So far only 3 of us over there and you over here.
Pac-12 Tournament thread
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Plebe
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Some impressions from both games:
The first semifinal was certainly the higher-quality game -- in fact, it was by far the highest level of play I've seen in any of the conference tournaments thus far. Arizona may have actually played the best game I've seen from them, despite what was ultimately a decisive loss. It was a game of runs, and Arizona rode their own stretches of hot shooting to cut the lead to 1 late in 1Q and then to 6 early in 3Q. AZ is an outstanding defensive team -- statistically the best in the Pac-12 -- but they still gave up more than 30 points over their average because Oregon's ball movement was incredible and they shot so dang well. Both teams combined for 25 of 52 3-pointers -- incredible efficiency at that volume.
Also, what an amazing display by McDonald -- she was virtually unstoppable at times. Minyon Moore is considered a great perimeter defender, but she simply could not guard Aari. (Side note: I'm not sure if Moore had her minutes limited due to the defense or because she wasn't really a shooting threat.) Back to McDonald: 34 points on 14-25 FG and 4-9 FG3 is just an incredible stat line, not to mention her 5 assists. Arizona also got great contributions from McBryde and Thomas (their improved shooting is really remarkable) as well as the freshman Pueyo. Reese had her moments as well. One issue with Arizona is that they lack depth, and once Reese picked up her 4th foul that was pretty much all she wrote. But if they can stay out of foul trouble and play anything like they did today, they will be a very tough out for anyone in the tournament.
Ionescu was noticeably tired at a few points in the game, and I got the impression that Graves felt like he had to rest her, even though the team did struggle without her. She still finished with 31 points (11-16 FG and 6-9 FG3), 9 rebounds, 7 assists.
Boley was great, especially early on, and Hebard was her usual steady self, but it was a subpar performance from Sabally imho. Oregon will need more from both Sabally and Moore once they get to the Elite 8 and beyond. But if Oregon can shoot like they did today, good luck to anyone trying to beat them.
On to the second game: Yes, it was ugly, especially in the first half. But that's mainly because UCLA makes its living forcing teams into that type of game with their intense defense and rebounding. They're not gonna win a beauty contest; they just get after you and they make every little thing hard to execute. UCLA has struggled with shooting this season, and that was certainly the case today, and they weren't able to take advantage of their offensive rebounding or Stanford's turnovers.
We've grown accustomed to fantastic games by Kiana Williams and Lexie Hull, and they certainly delivered tonight. Lexie is imho the unsung hero of this Stanford team and deserves far more recognition. She had 28 points on 11 of 19 FG (3-7 FG3), 9 rebounds, 5 steals ... but 7 turnovers (mostly in the first half).
How many times has Stanford turned the tables in the Pac-12 tournament on a team that had decisively beaten them in the regular season? I remember last year Oregon gave Stanford an epic beat-down in Maples, but then Stanford got revenge in the Pac-12 final (though it should be noted Oregon was by then without Chavez and with Ruthy limited).
This is the matchup I certainly wanted to see in the final, and I can't wait. What an achievement it would be for either team -- for Oregon, to avenge last year's Pac-12 finals loss and beat Stanford 3 times in a season, something no one has ever done, or for Stanford to repeat last year's feat and take down the favored Ducks in a championship game.
Another piece of history at stake: Oregon is trying to become the first Pac-12 team other than Stanford to win the conference tournament twice. Stanford has won it 13 out of 18 times, but hasn't won 2 in a row since 2012-2013.
One last thought: The crowd energy from the Ducks fans was amazing. I give them a 9 (not a 10 because hey, there were still some empty seats). Even in the second semifinal, the audience looked to be about two-thirds yellow and green. Stanford had a respectable contingent as well, and certainly made themselves heard.
The first semifinal was certainly the higher-quality game -- in fact, it was by far the highest level of play I've seen in any of the conference tournaments thus far. Arizona may have actually played the best game I've seen from them, despite what was ultimately a decisive loss. It was a game of runs, and Arizona rode their own stretches of hot shooting to cut the lead to 1 late in 1Q and then to 6 early in 3Q. AZ is an outstanding defensive team -- statistically the best in the Pac-12 -- but they still gave up more than 30 points over their average because Oregon's ball movement was incredible and they shot so dang well. Both teams combined for 25 of 52 3-pointers -- incredible efficiency at that volume.
Also, what an amazing display by McDonald -- she was virtually unstoppable at times. Minyon Moore is considered a great perimeter defender, but she simply could not guard Aari. (Side note: I'm not sure if Moore had her minutes limited due to the defense or because she wasn't really a shooting threat.) Back to McDonald: 34 points on 14-25 FG and 4-9 FG3 is just an incredible stat line, not to mention her 5 assists. Arizona also got great contributions from McBryde and Thomas (their improved shooting is really remarkable) as well as the freshman Pueyo. Reese had her moments as well. One issue with Arizona is that they lack depth, and once Reese picked up her 4th foul that was pretty much all she wrote. But if they can stay out of foul trouble and play anything like they did today, they will be a very tough out for anyone in the tournament.
Ionescu was noticeably tired at a few points in the game, and I got the impression that Graves felt like he had to rest her, even though the team did struggle without her. She still finished with 31 points (11-16 FG and 6-9 FG3), 9 rebounds, 7 assists.
Boley was great, especially early on, and Hebard was her usual steady self, but it was a subpar performance from Sabally imho. Oregon will need more from both Sabally and Moore once they get to the Elite 8 and beyond. But if Oregon can shoot like they did today, good luck to anyone trying to beat them.
On to the second game: Yes, it was ugly, especially in the first half. But that's mainly because UCLA makes its living forcing teams into that type of game with their intense defense and rebounding. They're not gonna win a beauty contest; they just get after you and they make every little thing hard to execute. UCLA has struggled with shooting this season, and that was certainly the case today, and they weren't able to take advantage of their offensive rebounding or Stanford's turnovers.
We've grown accustomed to fantastic games by Kiana Williams and Lexie Hull, and they certainly delivered tonight. Lexie is imho the unsung hero of this Stanford team and deserves far more recognition. She had 28 points on 11 of 19 FG (3-7 FG3), 9 rebounds, 5 steals ... but 7 turnovers (mostly in the first half).
How many times has Stanford turned the tables in the Pac-12 tournament on a team that had decisively beaten them in the regular season? I remember last year Oregon gave Stanford an epic beat-down in Maples, but then Stanford got revenge in the Pac-12 final (though it should be noted Oregon was by then without Chavez and with Ruthy limited).
This is the matchup I certainly wanted to see in the final, and I can't wait. What an achievement it would be for either team -- for Oregon, to avenge last year's Pac-12 finals loss and beat Stanford 3 times in a season, something no one has ever done, or for Stanford to repeat last year's feat and take down the favored Ducks in a championship game.
Another piece of history at stake: Oregon is trying to become the first Pac-12 team other than Stanford to win the conference tournament twice. Stanford has won it 13 out of 18 times, but hasn't won 2 in a row since 2012-2013.
One last thought: The crowd energy from the Ducks fans was amazing. I give them a 9 (not a 10 because hey, there were still some empty seats). Even in the second semifinal, the audience looked to be about two-thirds yellow and green. Stanford had a respectable contingent as well, and certainly made themselves heard.
Like you this is the final I've been anticipating. It's an intriguing game. Your comments about wildcats and McDonald were dead on.
I noticed after their game McDonald announced that she was engaged! I think it came as a bit of a surprise to her. But what an epic night for her to have that occur as well.
When McDonald is on as you said she's virtually unstoppable.
On to this final. I think your comments implied what I think and that is Stanford has zero margin for error in this game. Playing to their potential and consistently throughout the game they can beat the Ducks. The question is after their semifinal game physically can they do that and what will their mental state be.
Without a doubt this is one of the best games that we will be able to see before we get to the Sweet 16.
DefenseBB
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Ok, how is tOSU Lousy? Besides have an RPI #16 and a Massey Rating #19 and some pretty good wins over Louisville to name 1, Indiana to name 2 and Iowa to name 3, maybe you need to do a little research before you type...
nwhoopfan
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I thought Arizona played well enough to beat the vast majority of teams in the country yesterday. That they lost by 18 speaks to how potent Oregon is.
Arizona is very good defensive team and that will help them during the NCAA tourney. McDonald was special yesterday, but typically can't be counted on to make three-pointers. She was 4/9 from behind the arc yesterday. Teams in the dance will back off of McDonald and encourage her to take threes rather than have to deal with her drives. That is not her strength and is reflected in her 3FG% of 27.8% this season. That is what she needs to vastly improve to be successful in the WNBA. She did what she did yesterday while wearing an air cast during the game. An amazing competitor....
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nwhoopfan
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True, but she still scored a bunch of points that weren't on 3's. She is so quick off the dribble. Even backing off her, it's pretty hard to keep her out of the lane.
True. Ohio State has 11 losses, but the #1 SOS in the country. I'm hoping that Maryland takes them out in the Big 10 title game because I don't want them elevated to a projected #4 and host with those 11 losses.
@Plebe,
Can you reassure me that Ohio State won't host if it can beat Maryland today?
Plebe
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Very doubtful. I think a 5 seed would be their ceiling even with a win.
Thanks... I will stress less knowing that. Still hoping that Oregon State did enough earlier in the season to cling to it's currently projected #4 seed. The other dominoes appear to be falling in Oregon State's favor thus far.
Plebe
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Yeah, frankly they've been fortunate in that regard. Haven't done much themselves to grab it, but no one else has either. Again, DePaul is the more vulnerable team so that actually provides a cushion for OSU.
I reluctantly must agree with you. The Beavs haven't taken advantage of golden opportunities to finish signature wins this season. However, they are battle-tested and have made the most of their past four Sweet Sixteen or better runs including the Final Four in 2016. Their guard play gives them a puncher's chance if they can shoot well.
A post worthy of @Carnac himself. Although it is still mind-blowing that Stanford can keep Prechtel tethered to the bench (the PAC-12 6th Person of the Year played 2 minutes last night) and still got up on UCLA by 26 in the fourth quarter before coasting. Stanford in 2020-2021 should be a preseason favorite along with South Carolina and UConn for the national title.
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I'll answer your question as my opinion is based on national rankings as I respect the coaches who play the teams they rank and the media who watch the games they rank over some RPI/Massey ratings which usually overrates Big 10 teams and get them seeded too high as they usually underperform in the actual NCAA tournament when they play better teams with worse "RPI" ratings. When I checked before I made that post (my little research), tOSU was not currently ranked in either poll nor received any votes in either poll which meant 1 or more voters thought 42 teams were better than tOSU. Finally as you cherrypick (Plebe's word) a few of their wins, don't forget some of their 11 losses were: 2 OOC losses at home including to MAC team, Ohio (18-11), 3 Big 10 losses at home including to Purdue (18-14), and a pretty bad loss at MSU (16-14) as well as to an unranked Rutgers in Piscataway, but at least Rutgers got a few votes in the last poll.
So that is why I think tOSU is lousy, but if they can beat a much better Maryland team in the Big 10 championship. I will grant that they have improved from thecteam with 11 losses. Win or lose my guess they might even get a vote or two in this week's polls. One other point as it relates to the best team in the Big 10, I personally have a wait and see approach as to their worthiness as a 1 seed considering how Maryland the last 4 years have been disappontment in the NCAA tourney, primarily losing to worse seeded PAC12 teams,. 7th Seed UW in 2016, 10th seeded Oregon in 2017, and 6th seeded UCLA last year obviously had inferior RPI numbers, but just were better teams than Maryland on the court and won those games.
Carnac
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Speaking of South Carolina, they "handled" Mississippi State today, and made it look easy. They’ve won something like 26 games in a row? I think this might be their year.
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Plebe
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If Ohio State is lousy, Arizona State is really lousy. And so I guess Oregon lost to a really lousy team.
Yes they lost twice to two currently ranked teams including ASU which both polls still have ranked and ahead of tOSU. At this point only South Carolina has the better record in WCBB and deserves the top seed. Ducks still need to beat their 9th top 15 team so have a little more work to do before the NCAA tourney. We'll just see how those Big 10 teams and PAC12 teams do in the NCAAs to find out who's lousy or not. Can't wait until the games get played.
Plebe
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Ha the only reason ASU is ranked is because Oregon lost to them. Not sure that counts.
And they certainly won’t be ranked on Monday after losing to Cal.
Probably, but that's the point. Cal, the PAC12 last place team, was good enough to beat Arkansas, a ranked 3rd place SEC team as well as beating the ranked Arizona teams.
DefenseBB
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So you want to go off of Poll-votes? The same set of people who were voting for Stony Brook to be in the poll? The same voter of Deb Antonelli who voted for Louisville 3 weeks in a row when they clearly were NOT #1? That’s how you want to rationalize a team. The Buckeyes have more than earned their way into the NCAAT and will win their1st round game and be one of the top 32 teams left so if tOSU is lousy what exactly is Notre Dame? Putrid, pathetic, disgusting? You’re new here but you hopefully can start to show logic and understanding how rankings and metrics work.
If not, many people may be hitting the ignore button...
DefenseBB
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I am Huge fan of Scott Rueck but this years team is not a great team and given I have watched about 12-13 of their games, they have too many holes in their game to get beyond a Sweet 16 game. I just don’t see this team doing anything special. Whether they deserve to host is probably more yes than no.
I'll take that as a mild endorsement for OSU hosting. As a #6 seed in 2018, the Beavs had a puncher's chance against a quality Baylor team. Beaver fans just want the opportunity to have the team play at Gill Coliseum for perhaps two more games. Beyond that, the margin for error and less-than-optimal play gets smaller.
I agree with your logic on ND and probably wouldn't use your adjectives for their team and athlete's, but I would use Plebe's words "really lousy". They are certainly worse this year than than tOSU & Plebe's reference ASU. We have to enjoy our 2018 & 2019 memories and forget 2020, the worst falloff from a championship game since Louisville's 2009 team as both teams lost 18 the following year. Again we will see how far all these teams starting 12 days from now in real games where neither polls nor RPI matter. That's ultimately the only logic that matters to me.