PAC 12 WBB News

[azfan]

In fairness, I think Rueck would say that in the past decade since he started at OSU, including a disastrous first-year rebuild-from-scratch, he's delivered at least 30% more post-season wins (14 vs. 8 NCAA tournament wins), at least 30% more PAC-12 titles (3 regular season and 1 conference vs. 1 regular season), and at least 30% more conference wins (119 vs. 92).

All that said, as they say in investment land, past performance is not a prediction of future returns. But since when has any coach's renewed contract been based on anything other than their recent past performance, rather than predicted future? If it weren't, then, David Shaw, our football coach, should be in jail for contract fraud!

Great point! No doubt a tremendous rebuilding job. His efforts are similar to what CTT accomplished when she arrived at Arizona State University back in the late 90s. Clearly timing is all.

One of the differences between the Oregon schools and Arizona State is the willingness to step up particularly with the women's programs.

ASU has a disastrous history of rewarding men's coaches particularly football I'm thinking of Todd Graham and now the agony of Herm Edwards both of whom received substantial salaries and Graham's buyout was absolutely amazing.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Missy is reffing the Stanford-OSU game, and it is a total and utter coincidence that four of our five starters, as well as Belibi, have already been whistled for a foul, with minutes remaining in Q1. I'm shocked, shocked by this development... And it's good that she is calling it tight, too, because Stanford and OSU are two teams known for being notoriously physical and injury-threatening to their opponents...

 

[Farney]

I’m just not a fan of the way Tara coaches. To me she overcoaches with her subbing. Player gets a foul early in game, right to bench. She had 3 starters on the bench in first 90 seconds.

I know their rotation is deep but I want more minutes with Brink and Jones.

 

[SECbbfan24]

What in the world. Time to give the fans a refund.

 

[UConnCat]

Halftime score from ESPN

Arizona 16
Washington 7

This can't be right.

 

[UConnCat]

View attachment 73472
What in the world

Great minds.

 

[SECbbfan24]

Great minds.

LOL I didn't believe it at first but then Arizona's twitter page confirmed it

 

[DefenseBB]

Missy is reffing the Stanford-OSU game, and it is a total and utter coincidence that four of our five starters, as well as Belibi, have already been whistled for a foul, with minutes remaining in Q1. I'm shocked, shocked by this development... And it's good that she is calling it tight, too, because Stanford and OSU are two teams known for being notoriously physical and injury-threatening to their opponents...

Yes and almost as bad are the two clueless announcers!

 

[Basket]

I’m already tired of Adia Barnes. I really liked her last year but she doesn’t seem to wear well

 

[Basket]

How bout them Cougars! How does Wash St beat these teams? Az St 1-7 on the road. Will the Cougs make the tourney? They are the least respected of the mid tier teams in the conference

 

[undersized]

How bout them Cougars! How does Wash St beat these teams? Az St 1-7 on the road. Will the Cougs make the tourney? They are the least respected of the mid tier teams in the conference

Washington State is a fascinating team for sure. As has been discussed, the only PAC-12 teams who seem like locks for the NCAA tournament at this point are Oregon, Arizona, and Stanford. But there is a log jam in the middle of the conference including the following teams, ordered by the NET rankings as of 2/17:
#22 Utah
#34 Colorado
#39 Arizona State
#49 Oregon State
#54 UCLA
#67 Washington State

Although Washington State is at the bottom of the bunch in terms of NET rankings, they fair better when you look the head to head match-ups within this bunch. They beat Colorado, Oregon State, and Arizona State. They split with UCLA. They lost to Utah. Because of this, they are currently 4th in the conference. Pencil in losses to Arizona and Stanford and hopefully a win against Cal, and they still finish a respectable 10-7 in conference. Normally that kind of conference record would get you into the tournament.

So, why is Washington State's NET so low? Their "bad" loss to #104 Stony Brook early in the season plays a role. But perhaps more importantly, they have struggled to hang around in games with really good teams:
-18 point loss to BYU
-28 point loss to NC State
-38 point loss to Stanford
-53 point loss to Oregon
These types of blowout losses really damage a team's offensive and defensive efficiency numbers, which are factored into NET rankings.

All this is to say, I'm really curious to see who from the PAC will get an at large bid, because the different criteria contradict each other to a certain extent. At this point, I do think Washington State will make it. The resumes of the PAC bubble teams are all pretty thin, so it makes sense to me that the committee would prioritize looking at the head to head matchups within this group, which is favorable to Washington State. Who agrees/disagrees?

 

[azfan]

Washington State is a fascinating team for sure. As has been discussed, the only PAC-12 teams who seem like locks for the NCAA tournament at this point are Oregon, Arizona, and Stanford. But there is a log jam in the middle of the conference including the following teams, ordered by the NET rankings as of 2/17:
#22 Utah
#34 Colorado
#39 Arizona State
#49 Oregon State
#54 UCLA
#67 Washington State

Although Washington State is at the bottom of the bunch in terms of NET rankings, they fair better when you look the head to head match-ups within this bunch. They beat Colorado, Oregon State, and Arizona State. They split with UCLA. They lost to Utah. Because of this, they are currently 4th in the conference. Pencil in losses to Arizona and Stanford and hopefully a win against Cal, and they still finish a respectable 10-7 in conference. Normally that kind of conference record would get you into the tournament.

So, why is Washington State's NET so low? Their "bad" loss to #104 Stony Brook early in the season plays a role. But perhaps more importantly, they have struggled to hang around in games with really good teams:
-18 point loss to BYU
-28 point loss to NC State
-38 point loss to Stanford
-53 point loss to Oregon
These types of blowout losses really damage a team's offensive and defensive efficiency numbers, which are factored into NET rankings.

All this is to say, I'm really curious to see who from the PAC will get an at large bid, because the different criteria contradict each other to a certain extent. At this point, I do think Washington State will make it. The resumes of the PAC bubble teams are all pretty thin, so it makes sense to me that the committee would prioritize looking at the head to head matchups within this group, which is favorable to Washington State. Who agrees/disagrees?

With this big win the Cougars control their fate. I think if they split with Arizona and Stanford they get the invite to the dance over the Sun Devils.

Unfortunately for CCT's squad they'll need a deep run in the tournament (not likely) to have a chance for an invite. Their lack of rebounding in this game doomed their chances. CTT as often said when the Devils are plus 10 overall and plus five offensively they're in good shape.

Second road game in a row the Devil's had a fourth quarter opportunity. In past years the Devil's often had the answer usually with defensive stops.

Kudos to the Cougs.

 

[LoTrader]

I’m just not a fan of the way Tara coaches. To me she overcoaches with her subbing. Player gets a foul early in game, right to bench. She had 3 starters on the bench in first 90 seconds.

I know their rotation is deep but I want more minutes with Brink and Jones.

I'm not a fan either, for entirely different reason: it works well! Tara is the absolute best at in game substitutions. At the OSU game last night, and with the deepest bench I have ever seen on any team, Stanford can bring in any type of player at any time to advantage Stanford. Best Stanford Team I have ever seen (in person) and that is 7 years running. It will take a special team to stop Stanford this year in the NCAA Tournament.

 

[Plebe]

In fairness, I think Rueck would say that in the past decade since he started at OSU, including a disastrous first-year rebuild-from-scratch, he's delivered at least 30% more post-season wins (14 vs. 8 NCAA tournament wins), at least 30% more PAC-12 titles (3 regular season and 1 conference vs. 1 regular season), and at least 30% more conference wins (119 vs. 92).

All that said, as they say in investment land, past performance is not a prediction of future returns. But since when has any coach's renewed contract been based on anything other than their recent past performance, rather than predicted future? If it weren't, then, David Shaw, our football coach, should be in jail for contract fraud!

I took @azfan 's comment not as questioning whether Rueck was worth the cited salary, but, as someone who lived in Phoenix for several years, recalling ASU's reputation for underpaying its women's coaches (not just in WBB, I may add).

Despite CTT's prolonged run of decent success (two Elite 8s and multiple Sweet 16s over about a 15-year period), there's at least the perception that ASU WBB has ebbed in recent years and been overtaken by other Pac-12 programs such as OSU, UO and (most notably) UA. Even if her AD were less stingy, her leverage in salary negotiations is IMO not what it would have been just 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[Plebe]

With this big win the Cougars control their fate. I think if they split with Arizona and Stanford they get the invite to the dance over the Sun Devils.

Unfortunately for CCT's squad they'll need a deep run in the tournament (not likely) to have a chance for an invite. Their lack of rebounding in this game doomed their chances.

I think you're overestimating the gravity of this one loss. It's still just a Quad 1 loss, which doesn't really hurt a resume beyond the missed opportunity for a quality win.

Arizona State has wins over Oregon and Arizona, and no one else in the morass of bubble teams in the Pac-12 has a pair of wins as good as those. As of yesterday morning, Creme had ASU as a #10 seed, and not even among the last 4 byes (i.e., ahead of at least 8 other teams in the field). A road loss to a bubble team is not going to drop them that much if at all.

Also, you seem to imply an either-or scenario, that only one of WSU or ASU would get an at-large bid. It's entirely possible that both get in.

 

[azfan]

I think you're overestimating the gravity of this one loss. It's still just a Quad 1 loss, which doesn't really hurt a resume beyond the missed opportunity for a quality win.

Arizona State has wins over Oregon and Arizona, and no one else in the morass of bubble teams in the Pac-12 has a pair of wins as good as those. As of yesterday morning, Creme had ASU as a #10 seed, and not even among the last 4 byes (i.e., ahead of at least 8 other teams in the field). A road loss to a bubble team is not going to drop them that much if at all.

Also, you seem to imply an either-or scenario, that only one of WSU or ASU would get an at-large bid. It's entirely possible that both get in.

I really hope you are correct. While the rest of the regular season stretch looks favorable for the Sun Devils I'm a little worried about the UCLA game. I know CTT will rally the troops and it's my hope we finish out in the w column. That said recently we've been out of the tournament after the first game.

I am reassured however by your post and wish I'd read it before I went to bed last night as my worries about the current Sun Devil squad had me a bit anxious.

Creme's bracketology yesterday morning before any of these games had ASU in and WSU looking in. Given some of the wild possibilities down the stretch I think I'd be surprised if both ASU and WSU danced. That said weirder things have happened.

Also regarding CTT's salary I think you're definitely on point. Her leverage 5 years ago was at its peak and giving her ties to the West Coast and Stanford if she had wanted to play hardball perhaps it would have translated into a higher salary.

She's wanted to raise her family here in Tempe and has been a really good and loyal soldier for ASU. During a time of tremendous turmoil in the athletic department she has been the one constant.

They posted fall GPA by team and her squad had a 3.7. she has a balanced view about why athletes come to Tempe.

 

[Figurehead]

Oregon reserve Shannon Dufficy will participate in senior day along with starter Nyra Sabally who graduates in March and will go to the draft. Sedona Prince will be back next year as she just announced today. I think Sabally has been very injury prone and does not want to risk another year in college.

Two things here. Sabally has been way too inconsistent this year along with Prince. Someone suggested to Prince on social media that she get a private basketball coach off season when she posted she was staying and it got quite a few likes. I don't think it was a put down at all and I thought it was a good idea to shore up some glaring deficiencies in her game if she is serious about improving.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I really hope you are correct. While the rest of the regular season stretch looks favorable for the Sun Devils I'm a little worried about the UCLA game. I know CTT will rally the troops and it's my hope we finish out in the w column. That said recently we've been out of the tournament after the first game.

I am reassured however by your post and wish I'd read it before I went to bed last night as my worries about the current Sun Devil squad had me a bit anxious.

Creme's bracketology yesterday morning before any of these games had ASU in and WSU looking in. Given some of the wild possibilities down the stretch I think I'd be surprised if both ASU and WSU danced. That said weirder things have happened.

Also regarding CTT's salary I think you're definitely on point. Her leverage 5 years ago was at its peak and giving her ties to the West Coast and Stanford if she had wanted to play hardball perhaps it would have translated into a higher salary.

She's wanted to raise her family here in Tempe and has been a really good and loyal soldier for ASU. During a time of tremendous turmoil in the athletic department she has been the one constant.

They posted fall GPA by team and her squad had a 3.7. she has a balanced view about why athletes come to Tempe.

I'm nervous about how many the PAC get in. I seriously don't think ASU has a lot of wiggle room, a good PAC tourney would help a lot. The thing is, its very easy to look at NET and I know it is very important, but as they constantly say, it isn't the only thing. And right now, ASU (and some other PAC teams in the conversation) just don't have good winning percentages. As a PAC homer, the more that make the tourney the merrier, but it is very shaky right now.

Regarding CTT salary - I had, for a long time, the impression that the PAC was not particularly well paying. That could have been a wrong impression, but the explosion of salaries has accompanied teams with (relatively) newer coaches making Final Four appearances, I think. Certainly Arizona was a cheap payer, and you could pick me up off the floor when I heard Adia was in the Top 10 (probably now more like top 15) of coaches salaries.

 

[azfan]

I'm nervous about how many the PAC get in. I seriously don't think ASU has a lot of wiggle room, a good PAC tourney would help a lot. The thing is, its very easy to look at NET and I know it is very important, but as they constantly say, it isn't the only thing. And right now, ASU (and some other PAC teams in the conversation) just don't have good winning percentages. As a PAC homer, the more that make the tourney the merrier, but it is very shaky right now.

Regarding CTT salary - I had, for a long time, the impression that the PAC was not particularly well paying. That could have been a wrong impression, but the explosion of salaries has accompanied teams with (relatively) newer coaches making Final Four appearances, I think. Certainly Arizona was a cheap payer, and you could pick me up off the floor when I heard Adia was in the Top 10 (probably now more like top 15) of coaches salaries.

Agree completely. WSU will probably lose to both Arizona and Stanford impacting their winning percentage. I will not be surprised if ASU loses the season ender to UCLA and is one and done in the tournament. In those cases I think you could find a strong argument that neither team dances.

 

[Figurehead]

I'm nervous about how many the PAC get in. I seriously don't think ASU has a lot of wiggle room, a good PAC tourney would help a lot. The thing is, its very easy to look at NET and I know it is very important, but as they constantly say, it isn't the only thing. And right now, ASU (and some other PAC teams in the conversation) just don't have good winning percentages. As a PAC homer, the more that make the tourney the merrier, but it is very shaky right now.

Regarding CTT salary - I had, for a long time, the impression that the PAC was not particularly well paying. That could have been a wrong impression, but the explosion of salaries has accompanied teams with (relatively) newer coaches making Final Four appearances, I think. Certainly Arizona was a cheap payer, and you could pick me up off the floor when I heard Adia was in the Top 10 (probably now more like top 15) of coaches salaries.

Some of those bubble PAC-12 teams played early cup cake schedules which impacts the NET. Some fans and schools were content with that and once conference starts it slowly goes downhill from there. Maybe some coaches do that to help the final record to keep their jobs intact? I don't know.

 

[Floridaduck]

For a team that was projected to be a "tough out" by tourney time, Oregon has been pretty so-so recently. Aside from the UCLA game the shooting has been particularly abysmal.The loss to Oregon State on home court saw 4-21 from 3 point line. More recently in the 5 point home "win" versus Cal the Ducks went 0-16 from 3. These are not good numbers heading into the last three games.
Hoping for a turnaround but the chance to host in the NCAAT seems a long shot without a win or two v. Stanford, @Utah, or @Colorado.

 

[azfan]

For a team that was projected to be a "tough out" by tourney time, Oregon has been pretty so-so recently. Aside from the UCLA game the shooting has been particularly abysmal.The loss to Oregon State on home court saw 4-21 from 3 point line. More recently in the 5 point home "win" versus Cal the Ducks went 0-16 from 3. These are not good numbers heading into the last three games.
Hoping for a turnaround but the chance to host in the NCAAT seems a long shot without a win or two v. Stanford, @Utah, or @Colorado.

I would be surprised (stunned) if the Ducks don't quack it up against Utah and Colorado. They should also pick up at least one win in Las Vegas.

 

[Figurehead]

For a team that was projected to be a "tough out" by tourney time, Oregon has been pretty so-so recently. Aside from the UCLA game the shooting has been particularly abysmal.The loss to Oregon State on home court saw 4-21 from 3 point line. More recently in the 5 point home "win" versus Cal the Ducks went 0-16 from 3. These are not good numbers heading into the last three games.
Hoping for a turnaround but the chance to host in the NCAAT seems a long shot without a win or two v. Stanford, @Utah, or @Colorado.

And the coach seems more interested in watching Gonzaga mens b-ball than fixing the problems. I know his kid plays there and all but he can't afford a private plane?


"Can’t rely on my earliest flight out of Spokane to get me home by 1 pm tip-off vs Stanford so I’m pulling the all-nighter drive. It’s only 7 hours"

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I want to watch this Stanford vs Oregon game but looking at that court makes me dizzy!

 

[JellyBean]

Oregon got Stanford shook! That zone Oregon is running has Stanford confused.

 

[JellyBean]

Then Arizona and Washington State was an interesting game. Washington State is scrappy!

 

[jchusky]

Arz loses but the bigger problem is Reese holding her arm and leaving the game uggh. Hope she's ok.

 

[Floridaduck]

I was switching between many games and did not see what happened with Cate Reese injury. Announcers talked season ending maybe. Anybody know?

 

[maccca3232]

Spoiler: Dislocated Shoulder?

 

[DaBball]

Oregon State's Andrea Aquino got in the book for senior day, the first time for the 6-9 senior and No. 21 recruit in the class of 2018. Props to Charmin Smith as well.