was virtually a no-show in that game, wanting no part of the physical Aussies. Parker played great in the gold medal game against France, a finesse team, but everyone knew the toughest game was against Australia.

So that's it. That's the sum total of Candace Parker's experience playing for Team USA. Can someone tell me why everyone cares so much that she's not on the Olympic team? I don't get it.

I care for several reasons. When I watched UCONN annihilate Miss State it was the beauty of watching greatness on display. Because in men's college basketball the star players leave early - you can never see it. In that Olympcis the game you cite vs France, I still remember Parker coming off the bench and they had Whelan and a much better ANgel in the lienup. Flying own the court on a fatsbreak - it was a thing of beauty. I love fastbreak basketball. I saw 6'4/6'5 Parker whom I usually root against handling the ball in the backcourt full speed with other super players. I wanted to see more of that. It's not that no oen else can do it- but no one at her size can do it and ook so graceful and also finsish in the manner she can as she's leading the break. The socre was irrelevant. Irrelvant whether it was Aussie or France. WHat I saw and was a bit heopful for more of- was watching this on display again. Just like with the UCONN women, the socre was irrelevant. It was the beauty of watching all-tiem great paleyr's play AT THEIR BEST. Watchign Parker play at her best, playing fastbreak basketball, is worth admission. I watch more wcbb than mcbb.

As a fan - I'd like to know the technical reason why she's not on. The reason that there are too manyother good 3/4's is BS to me. Tell me why. I want to know because in part I AM A FAN and I'd like to know how/why some dccsions (not all) are made. It's no different than listening to a postgame interview in which you want to listen and understand the coach's insighs and sometimes form what transpired. What transpired to allow her to be cut from a bit more technical perspective other - we just had too many others. BS. In this case Parker is one of the world's best. Is it that what makes her great they feel doesn't translate well to the women's game or was it more that she only wants to play on the Olympics? If they don't tell me - that's their decision. But as a fan I can still care because I'm a fan of the game and like to hear or read of some basketball play insights. And if I think what they are saying is BS-- well as a fan I am waving the BS flag. If they won't then they'll just have to get over a little criticism. They're big boys and girls.

I don't want the same thing happening to a UCONN player in the future I love in which the committee dumps a player I like a ton without a good explanation. I'll start to feel like some of the others feel that for example are huge fans of Parker and become bitter - I don't want to feel that way. I feel that Parker can be valuable vs that finesse team having the game of their lives. IMO her skillset warranted the selection. And while overall I might not "care as much" as "The Parker fan" I believe her style should have been used as tremendous asset just like what I remember four years ago vs France. I wanted to see that fastbreak style and this time - Parker would be told of her role to start - so maybe that hurt her some in 2012 when she struggled a bit. That's wasn't Geno's fault certainly. Geno's obligation is to the team so big deal if someone is hurt a little regarding starting. But Parker's role did change in 2012.

 

[UcMiami]

I've just been thinking about the 'Ultimatum' string of posts that was here or another one of these long threads - my response was that Geno did present an ultimatum to Sue and DT (and not to the committee) that if they really wanted him to coach another cycle, then they had to bust their chops to be in shape and ready to make the Olympic team.

In thinking about this and specifically the 2006/08 cycle, I suspect he may have present a requirement to USA basketball before accepting the second cycle - if I take the job, then you must give me a winning experienced team in 2014 and 2016 and not saddle me with a developmental team in 2014 like you did to Anne Donovan in 2006. You can give me two rookies but the other ten players have to be vets. That 2006 team had I believe 6 first time NT members.

 

[hoophuskee]

It's not simple for USA BB and that's a very good thing. Fans can view things simply and often do.

I agree. And yet sometimes a committee for example or a coach can fall in love with a one-set formula which not in all cases should apply. The committee is not infallible. When it isn't there is nothing wrong if fans bring in their more simple opinion explaining why they feel the powers that be may have over-thought a critical issue.

 

[UConnCat]

I care for several reasons. When I watched UCONN annihilate Miss State it was the beauty of watching greatness on display. Because in men's college basketball the star players leave early - you can never see it. In that Olympcis the game you cite vs France, I still remember Parker coming off the bench and they had Whelan and a much better ANgel in the lienup. Flying own the court on a fatsbreak - it was a thing of beauty. I love fastbreak basketball. I saw 6'4/6'5 Parker whom I usually root against handling the ball in the backcourt full speed with other super players. I wanted to see more of that. It's not that no oen else can do it- but no one at her size can do it and ook so graceful and also finsish in the manner she can as she's leading the break. The socre was irrelevant. Irrelvant whether it was Aussie or France. WHat I saw and was a bit heopful for more of- was watching this on display again. Just like with the UCONN women, the socre was irrelevant. It was the beauty of watching all-tiem great paleyr's play AT THEIR BEST. Watchign Parker play at her best, playing fastbreak basketball, is worth admission. I watch more wcbb than mcbb.

As a fan - I'd like to know the technical reason why she's not on. The reason that there are too manyother good 3/4's is BS to me. Tell me why. I want to know because in part I AM A FAN and I'd like to know how/why some dccsions (not all) are made. It's no different than listening to a postgame interview in which you want to listen and understand the coach's insighs and sometimes form what transpired. What transpired to allow her to be cut from a bit more technical perspective other - we just had too many others. BS. In this case Parker is one of the world's best. Is it that what makes her great they feel doesn't translate well to the women's game or was it more that she only wants to play on the Olympics? If they don't tell me - that's their decision. But as a fan I can still care because I'm a fan of the game and like to hear or read of some basketball play insights. And if I think what they are saying is BS-- well as a fan I am waving the BS flag. If they won't then they'll just have to get over a little criticism. They're big boys and girls.

I don't want the same thing happening to a UCONN player in the future I love in which the committee dumps a player I like a ton without a good explanation. I'll start to feel like some of the others feel that for example are huge fans of Parker and become bitter - I don't want to feel that way. I feel that Parker can be valuable vs that finesse team having the game of their lives. IMO her skillset warranted the selection. And while overall I might not "care as much" as "The Parker fan" I believe her style should have been used as tremendous asset just like what I remember four years ago vs France. I wanted to see that fastbreak style and this time - Parker would be told of her role to start - so maybe that hurt her some in 2012 when she struggled a bit. That's wasn't Geno's fault certainly. Geno's obligation is to the team so big deal if someone is hurt a little regarding starting. But Parker's role did change in 2012.

Fair point in wanting to know why. The reason given was why USA BB believes they could put together a great team without her; it doesn't address the real reason they didn't put her on the team. There are most definitely reasons. We'll see if they come out.