Parker off Olympic team?

[Gate81]

Agree on the guard situation, and if this turns out to be a mistake to keep 3 players 34 and above at guard, there will be a huge price to pay. Then again we can all look forward to 2020, right?
In the meantime, I can't WAIT to see the LA Sparks play MN and Phoenix. Bet Parker and Ogwumike will have REAL drives to excel.

 

[EricSD]

True, it probably didn't come down to Stewie vs Candace, but Stewie's inclusion is more pronounced when arguably one of the best players in the world (and perhaps the very best on a given day) is excluded. Yes, Bird, Taurasi, Parker, etc. have all made senior teams at similar points in their career to Stewart, but never at the cost of someone at Parker's level.

Let's put this another way. Assuming USA basketball assumes Griner and Fowles are the centers (although Charles is capable of sliding over). And EDD/Charles/Stewart are the 4's (although both EDD and Stewart have the flexibility to play the 3). Was Charles chosen instead of Parker? And if Charles had been left off instead of Parker, certainly it would have been very noticeable, but while most people think Charles is a great player, she is not put in the same category as Moore/Parker/EDD/Taurasi.

I think you are 100% wrong on Tina Charles. She's likely a starter on this Olympic team and is one of the very best in the world at what she does. She has averaged a double double for her career in the WNBA - 17+ PPG and 10+ RPG. And she was the 2012 MVP in the WNBA - something very few players get to be.

She won gold representing Team USA in the Czech Republic in 2010 and again in 2014 in Turkey. She was also on the 2012 Olympic team. She was a starter in 2010 and 3rd on the team in scoring behind Dee and Angel. She was 2nd on the team in rebounds just behind Dupree.

In 2014 she was also a starter - averaging 3rd best 10+ PPG (behind Griner and Moore), and 1st in rebounds at over 8 per game.

I couldn't find the stats for the 2012 Olympics but my recollection is she was a starter on that team too. Tina Charles may not get the "publicity" that some other high profile players do, but make no mistake, she's one of the best in the world at what she does...

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Looks like I picked an interesting night (last night) to see a movie with my wife....

I've previously posted that I could see why Diggins was not selected in this year's process and the reason is very similar to what you just posted...Sky is still rehabbing and given her lack of experience at this level, it just didn't seem to be right time/right place.

I wish more people would be as pragmatic regarding the exclusion of Diggins as you are. Fate ensured that this would not be her Olympiad. Next one should see three new guards, at least.

As for McBride, you have a point. Based on skillset I think that she would have to bounce McCoughtry; I don't think that she could challenge Whalen because of Lindsay's superior ball handling skills. I'm not sure that I can make a case for her to bounce Angel, although I depend almost entirely on Olympic experience to support that opinion.

Would you care to weigh in on that?

 

[UcMiami]

One thing that is a given with every USA basketball coach is they have their own systems and their own preferences that they bring to the table, and to deny that is silly. I don't follow the men's team closely enough to comment on players that have been included and excluded from the team over coach K's tenure (and with the men, there are a lot more professionals who aren't interested in playing for their country because I guess it doesn't pay enough) but I am sure there are great individual players who coach K has been uninterested in adding to the roster and specific requirements for skills that he has demanded of the players that do get placed on the roster by the committee. Same goes for the women and Geno. The last Olympics I am pretty sure he had a lot of input on the twelfth player added and he proved to be prescient in wanting Jones.

To say that a committee selecting a team to be coached by Geno doesn't give preference to his style and requirements for players included in the team would be silly - if you aren't willing to adjust the criteria based on that system and coach, then find a coach whose system conforms to the players you want on the team. If he says I need three low post defenders to cope with Australia then the committee better have a good reason to only give him two or to saddle him with four, etc.

If the committee asked him - it has come down to Charles or Parker, I suspect he would say 'give me Charles' because I want the extra protection at center. If they asked him Parker or Catchings, he may have said I prefer Parker but I am OK with either, he was leaving the committee to make a choice that had no good option. If it came down to McCoughtry or Parker, he might say I prefer the disruptiveness on the wing and better three point shooting. Or he might not have been consulted at all on Parker specifically.

Presuming that they don't talk Geno into another 4 year stint (and I think like with Coach K they will likely ask) the next team is going to look very different than the current team because players will be retiring and because the next coach is going to have their own systems and preferences. If it is Cheryl Reeve, Augustus may still be on the team, if it is Dawn Staley then maybe Mitchell replaces her. And the choices while they may have some element of familiarity to them are going to be primarily based on putting the best functioning team on the floor - no one who coaches the USA NT team is pushing for something that might possibly weaken the team they are coaching - the pressure on the coaches is intense and the last thing they want to come home with is a silver or bronze or horrors no medal at all - it would mark the absolute low point of their professional career, and loyalty has nothing to do with their choices.

Geno as head of Uconn WCBB says he doesn't recruit players he doesn't want to coach, regardless of their talent - he doesn't really feel much professional pressure to win at all costs.
Geno as USA NT coach doesn't care who he coaches as long as he gets the best team he can on the court for every game - he only has to put up with the NT players for a couple of weeks, not 4 years and he feels the weight of the national expectations to win every game.

 

[bbsamjj]

I completely agree with you that Charles is a fantastic player, one of best in world. If she had been left off the team, everyone would be very surprised. But it wouldn't have been the same type of shock as with Parker's exclusion. Part of it's publicity, but part of it is also that Parker is generally considered in a (slightly) different class than Charles--with Maya, Taurasi, and (maybe) EDD.

I do agree with UCMiami though that Charles inclusion is important because she does provide the versatility to guard the 5, whereas Parker's frame makes that a more difficult assignment for her.

I think you are 100% wrong on Tina Charles. She's likely a starter on this Olympic team and is one of the very best in the world at what she does. She has averaged a double double for her career in the WNBA - 17+ PPG and 10+ RPG. And she was the 2012 MVP in the WNBA - something very few players get to be.

She won gold representing Team USA in the Czech Republic in 2010 and again in 2014 in Turkey. She was also on the 2012 Olympic team. She was a starter in 2010 and 3rd on the team in scoring behind Dee and Angel. She was 2nd on the team in rebounds just behind Dupree.

In 2014 she was also a starter - averaging 3rd best 10+ PPG (behind Griner and Moore), and 1st in rebounds at over 8 per game.

I couldn't find the stats for the 2012 Olympics but my recollection is she was a starter on that team too. Tina Charles may not get the "publicity" that some other high profile players do, but make no mistake, she's one of the best in the world at what she does...

 

[EricSD]

I completely agree with you that Charles is a fantastic player, one of best in world. If she had been left off the team, everyone would be very surprised. But it wouldn't have been the same type of shock as with Parker's exclusion. Part of it's publicity, but part of it is also that Parker is generally considered in a (slightly) different class than Charles--with Maya, Taurasi, and (maybe) EDD.

I do agree with UCMiami though that Charles inclusion is important because she does provide the versatility to guard the 5, whereas Parker's frame makes that a more difficult assignment for her.

Can't really argue with you with regards to perception. I tend to agree you are correct - that Charles is not viewed in the same echelon as the other greats you mentioned. It's been a sort of pet peeve of mine that Tina is frequently overlooked.

I do get that the players who are considered the best in the world never seem to include Tina. She doesn't do the "wow" things that some of the others do, but she's a world class player. Like I said I do get your point. I thought you were saying that Parker should have been on the team and Charles cut. That was where my 100% disagreement came from...

 

[Bayareahusky]

I love Parker and her game.... why she was not selected who knows..... maybe there is some issue I do not know about.....

but not about to question and name call because of it.... I am not there.....

I do what i do and they do what they do

 

[UcMiami]

Can't really argue with you with regards to perception. I tend to agree you are correct - that Charles is not viewed in the same echelon as the other greats you mentioned. It's been a sort of pet peeve of mine that Tina is frequently overlooked.

I do get that the players who are considered the best in the world never seem to include Tina. She doesn't do the "wow" things that some of the others do, but she's a world class player. Like I said I do get your point. I thought you were saying that Parker should have been on the team and Charles cut. That was where my 100% disagreement came from...

I think what you are saying about Charles is equally valid for Fowles by the way. That might also have to do with her injuries, but I also think in both cases it has to do with the balance they represent as players - half of their strength is defensive and not in the 'I block everything' kind of showiness of Griner or Stewart, but in the you want those three feet on the court and I am not going to allow you to have them kind of way - I didn't block your shot, but I made you take it from a different spot than you are used to and you missed.

 

[Orangutan]

I think what you are saying about Charles is equally valid for Fowles by the way. That might also have to do with her injuries, but I also think in both cases it has to do with the balance they represent as players - half of their strength is defensive and not in the 'I block everything' kind of showiness of Griner or Stewart, but in the you want those three feet on the court and I am not going to allow you to have them kind of way - I didn't block your shot, but I made you take it from a different spot than you are used to and you missed.

Fowles does block a lot of shots, though. Not as many as Griner, but no one does. Fowles has twice led the WNBA in blocked shots per game and has never finished lower than 6th in that category.

Honestly, I've been puzzled at people suggesting Fowles should have been left off in favor of Parker. She and Griner are the two best centers in the world. And when Syl is totally healthy and invested I think she might actually be better than Griner.

 

[baggerbob]

I think what you are saying about Charles is equally valid for Fowles by the way. That might also have to do with her injuries, but I also think in both cases it has to do with the balance they represent as players - half of their strength is defensive and not in the 'I block everything' kind of showiness of Griner or Stewart, but in the you want those three feet on the court and I am not going to allow you to have them kind of way - I didn't block your shot, but I made you take it from a different spot than you are used to and you missed.

Stewie has also learned how to beat you to the spot, and take a charge, rather then block everything.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Come on guys, we all know Parker didn't make this team because Geno is a cry baby jerk that is still mad about losing to a Tennessee team with Parker on it and if he wanted her on the team she would be on it.

 

[stwainfan]

From Bird Auguste:
This my first time expressing how I feel about someone else so here it goes. I have respect for women's basketball. I did my time and I appreciated all the people I came in contact with. One player that always stood out to me the most was Candace Parker. I got to play two years with her. Won two national championships with her and the rest of my teammates at the collegiate level. I've watched her worked before and after our intense practices. She made us better as a team. She was unselfish. Sometimes we wanted her to be a little more mean on the court but that wasn't her character. She's a tremendous athlete and it shows. With that being said I'm disappointed she didn't make the USA team. For whatever reason she didn't make the cut. It hurts me and I'm not even in her shoes. She's one of the best players in the league hands down. Yes it's my opinion!!! And guess what I'm sticking with it. If I had my top five picks in the league she will always be number one. This is nothing but an eye opener for her. It's going to be an exciting year in the WNBA this year. Watch Candace work!!! #TakeNotesYoungHoopers #ShesABOUTtoTakeFlight

 

[EricSD]

I assume the above quote is from Alberta Auguste, a former JUCO player who transferred to, and played 2 years for, Tenenssee? It would not shock me to see any former Tennessee player make a similar quote or have similar comments. I'm sure Shannon Bobbitt, Nikki Anosike, Angie Bjorkland, or Sydney Smallbone would all say something very similar.

 

[bbsamjj]

Can't really argue with you with regards to perception. I tend to agree you are correct - that Charles is not viewed in the same echelon as the other greats you mentioned. It's been a sort of pet peeve of mine that Tina is frequently overlooked.

I do get that the players who are considered the best in the world never seem to include Tina. She doesn't do the "wow" things that some of the others do, but she's a world class player. Like I said I do get your point. I thought you were saying that Parker should have been on the team and Charles cut. That was where my 100% disagreement came from...

Charles may be overlooked only because Maya was on her two championship teams.

 

[stwainfan]

I assume the above quote is from Alberta Auguste, a former JUCO player who transferred to, and played 2 years for, Tenenssee? It would not shock me to see any former Tennessee player make a similar quote or have similar comments. I'm sure Shannon Bobbitt, Nikki Anosike, Angie Bjorkland, or Sydney Smallbone would all say something very similar.

Yes that's correct.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Tina Charles hasn't won a WNBA title? What's the big deal about CP3 not winning one?

 

[DaddyChoc]

Yes that's correct.

You previous comment served no purpose, everyone know how LV fans and players feel about the decision

 

[iamcbs]

"Geno has extremely limited input..." ??? Am betting Geno has at least consistent and perhaps considerable input.

That's a bet you'd lose, the coaches have very limited input in selecting the team, which is why Coach Popp declined to coach the Men's National Team and Coach K got a second shot

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I just didn't want to be accused of starting a UConn v. Tennessee war! That's all. (and I was being a little melodramatic to add force to my disclaimer)

Heaven forfend, Orang, that that could possibly be your purpose-the "starting" part I mean.

You knew what you were about. Hence, the guilty look.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Come on guys, we all know Parker didn't make this team because Geno is a cry baby jerk that is still mad about losing to a Tennessee team with Parker on it and if he wanted her on the team she would be on it.

Ok, so this was a poorly-veiled attempt to raise the hackles of the people on this board?

Lame, son. Just...lame.

And if it was supposed to be humorous...Lamer, son. Just...lamer.

 

[wbbfan]

Candace Parker plays a position that’s “the strength of” the U.S. Olympic women’s basketball team, national team director Carol Callan said Wednesday when asked why Parker didn’t make the roster.


“We don’t get into specifics speaking about each player publicly,” said Callan, part of a five-person team selection committee. “Needless to say there are a lot of deliberations. We have a committee for a reason. … What it does speak to is that we have incredible depth on this team. … We’re looking at depth and talent at each position, and there are just a lot of numbers games that are played at that three-four position that is the strength of our team. We appreciate Candace. It’s not an easy call to make.”

USA Basketball official explains leaving Candace Parker off Olympic team

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Tina Charles hasn't won a WNBA title? What's the big deal about CP3 not winning one?

Well...CP3 isn't eligible. Wrong...equipment.

BUT in the spirit of your response...or Barkley (sp?), Wilkens, Ewing, Reggie Miller, Artis Gilmore, Nash, Malone & Stockton, Pete Maravich...

 

[easttexastrash]

Tina Charles is a must for this team so there should be zero talk of Parker being more deserving than Charles. Charles can play the 5 or the 4 at an incredibly high level and she can bang on the block, which we are going to need. She has a tremendous little hook shot and a sweet 15 footer. She was one of the elite players in the WCs and should have been named to the all-tournament team. She is the type of post player that Griner can learn a thing or two from and I am thrilled that she will be there to mentor BG.

Now, if she could only have mentored her when it came to marriage plans...

The more I think about this decision, I think it comes back to shooting ability. As good as Parker is, she is not as good a shooter as either Stewart or EDD, which are most likely the two players she was competing against fort the final sport on the roster. I am thinking that the committee decided to go with the best shooters, which may have been where Parker was considered weaker.

 

[Tonyc]

HEY it is very obvious to me there is a problem and it my be personal. No one including CP is saying anything. So maybe its better we don't know however at some point I believe we will find out why. Lets not pass blame on anybody. The committee isn't stupid and either are the coaches but there is something going on that we don't know about and they do so lets just wait and not speculate for the good sake of everybody.

 

[easttexastrash]

HEY it is very obvious to me there is a problem and it my be personal. No one including CP is saying anything. So maybe its better we don't know however at some point I believe we will find out why. Lets not pass blame on anybody. The committee isn't stupid and either are the coaches but there is something going on that we don't know about and they do so lets just wait and not speculate for the good sake of everybody.

You started your post with speculation that something is wrong and that it may be "personal" but end your post with a call for us not to speculate?

 

[Bayareahusky]

HEY it is very obvious to me there is a problem and it my be personal. No one including CP is saying anything. So maybe its better we don't know however at some point I believe we will find out why. Lets not pass blame on anybody. The committee isn't stupid and either are the coaches but there is something going on that we don't know about and they do so lets just wait and not speculate for the good sake of everybody.

100% in agreement with u tonyc.... we are not there we do not know what is up.... what amazes me in these deals is the tidal wave of social media..... which makes the omission an absolute mistake..... Barkley was left off 84 team..... uproar.... Edgerrin James drafted before Ricky Williams? It must have been a conspiracy..... So and so wins Super Bowl..... he has to be the Greatest QB Ever..... absolute talk..... and I guess that is what these boards are for...... so the debate continues

 

[Swishball]

I'll start off by saying personally I would have picked Parker over a couple of the vets but there is a credible argument for leaving her off the team and it's purely tactical.

Floor Spacing- Think about it. Candace operates out of the post and generally doesn't have much outside range (About a 30% 3pt shooter). This issue is compounded by the fact that she can't really guard opposing 5s. Which leads to the necessity that she plays next to one of Griner, Fowles, or Charles. This limits the space for those bigs to operate and get their touches in as well as the overall team spacing in general. This has been a recurring issue with the Sparks and led to talk of them trading Ogwumike because of it

Instead by having stretch bigs (Delle Donne, Stewart and to a somewhat lesser extent Catchings) the team has ideal floor spacing with one big in the post and the rest on the floor having outside shooting without any sacrifices to the team's defense. In addition those three stretch bigs are exceptional shot blockers and help defenders. I also imagine Team USA plenty teams spreading them out with multiple shooters which makes having 2 post players not as comfortable guarding on the perimeter less than ideal.

I felt the need to post this somewhere as I saw nobody looking beyond the immediate hot take and the "She's a star" argument which is fair and expected. Again I still would have picked her over a few vets like Augustus or Catchings but there is some rationale behind leaving her off the team.

 

[UConnCat]

Agree on the guard situation, and if this turns out to be a mistake to keep 3 players 34 and above at guard, there will be a huge price to pay. Then again we can all look forward to 2020, right?
In the meantime, I can't WAIT to see the LA Sparks play MN and Phoenix. Bet Parker and Ogwumike will have REAL drives to excel.

Oh, so this is what Parker and Ogwumike need to excel? This will give them REAL drive? Well the rest of the WNBA better watch out because Candace and Nneka are coming to town. Good grief.

 

[UConnCat]

I assume the above quote is from Alberta Auguste, a former JUCO player who transferred to, and played 2 years for, Tenenssee? It would not shock me to see any former Tennessee player make a similar quote or have similar comments. I'm sure Shannon Bobbitt, Nikki Anosike, Angie Bjorkland, or Sydney Smallbone would all say something very similar.

Thanks for clearing that up Eric. I wondered who Bird Auguste was but so glad to hear Bird (not our beloved Sue) is just another name for Alberta. You know, I've been on the fence for 2 days about this whole Parker-not-making-the-Olympic-team crisis and I couldn't quite decide how I felt about it. Truth is, I was waiting to hear from Alberta "Bird" Auguste because I knew she'd provide just the insight I was looking for. I've made up my mind: I am not the least bit bothered that Parker is not on the USA Olympic team.

Like you, I was fortunate to be able to travel to Istanbul and watch Team USA win the World Championship in 2014. The team played great and I absolutely loved watching them play. The fact that Candace Parker was not on the team never once crossed my mind. Her absence from the 2016 Olympic team matters little to me now and will probably matter even less in August.

 

[UConnCat]

And I wouldn't say Candace plays 'back to the basket' primarily, nor does Charles when she plays as a four. But what Charles provides that Candace doesn't is the ability to comfortably shift into the 5 position against a Cambage type of center especially on defense - she has the strength and bulk to defend against 22o lb post players that Candace just doesn't possess - no knock on Candace but she is giving up almost 50 pounds of muscle - it is not dissimilar to the different defensive assignments you saw with Stewart and Tuck the past two years - with all Stewart's length, Tuck was still a better low post defender against strong back to the basket centers because she had better bulk and strength to move them from the spots they wanted to be.

Interesting that you bring up Charles and Parker. Tina Charles played for Team USA in the 2010 World Championships, the 2012 Olympics and the 2014 World Championships. Not only did Tina play for Team USA, she excelled for Team USA in each of those competitions. I recall watching an international broadcast of the 2010 World Championships and hearing the announcers say that Tina Charles was the best young post player in the tournament. In the 2012 Olympics, it was Tina Charles who stood up to the Australian post players and turned around a game the US was losing. Candace Parker wanted no part of the physical Aussies in that game and was eventually replaced with Ashja Jones. Two years ago in Istanbul Tina Charles was again outstanding and, in my opinion, should have been on the all-tournament team.

I know no one is suggesting that Tina Charles shouldn't be on the Olympic team or that Charles made the team at the expense of Parker. I mention Charles as a way of asking why so many people care that Candace Parker isn't on the Olympic team. Tina Charles has contributed more towards Team USA winning gold medals than Candace Parker has yet I doubt anyone other than UConn fans would care if Tina Charles were left off the team. Why are so many so overwrought by Parker's absence? It's not like Team USA hasn't done just fine without her.

So far, Parker has played for Team USA in a total of 2 major international tournaments: the 2008 and 2012 Olympics. She did not play for the gold-medal winning Team USA at the 2010 World Championships, nor did she play for the gold-medal winning Team USA at the 2014 World Championships. Honestly, I don't remember much about the 2008 Olympics. Parker was fresh out of college and I'm sure played very well. I do, however, remember the 2012 Olympics. I remember Team USA's gold medal was really won in the semi-final game against Australia. I remember that the Australian post players had their way with Team USA in that game until Tina Charles and Ashja Jones responded in the second half (Fowles was injured). I also remember that Candace Parker was virtually a no-show in that game, wanting no part of the physical Aussies. Parker played great in the gold medal game against France, a finesse team, but everyone knew the toughest game was against Australia.

So that's it. That's the sum total of Candace Parker's experience playing for Team USA. Can someone tell me why everyone cares so much that she's not on the Olympic team? I don't get it.