Paige as NPOY | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Paige as NPOY

bbsamjj said:
Rebecca Lobo touched on this in the SC/KY broadcast, but it's a very odd year for POY race in that the race hasn't really narrowed much (this was before Louisville loss). I'd probably give it to Bueckers at this point, but I think her claim to the crown is based mostly on her performance versus SC (which was an award winning performance, to be sure). Given the lack of true marquee games this year, very hard to get a full read on anyone.
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That‘s very true. It’s weird to reduce everything to two seconds, but if Boston makes her put back, Paige is probably looking at being one of the runners up. She’d have had a very good 22-point night on 11-23 shooting with two clutch shots in a loss ... instead of 31 on 14-26 with five clutch shots in a win. Before that game, I figured first team AA was probably her ceiling with a good finish to the season, but after it, all of a sudden she was the best player on the No. 1 team with incredible efficiency and clutch stats with a signature performance in a 1 v 2 game. The resume got much better overnight.

You also can wonder if Paige would have been ready for top level comp if that UConn-Louisville game was played in December. Say she has her 3-14 game then, and a more experienced Evans plays well in a Louisville win - that game gives Evans the “big win” piece to her puzzle that she doesn't have now, and Paige probably has a hard time catching her. It’s such a weird year with way more limited resumes than usual, so it could be that one play that another player doesn’t make could be what swings things.
 
It's going to be like this:

POY awards that have a heavy vote from ESPN media people will be given to someone not named Paige Bueckers.

POY awards that don't have a heavy ESPN vote to them will be given to Paige.

It's clear that ESPN WBB TV personalities are downplaying Paige because our conference contract is with Fox. ESPN as a whole is celebrating her, but I don't think the actual announcers give her the credit she deserves. And for all the people who keep shouting "upperclassmen," stop. The men have been giving NPOY to freshman for a while now. If a player deserves it, she deserves it.
 
ucbart said:
It's going to be like this:

POY awards that have a heavy vote from ESPN media people will be given to someone not named Paige Bueckers.

POY awards that don't have a heavy ESPN vote to them will be given to Paige.

It's clear that ESPN WBB TV personalities are downplaying Paige because our conference contract is with Fox. ESPN as a whole is celebrating her, but I don't think the actual announcers give her the credit she deserves. And for all the people who keep shouting "upperclassmen," stop. The men have been giving NPOY to freshman for a while now. If a player deserves it, she deserves it.
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But there's a one and done rule on the men's side. It's easier to not give it to a freshman on the women's side knowing that they are going to have several more chances to win it.
 
ucbart said:
It's going to be like this:

POY awards that have a heavy vote from ESPN media people will be given to someone not named Paige Bueckers.

POY awards that don't have a heavy ESPN vote to them will be given to Paige.

It's clear that ESPN WBB TV personalities are downplaying Paige because our conference contract is with Fox. ESPN as a whole is celebrating her, but I don't think the actual announcers give her the credit she deserves. And for all the people who keep shouting "upperclassmen," stop. The men have been giving NPOY to freshman for a while now. If a player deserves it, she deserves it.
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1) The Major POY (Naismith, Honda, AP & Wade) do not have ESPN media people that vote.
2) Paige is not eligible for the Wade because she is a freshman. That is actually written in to the criteria for the Wade.
3) The ESPN personalities and ESPN are not down playing Paige-quite the opposite. If you google Paige and ESPN you will find several videos of ESPN shows unrelated to WCBB on which Paige is featured. ESPN is in the Media business Paige is Media equivalent of must see box office gold.
4) You are forgetting a couple things A) Just about all UCONN games are broadcast on ESPN radio. B) Two major UCONN games that were cancelled this season ( Mississippi State & Louisville) would have been broadcast on ESPN.
5) The people screaming "upperclassmen" are screaming a verifiable fact that these awards tend to favor upperclassmen. Two notable examples are Senior Tina Charles displacing Maya Moore as POY and Senior Megan Gustafson winning the AP player of the year over Junior Sabrina Ionescu.
 
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CocoHusky said:
1) The Major POY (Naismith, Honda, AP & Wade) do not have ESPN media people that vote.
2) Paige is not eligible for the Wade because she is a freshman. That is actually written in to the criteria for the Wade.
3) The ESPN personalities and ESPN are not down playing Paige-quite the opposite. If you google Paige and ESPN you will find several videos of ESPN shows unrelated to WCBB on which Paige is featured. ESPN is in the Media business Paige is Media equivalent of must see box office gold.
4) You are forgetting a couple things A) Just about all UCONN games are broadcast on ESPN radio. B) Two major UCONN games that were cancelled this season ( Mississippi State & Louisville) would have been broadcast on ESPN.
5) The people screaming "upperclassmen" are screaming a verifiable fact that these awards tend to favor upperclassmen. Two notable examples are Senior Tina Charles displacing Maya Moore as POY and Senior Megan Gustafson winning the AP player of the year over Junior Sabrina Ionescu.
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On point 3-

I am talking about in game broadcasts. When announcers are calling a game, people like Mowins, Antonelli, Weisbrod, and the like, are seemingly leaving Paige out of discussions. I mean, during the NC State/UNC matchup yesterday, ESPN put a graphic on the screen promoting Caitlin Clarke as Freshman of the Year. I've heard Mowins, Antonelli, and Lobo talk about this.
 
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ScottCT said:
But there's a one and done rule on the men's side. It's easier to not give it to a freshman on the women's side knowing that they are going to have several more chances to win it.
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This just frustrates me though. The best player should get it, regardless of age or future opportunity. Just like when announcers talk about the coach's fashion choice instead of the game, it feels like a slight against the product of women's basketball. In the men's game, the focus is on the basketball. Wish the women's game was the same. If Bueckers or even Clark were the best player, they would deserve the awards and attention.
 
ucbart said:
On point 3-

I am talking about in game broadcasts. When announcers are calling a game, people like Mowins, Antonelli, Weisbrod, and the like, are seemingly leaving Paige out of discussions. I mean, during the NC State/UNC matchup yesterday, ESPN put a graphic on the screen promoting Caitlin Clarke as Freshman of the Year. I've heard Mowins, Antonelli, and Lobo talk about this.
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Well..... during the South Carolina Kentucky game yesterday I saw ESPN put up a graphic promotion Paige as NPOY candidate and did not mention Caitlin.
 
Same Coco, though they were putting up the POY candidates from teams ranked in the top 10 (thus, no HIllmon, Howard, Collier, or Clark).
 
Paige deserves NPOY based on any metric: pure stats, clutch performance against great opponents, and importance to the team. Take Paige out of UConn's lineup & UConn would be lucky to be a Top 15 team.
 
ESPN crew put up 9 they consider in the race. Lobo said they wanted to talk about only 3 or 4 but the race is so wide open they went up to 9.

Boston
Bueckers
Clark
Collier
Evans
Hillmon
Howard
McDonald
NaLyssa Smith

Grumbled at some of their comments that nobody has done anything to separate themselves, as if Paige outscoring SC 13-5 by herself in the last 7 minutes didn’t happen. But oh well.
 
  • Bueckers' goals are all connected to winning games
  • Bueckers is the same player whether or not she wins a NPOY.
  • The only individual awards I'd like to see her win are "Most Improved Player", 3 years in a row. :)
 
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Kind of funny how the landscape keeps shifting. Honestly, Clark has played her way into first team AA status. Her resume has gotten a lot better in the last two weeks (improved efficiency) and the last two hours (signature performance in a big win). If it was National Player of the Second Half of February, frankly she’d win by a landslide. But just being first team A-A is impressive, I think Paige and Clark will be the third and fourth to ever do it if it happens.

On the flip side, Clark did a favor when she helped knock Hillmon back a peg. UM has lost two games recently and doesn’t really have as impressive body of work as a team as they did two weeks ago. Hard to give NPOY to a player who lost by 30 to an unranked team. Similarly Evans had a clunker over the weekend ... and Boston isn’t even getting the ball any more and rarely scores 10 points. Howard had a poor effort against SC, Collier had a poor effort against Baylor, etc.

Paige has had pedestrian numbers the last two games which maybe hurts a little bit, in the sense of her overall scoring averages and percentages have taken a minor hit (scoring down from 21.3 to 20.1 - three point percentage down from 55 to 52). They were lopsided wins where we were up huge early, so it doesn’t really matter if you look closely, but if she does this twice more and finishes at 19.5 ppg, I could see losing a couple votes just by not having that first number start with a 2. Realistically, her resume was finished against Seton Hall - we had just beaten SC and she helped put SH away when they were hanging around - although Marquette has the potential to keep it tight Monday.

But as always, this is all just more in fun ... and the bigger issue is getting the team ready to roll for the postseason. Nika getting her shooting confidence back was way more important today than Paige scoring 20-25, and if we can do the same for Evina in the next couple games and keep CW rolling, we’ll be positioned better for March. If that means Paige scores 10-12 twice and loses NPOY, so be it.
 
Paige is playing like she couldn't care less about Player of the Year. Her goal is to make sure her teammates are involved and the team is winning. She could easily be hoisting up another 10 shots a game to make the numbers look gaudier. You know many of the other people on the list are doing exactly that to chase the award. It's almost like she is looking at the PoY award with contempt at this point.
 
AgStatesman said:
Paige is playing like she couldn't care less about Player of the Year. Her goal is to make sure her teammates are involved and the team is winning. She could easily be hoisting up another 10 shots a game to make the numbers look gaudier. You know many of the other people on the list are doing exactly that to chase the award. It's almost like she is looking at the PoY award with contempt at this point.
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Agree.
The momentum of her to shot more was after the first loss. Paige got good numbers for those games.
And for recent 4 games, she took 10, 10, 11, 12 shots. Maybe she is not too caring about the awards but her fan just feel worried she will get nothing this year. You know Clark liked a tweet comment saying that she is the FOY several weeks ago. I know that she cares and is pursuing the prize in her way.
 
Gurleyman said:
Kind of funny how the landscape keeps shifting. Honestly, Clark has played her way into first team AA status. Her resume has gotten a lot better in the last two weeks (improved efficiency) and the last two hours (signature performance in a big win). If it was National Player of the Second Half of February, frankly she’d win by a landslide. But just being first team A-A is impressive, I think Paige and Clark will be the third and fourth to ever do it if it happens.

On the flip side, Clark did a favor when she helped knock Hillmon back a peg. UM has lost two games recently and doesn’t really have as impressive body of work as a team as they did two weeks ago. Hard to give NPOY to a player who lost by 30 to an unranked team. Similarly Evans had a clunker over the weekend ... and Boston isn’t even getting the ball any more and rarely scores 10 points. Howard had a poor effort against SC, Collier had a poor effort against Baylor, etc.

Paige has had pedestrian numbers the last two games which maybe hurts a little bit, in the sense of her overall scoring averages and percentages have taken a minor hit (scoring down from 21.3 to 20.1 - three point percentage down from 55 to 52). They were lopsided wins where we were up huge early, so it doesn’t really matter if you look closely, but if she does this twice more and finishes at 19.5 ppg, I could see losing a couple votes just by not having that first number start with a 2. Realistically, her resume was finished against Seton Hall - we had just beaten SC and she helped put SH away when they were hanging around - although Marquette has the potential to keep it tight Monday.

But as always, this is all just more in fun ... and the bigger issue is getting the team ready to roll for the postseason. Nika getting her shooting confidence back was way more important today than Paige scoring 20-25, and if we can do the same for Evina in the next couple games and keep CW rolling, we’ll be positioned better for March. If that means Paige scores 10-12 twice and loses NPOY, so be it.
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Paige is doesn't play for numbers. She could get her shot off of screens all game long. What she does is try and get her teammates going if they are in a slump to build their confidence back up. She will look for her shot if her teammates are missing or are deferring to her. They know who she is and how good she is. Like in the game yesterday against Creighton, Liv Nelson Ododa had zero points in the first half and didn't need to score since Muhl was on fire but in the second half Paige ran some pick and rolls with Liv to get her into double figures and she is always looking to throw her Touchdown passes to Christyn Williams on fastbreaks. She is the consummate PG. She is as good as Sabrina was in her senior year and far superior to her as a freshman. She has my vote all the way.
 
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Paige really does not want so much attention so early. Of course, when called upon in a big close game, she will do what is needed including take over the game if necessary but in these BE games, it is far more important to get everyone involved and feeling good about their games.

In particular, you have to take into account that most of the UConn players have very clear career goals to go to the next level (WNBA or at least international ball) so I think Paige takes seriously the idea that she needs to help her teammates, not overshadow them. From a personal standpoint, her career path into the WNBA and ultimately the National team is pretty obvious (now) so scoring 30pts a night and getting all the press clippings now as a Freshman having to carry her team (this was the focus of every news story) risks team chemistry and fosters underlying jealously.

I would not be surprised if Paige and Geno really talk about such stuff with Paige stubbornly insisting she must always facilitate first for team chemistry. Especially since she is with the team every minute of the day on and off the court so she can gauge her teammates feelings much better than the coaches.

Clearly, this is not an issue with Clark at Iowa. I am sure her teammates are more than happy to ride her game as far as they can and if it gets her the FPOY and who knows, NPOY??, I don't think Paige cares one iota.
 
As much as I want Paige to win every award there is to win, I'd argue that this stretch where she's slashed her points and doubled her assists is best for the team in the long run. It's getting more players involved and confident, which is exactly what we need going into the tournament.

We obviously shouldn't rely on Paige scoring 30+ a night (even though we know she can against nearly every team), but her teammates need to know that they can score and make an impact, too. What does Iowa do when Clark doesn't score 25-30?

At the end of the day, we know she believes that winning (and winning a NC) and being a good teammate are more important than any personal accolade she'll ever receive. Doesn't matter to her if she's NFOY or NPOY if she's sitting on the couch on April 4.
 
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Does the NPOY depend more on the media's hyperbole? Is ESPN still pushing their NPOY choice, Rhyne Howard, at season start? Or are they now going to puch Collier since she is seen as the #1 WNBA draft pick? So. Caro. Boston? Can they ignore marketing (against FOX Sports' BE TV) and embrace objectivity? Objectivity as in what we, BoneYarders, possess about this topic.
www.theuconnblog.com

The case for Paige Bueckers to win national player of the year

Bueckers has a convincing argument to become the first-ever freshman to take home the award.
www.theuconnblog.com www.theuconnblog.com
 
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SVCBeercats said:
Does the NPOY depend more on the media's hyperbole? Is ESPN still pushing their NPOY choice, Rhyne Howard, at season start? Or are they now going to puch Collier since she is seen as the #1 WNBA draft pick? So. Caro. Boston? Can they ignore marketing (against FOX Sports' BE TV) and embrace objectivity? Objectivity as in what we, BoneYarders, possess about this topic.
www.theuconnblog.com

The case for Paige Bueckers to win national player of the year

Bueckers has a convincing argument to become the first-ever freshman to take home the award.
www.theuconnblog.com www.theuconnblog.com
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I'm still not sure why some think there is an ESPN ant-UCONN or Anti-Paige "campaign" but... Charli Collier is not in conversation for POY.

www.espn.com

Who's the top 2020-21 player of the year candidate in every women's college basketball conference?

From Louisville's Dana Evans in the ACC to Gonzaga's Jenn Wirth in the WCC, we break down which players have stood out in each conference.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
CocoHusky said:
I'm still not sure why some think there is an ESPN ant-UCONN or Anti-Paige "campaign" but... Charli Collier is not in conversation for POY.

www.espn.com

Who's the top 2020-21 player of the year candidate in every women's college basketball conference?

From Louisville's Dana Evans in the ACC to Gonzaga's Jenn Wirth in the WCC, we break down which players have stood out in each conference.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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Interesting Conference POY picks. I felt like Boston has been sliding lately but they still have her No. 1 in SEC. Howard has struggled at times, but a couple recent big games (27 yesterday in a tight win over UGA). In the PAC, Neither McDonald nor Jones has been all that impressive this year. McDonald shoots poorly and Jones has become pretty ordinary. Feel like UCLA’s kid should sneak in there. Owusu has been overlooked a bit for Maryland so interesting to see her No. 2 behind Hillmon - she’s held that team together amid roster turnover so she’s worthy. I’d lean Smith over Mack in B12 for team success, but they are pretty close. Gondrezick for WV also gets overlooked a bit.
 
CocoHusky said:
I'm still not sure why some think there is an ESPN ant-UCONN or Anti-Paige "campaign" but... Charli Collier is not in conversation for POY.

www.espn.com

Who's the top 2020-21 player of the year candidate in every women's college basketball conference?

From Louisville's Dana Evans in the ACC to Gonzaga's Jenn Wirth in the WCC, we break down which players have stood out in each conference.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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I don't see an anti-UConn or anti-Paige bias on ESPN or their family of conference networks. There might be a couple individual announcers who are haters, but overall I think the opposite is true, if anything.

Example: Yesterday during the Kentucky-Georgia game on SECN (ESPN) Carolyn Peck was hyping up Rhyne Howard pretty good for SEC POY and national POY. But they showed a Paige-Rhyne side-by-side comparison graphic showing Paige ahead on PPG and APG with Rhyne ahead only on RPG. There was no real compelling need for them to bring Paige into the conversation. This is not something they would do if the network was anti-Paige or anti-UConn.
 
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j66kicker said:
I don't see an anti-UConn or anti-Paige bias on ESPN or their family of conference networks. There might be a couple individual announcers who are haters, but overall I think the opposite is true, if anything.

Example: Yesterday during the Kentucky-Georgia game on SECN (ESPN) Caroline Peck was hyping up Rhyne Howard pretty good for SEC POY and national POY. But they showed a Paige-Rhyne side-by-side comparison graphic showing Paige ahead on PPG and APG with Rhyne ahead only on RPG. There was no real compelling need for them to bring Paige into the conversation. This is not something they would do if the network was anti-Paige or anti-UConn.
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That's kind of the way I've always seen it, not just this year but always. First of all, if ESPN was not covering WCBB I hate to think where WCBB would be. Second you can't effectively cover WCBB and ignore or even down play UCONN. Third you mention the ESPN affiliated networks like the SEC and I don't understand why some UCONN fans can't seem to comprehend that those networks have to be promoted with content and UCONN is not a part of that content.
 
j66kicker said:
Example: Yesterday during the Kentucky-Georgia game on SECN (ESPN) Carolyn Peck was hyping up Rhyne Howard pretty good for SEC POY and national POY. But they showed a Paige-Rhyne side-by-side comparison graphic showing Paige ahead on PPG and APG with Rhyne ahead only on RPG. There was no real compelling need for them to bring Paige into the conversation. This is not something they would do if the network was anti-Paige or anti-UConn.
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Interesting that Peck is on the Howard bandwagon. I do my best not to pay attention to what Peck has to say so I don't know if she has consistently supported Howard for the award or if she's a recent convert. Howard has the talent to be NPOY but I've seen games in which she seemed indifferent to what was happening on the court. Both Tenn games come to mind. Heading in to the season I thought Boston would win it but there have been too many games with her not getting the ball enough.

As upperclassmen go I guess I favor Dana Evans.
 
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I agree Paige does not care for the award. I think to get it she would have to be getting 20 - 30 points per game this lsat stretch and the rest of the season. She hasn't so she will not get it. The voters do not watch her every game. she needs the points per game and % averages. WE know she is the NPOY. She however putting her team in the best possible position for a NC. SHE WANTS THAT! and so do I.
 
SVCBeercats said:
Does the NPOY depend more on the media's hyperbole? Is ESPN still pushing their NPOY choice, Rhyne Howard, at season start? Or are they now going to puch Collier since she is seen as the #1 WNBA draft pick? So. Caro. Boston? Can they ignore marketing (against FOX Sports' BE TV) and embrace objectivity? Objectivity as in what we, BoneYarders, possess about this topic.
www.theuconnblog.com

The case for Paige Bueckers to win national player of the year

Bueckers has a convincing argument to become the first-ever freshman to take home the award.
www.theuconnblog.com www.theuconnblog.com
Expand ...


Megan Gauer has an update since last night. I don't know how much the press looks at Win Shares, but if they do....


 
Waquoit said:
Paige isn't going to win but she will be 1st team AA. That's fine.
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So who do you believe will win? I keep coming back to who is a better player and I can't think of any. As noted below, Natasha Mack is having a spectacular season and, except for the fact that OSU is 17-7, should really be getting much more recognition. She's been better overall than Hillmon, imo. A big question is how much team record should matter. If we go on the eye test and statistics, I think I'd have it Bueckers, Mack, Clark, Howard, Evans, and Hillmon though I don't know where to put Collier.
 
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