Paige as NPOY

[Lorcan]

Honestly, if I had to pick a NPOY right now, I'd go with Naz Hillmon at Michigan. She's having an unbelievable year averaging 25.9 points per game, shooting 65%, and adding 11.5 rebounds per game. Honestly, Paige is good, but Naz Hillmon is just on another level at the moment -- IMO.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Honestly, if I had to pick a NPOY right now, I'd go with Naz Hillmon at Michigan. She's having an unbelievable year averaging 25.9 points per game, shooting 65%, and adding 11.5 rebounds per game. Honestly, Paige is good, but Naz Hillmon is just on another level at the moment -- IMO.

I said this the other day, but if they never gave Naphessa Collier a NPOY award then Hillmon certainly doesn't deserve one. Collier had three better seasons than Hillmon is having.

 

[darkstar1]

I said this the other day, but if they never gave Naphessa Collier a NPOY award then Hillmon certainly doesn't deserve one. Collier had three better seasons than Hillmon is having.

I watched Hillmon play today. Like Pheesa, she has great hands and can score at a high percentage in close. But that’s it. Doesn’t play much defense and doesn’t seem to make her team better. Can’t compare to Pheesa. Not even close.

 

[Hayven]

More often than not, within the past decade the NPOY as been on one of the top ranking teams, who also went relatively deep into the tourney. When players got it but, their teams didn’t do well in the tourney were:
1: the early Baylor exit due to Shoni Schimmel’s heroics
2: Kelsey Plum was averaging over 30 points a game, eventually becoming the scoring leader in Division 1
3: Napheesa being overlooked for Megan Gustafson
4: Sabrina Ionescu. Regardless of whatever participation banner is hanging in someone’s gym, we all know Oregon would have won it all last year

Of Hillsman, Paige, and Evans, only Pagie and Evans have a real opportunity in playing in April. I don’t believe Boston is in the running, as her numbers are not similar to the other three. That’s in large part due to her guards trying to get their points too.

 

[MSGRET]

More often than not, within the past decade the NPOY as been on one of the top ranking teams, who also went relatively deep into the tourney. When players got it but, their teams didn’t do well in the tourney were:
1: the early Baylor exit due to Shoni Schimmel’s heroics
2: Kelsey Plum was averaging over 30 points a game, eventually becoming the scoring leader in Division 1
3: Napheesa being overlooked for Megan Gustafson
4: Sabrina Ionescu. Regardless of whatever participation banner is hanging in someone’s gym, we all know Oregon would have won it all last year

Of Hillsman, Paige, and Evans, only Pagie and Evans have a real opportunity in playing in April. I don’t believe Boston is in the running, as her numbers are not similar to the other three. That’s in large part due to her guards trying to get their points too.

Actually all NPOY votes are prior to Conference tourney play.

 

[Gurleyman]

Honestly, if I had to pick a NPOY right now, I'd go with Naz Hillmon at Michigan. She's having an unbelievable year averaging 25.9 points per game, shooting 65%, and adding 11.5 rebounds per game. Honestly, Paige is good, but Naz Hillmon is just on another level at the moment -- IMO.

There’s a good case to be made for Hillmon. Today’s win helped. One thing they were lacking was a win over a great team.

It’s so hard to compare her to Paige because they are totally different types of players. When you factor in the extra point for threes, their effective FG percentages are virtually identical. Hillmon gets you rebounds, Paige gets you assists. Hillmon doesn’t get you much else (21 assists, 9 blocks, 9 steals all year - and 7 assists came in one weird outlier game against Wisconsin when she shot 2-6 for 6 points, so she must have been double teamed on every touch). Paige probably has the “more ways to beat you“ argument in her favor, but in fairness a stat line doesn’t always show what impact players have (such as getting double teamed on every touch and maybe getting hockey assists as the ball is kicked out and then swung to an open shooter). But in the last five games combined, Hillmon has totaled 1 assist, 1 steal and 1 block, with today her third 0-0-0 in the last four. She’s just camping out on the block at both ends, trying to get a bucket or a rebound, and that’s it.

But if Michigan wins out their last few regular season games and Hillmon gets it, I certainly won’t raise a stink. She’s so good at doing what she does that you can’t say she didn’t earn it. I’ll be a little disappointed, sure, but one thing the last few games have shown is Paige certainly doesn’t care - she’s averaging only 10 shots a game against these Big East bottom feeder teams while trying to get her teammates shots. She’s clearly not too worried about her award candidacy, so I’m not going to worry about it much either. More a fun discussion than anything, since it would be WBB history if she won as a freshman, and we don’t have many ways to make history any more.

 

[bbsamjj]

Rebecca Lobo touched on this in the SC/KY broadcast, but it's a very odd year for POY race in that the race hasn't really narrowed much (this was before Louisville loss). I'd probably give it to Bueckers at this point, but I think her claim to the crown is based mostly on her performance versus SC (which was an award winning performance, to be sure). Given the lack of true marquee games this year, very hard to get a full read on anyone.

 

[Lorcan]

I said this the other day, but if they never gave Naphessa Collier a NPOY award then Hillmon certainly doesn't deserve one. Collier had three better seasons than Hillmon is having.

It's tricky though -- it's not necessarily about whether Collier had amazing years -- it's more about who the competition is this year. Sure, Collier may have had great stats, but Gustafson was out of the world her senior year with unbelievable stat lines for Iowa.

I think if we're looking at the impact that players are having, and their impact this season -- it's hard to ignore what someone like Hillmon has done in breaking Michigan school records such as scoring 50 points in a game. I'd think that she'd be more recognized if Michigan hadn't gone on such a long COVID pause recently -- and she'll hopefully continue to roll in the last few games before the B10 Tournament.

As bbsamjj, said, I think the lack of marquee games hurts. I respect what Paige did in games like SC, TN, and others, but I'm not ready to coronate her yet -- and I think if Naz Hillmon has a big game against Iowa, she's definitely at the forefront of my list -- it's a shame that Michigan doesn't get to play Maryland in the regular season this year.

I think I'd argue that by camping out on the block, Hillmon opens up more for Michigan by design. She's been effective in helping them run their offense - but I haven't watched enough games from them to know how integral she is on the defensive end of the floor. Just because she's not doling out assists as a post, doesn't mean that she's not incredibly efficient and successful at carrying her team to a win.

 

[eebmg]

Honestly, if I had to pick a NPOY right now, I'd go with Naz Hillmon at Michigan. She's having an unbelievable year averaging 25.9 points per game, shooting 65%, and adding 11.5 rebounds per game. Honestly, Paige is good, but Naz Hillmon is just on another level at the moment -- IMO.

You lost me at "Paige is good" and then again at "another level".

 

[hoophuskee]

You lost me at "Paige is good" and then again at "another level".

I agree with you.

What she did vs SC wasn't at another level? Her efficiency vs Arkansas in which her TS% wasn't at another level? Her entire season --her efficiency for a guard isn't at another level?

And her "one game" which seems to be downplayed by some is much bigger than any "other game."

IMO it's what someone said before - you literally have to make things up to not give it to her.

 

[Gurleyman]

Rebecca Lobo touched on this in the SC/KY broadcast, but it's a very odd year for POY race in that the race hasn't really narrowed much (this was before Louisville loss). I'd probably give it to Bueckers at this point, but I think her claim to the crown is based mostly on her performance versus SC (which was an award winning performance, to be sure). Given the lack of true marquee games this year, very hard to get a full read on anyone.

That‘s very true. It’s weird to reduce everything to two seconds, but if Boston makes her put back, Paige is probably looking at being one of the runners up. She’d have had a very good 22-point night on 11-23 shooting with two clutch shots in a loss ... instead of 31 on 14-26 with five clutch shots in a win. Before that game, I figured first team AA was probably her ceiling with a good finish to the season, but after it, all of a sudden she was the best player on the No. 1 team with incredible efficiency and clutch stats with a signature performance in a 1 v 2 game. The resume got much better overnight.

You also can wonder if Paige would have been ready for top level comp if that UConn-Louisville game was played in December. Say she has her 3-14 game then, and a more experienced Evans plays well in a Louisville win - that game gives Evans the “big win” piece to her puzzle that she doesn't have now, and Paige probably has a hard time catching her. It’s such a weird year with way more limited resumes than usual, so it could be that one play that another player doesn’t make could be what swings things.

 

[cbraarj]

The Senior Card

Unfortunately in WCBB they take that into consideration to much.

 

[ucbart]

It's going to be like this:

POY awards that have a heavy vote from ESPN media people will be given to someone not named Paige Bueckers.

POY awards that don't have a heavy ESPN vote to them will be given to Paige.

It's clear that ESPN WBB TV personalities are downplaying Paige because our conference contract is with Fox. ESPN as a whole is celebrating her, but I don't think the actual announcers give her the credit she deserves. And for all the people who keep shouting "upperclassmen," stop. The men have been giving NPOY to freshman for a while now. If a player deserves it, she deserves it.

 

[ScottCT]

It's going to be like this:

POY awards that have a heavy vote from ESPN media people will be given to someone not named Paige Bueckers.

POY awards that don't have a heavy ESPN vote to them will be given to Paige.

It's clear that ESPN WBB TV personalities are downplaying Paige because our conference contract is with Fox. ESPN as a whole is celebrating her, but I don't think the actual announcers give her the credit she deserves. And for all the people who keep shouting "upperclassmen," stop. The men have been giving NPOY to freshman for a while now. If a player deserves it, she deserves it.

But there's a one and done rule on the men's side. It's easier to not give it to a freshman on the women's side knowing that they are going to have several more chances to win it.

 

[CocoHusky]

It's going to be like this:

POY awards that have a heavy vote from ESPN media people will be given to someone not named Paige Bueckers.

POY awards that don't have a heavy ESPN vote to them will be given to Paige.

It's clear that ESPN WBB TV personalities are downplaying Paige because our conference contract is with Fox. ESPN as a whole is celebrating her, but I don't think the actual announcers give her the credit she deserves. And for all the people who keep shouting "upperclassmen," stop. The men have been giving NPOY to freshman for a while now. If a player deserves it, she deserves it.

1) The Major POY (Naismith, Honda, AP & Wade) do not have ESPN media people that vote.
2) Paige is not eligible for the Wade because she is a freshman. That is actually written in to the criteria for the Wade.
3) The ESPN personalities and ESPN are not down playing Paige-quite the opposite. If you google Paige and ESPN you will find several videos of ESPN shows unrelated to WCBB on which Paige is featured. ESPN is in the Media business Paige is Media equivalent of must see box office gold.
4) You are forgetting a couple things A) Just about all UCONN games are broadcast on ESPN radio. B) Two major UCONN games that were cancelled this season ( Mississippi State & Louisville) would have been broadcast on ESPN.
5) The people screaming "upperclassmen" are screaming a verifiable fact that these awards tend to favor upperclassmen. Two notable examples are Senior Tina Charles displacing Maya Moore as POY and Senior Megan Gustafson winning the AP player of the year over Junior Sabrina Ionescu.

 

[ucbart]

1) The Major POY (Naismith, Honda, AP & Wade) do not have ESPN media people that vote.
2) Paige is not eligible for the Wade because she is a freshman. That is actually written in to the criteria for the Wade.
3) The ESPN personalities and ESPN are not down playing Paige-quite the opposite. If you google Paige and ESPN you will find several videos of ESPN shows unrelated to WCBB on which Paige is featured. ESPN is in the Media business Paige is Media equivalent of must see box office gold.
4) You are forgetting a couple things A) Just about all UCONN games are broadcast on ESPN radio. B) Two major UCONN games that were cancelled this season ( Mississippi State & Louisville) would have been broadcast on ESPN.
5) The people screaming "upperclassmen" are screaming a verifiable fact that these awards tend to favor upperclassmen. Two notable examples are Senior Tina Charles displacing Maya Moore as POY and Senior Megan Gustafson winning the AP player of the year over Junior Sabrina Ionescu.

On point 3-

I am talking about in game broadcasts. When announcers are calling a game, people like Mowins, Antonelli, Weisbrod, and the like, are seemingly leaving Paige out of discussions. I mean, during the NC State/UNC matchup yesterday, ESPN put a graphic on the screen promoting Caitlin Clarke as Freshman of the Year. I've heard Mowins, Antonelli, and Lobo talk about this.

 

[Rb335]

But there's a one and done rule on the men's side. It's easier to not give it to a freshman on the women's side knowing that they are going to have several more chances to win it.

This just frustrates me though. The best player should get it, regardless of age or future opportunity. Just like when announcers talk about the coach's fashion choice instead of the game, it feels like a slight against the product of women's basketball. In the men's game, the focus is on the basketball. Wish the women's game was the same. If Bueckers or even Clark were the best player, they would deserve the awards and attention.

 

[CocoHusky]

On point 3-

I am talking about in game broadcasts. When announcers are calling a game, people like Mowins, Antonelli, Weisbrod, and the like, are seemingly leaving Paige out of discussions. I mean, during the NC State/UNC matchup yesterday, ESPN put a graphic on the screen promoting Caitlin Clarke as Freshman of the Year. I've heard Mowins, Antonelli, and Lobo talk about this.

Well..... during the South Carolina Kentucky game yesterday I saw ESPN put up a graphic promotion Paige as NPOY candidate and did not mention Caitlin.

 

[bbsamjj]

Same Coco, though they were putting up the POY candidates from teams ranked in the top 10 (thus, no HIllmon, Howard, Collier, or Clark).

 

[BostonBay]

Paige deserves NPOY based on any metric: pure stats, clutch performance against great opponents, and importance to the team. Take Paige out of UConn's lineup & UConn would be lucky to be a Top 15 team.

 

[Gurleyman]

ESPN crew put up 9 they consider in the race. Lobo said they wanted to talk about only 3 or 4 but the race is so wide open they went up to 9.

Boston
Bueckers
Clark
Collier
Evans
Hillmon
Howard
McDonald
NaLyssa Smith

Grumbled at some of their comments that nobody has done anything to separate themselves, as if Paige outscoring SC 13-5 by herself in the last 7 minutes didn’t happen. But oh well.

 

[Alydar]

• Bueckers' goals are all connected to winning games
• Bueckers is the same player whether or not she wins a NPOY.
• The only individual awards I'd like to see her win are "Most Improved Player", 3 years in a row.

 

[Gurleyman]

Kind of funny how the landscape keeps shifting. Honestly, Clark has played her way into first team AA status. Her resume has gotten a lot better in the last two weeks (improved efficiency) and the last two hours (signature performance in a big win). If it was National Player of the Second Half of February, frankly she’d win by a landslide. But just being first team A-A is impressive, I think Paige and Clark will be the third and fourth to ever do it if it happens.

On the flip side, Clark did a favor when she helped knock Hillmon back a peg. UM has lost two games recently and doesn’t really have as impressive body of work as a team as they did two weeks ago. Hard to give NPOY to a player who lost by 30 to an unranked team. Similarly Evans had a clunker over the weekend ... and Boston isn’t even getting the ball any more and rarely scores 10 points. Howard had a poor effort against SC, Collier had a poor effort against Baylor, etc.

Paige has had pedestrian numbers the last two games which maybe hurts a little bit, in the sense of her overall scoring averages and percentages have taken a minor hit (scoring down from 21.3 to 20.1 - three point percentage down from 55 to 52). They were lopsided wins where we were up huge early, so it doesn’t really matter if you look closely, but if she does this twice more and finishes at 19.5 ppg, I could see losing a couple votes just by not having that first number start with a 2. Realistically, her resume was finished against Seton Hall - we had just beaten SC and she helped put SH away when they were hanging around - although Marquette has the potential to keep it tight Monday.

But as always, this is all just more in fun ... and the bigger issue is getting the team ready to roll for the postseason. Nika getting her shooting confidence back was way more important today than Paige scoring 20-25, and if we can do the same for Evina in the next couple games and keep CW rolling, we’ll be positioned better for March. If that means Paige scores 10-12 twice and loses NPOY, so be it.

 

[Childhood]

Agree.
The momentum of her to shot more was after the first loss. Paige got good numbers for those games.
And for recent 4 games, she took 10, 10, 11, 12 shots. Maybe she is not too caring about the awards but her fan just feel worried she will get nothing this year. You know Clark liked a tweet comment saying that she is the FOY several weeks ago. I know that she cares and is pursuing the prize in her way.