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OT: World Series

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Both calls were easy to make and that was still the right call the other night.

Oh, I looked at it from the standpoint that you were comparing a call that required Torre and the umpires to explain it in a post-game press conference and required Torre to also say they may revise it in the offseason - to a pickoff attempt.

Shame on me.:eek:
 
They may walk Ortiz, but I am much higher on Nava. I get your point about the washout at the bottom of the order, but the games are so low scoring.

More important to score runs at the top of the order.

That's been tried...Albeit, under extenuating circumstances (i.e. the Earthquake), the 1989 San Francisco Giants had a manufacturing and murderous top 4 (Butler, Thompson, Williams, and Mitchell), with a creampuff lower part, and the A's had their way with them...Though what happened to the A's in 1988, they probably weren't being denied, 7.3 shaker or not.
 
If the runner was in the baseline, he doesn't trip.
apparently the rule allows the baserunner to "create his own baseline" or something to that effect, which sounds strange on the surface, but whatever. The whole rule will be refined this offseason, who knows what they'll do or how they'll re-word things.

Anyway, game 5, Sox need to go for the throat here. Keep the players in the lineup the same, and maybe just maybe one of these freakin times Drew will actually get a solid line drive hit. thank god he's fielding like a gold glover out there.
 
If the runner was in the baseline, he doesn't trip.

He doesn't have to be within the baseline in that circumstance. Allen has to take a direct line to the next base. It was the correct interpretation of a poorly constructed rule...End of discussion. It is now a best of 3 series with two games at home and the "top" 3 starters for each team pitching.

This has been an entertaining series if not very well played.
 
apparently the rule allows the baserunner to "create his own baseline" or something to that effect, which sounds strange on the surface, but whatever. The whole rule will be refined this offseason, who knows what they'll do or how they'll re-word things.

Anyway, game 5, Sox need to go for the throat here. Keep the players in the lineup the same, and maybe just maybe one of these freakin times Drew will actually get a solid line drive hit. thank god he's fielding like a gold glover out there.

I'll take a seeing eye single to the hole formerly occupied by the short stop on a hit and run!!!!
 
I'll take a seeing eye single to the hole formerly occupied by the short stop on a hit and run!!!!
I'll take one too. At least in his last two at bats in made solid contact. I think he will reward Farrell's faith in him. But what about Salty? I have the feeling that Ross may be the catcher for the rest of the way. And I'm OK with that.
 
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He doesn't have to be within the baseline in that circumstance. Allen has to take a direct line to the next base. It was the correct interpretation of a poorly constructed rule...End of discussion. It is now a best of 3 series with two games at home and the "top" 3 starters for each team pitching.

This has been an entertaining series if not very well played.
I think all most Sox fans want is an acknowledgement that the umpire made a JUDGEMENT call and interpreted the rule. There is/was gray area because IF the runner goes the roundabout route and doesn't step over Middlebrooks they STILL could have called obstruction but probably would not have. Its a tough one as I'd say its 70% or so obstruction. St. Louis fans would have a much better argument and greater injustice if the runner was called out, BUT there is nonetheless merit to the 'no obstruction' argument and its a crime for a World Series game to be decided with ANY uncertainty.

Last night a St. Louis runner stepped around Ross' blocking of the plate. Very different but illustrates that runners do have an option and sometimes, especially if you've got a hurt leg and see a giant body that you have to push down, it might be better to move around an obstacle rather than smack into it. Not that he's a brilliant decision maker, but a quick footed runner such as Kolten Wong probably would have turned the other way around Middlebrooks and made it home easily. I think both Allen Craig purposefully (& smartly) chose the direct route also because Middlebrooks was in the way and that Middlebrooks played up being in the way a little bit (I know it doesn't matter, intention doesn't matter per the rules, I get it) almost like a basketball player that is slow getting up to delay his opponent.
 
I think all most Sox fans want is an acknowledgement that the umpire made a JUDGEMENT call and interpreted the rule. There is/was gray area because IF the runner goes the roundabout route and doesn't step over Middlebrooks they STILL could have called obstruction but probably would not have. Its a tough one as I'd say its 70% or so obstruction. St. Louis fans would have a much better argument and greater injustice if the runner was called out, BUT there is nonetheless merit to the 'no obstruction' argument and its a crime for a World Series game to be decided with ANY uncertainty.

Last night a St. Louis runner stepped around Ross' blocking of the plate. Very different but illustrates that runners do have an option and sometimes, especially if you've got a hurt leg and see a giant body that you have to push down, it might be better to move around an obstacle rather than smack into it. Not that he's a brilliant decision maker, but a quick footed runner such as Kolten Wong probably would have turned the other way around Middlebrooks and made it home easily. I think both Allen Craig purposefully (& smartly) chose the direct route also because Middlebrooks was in the way and that Middlebrooks played up being in the way a little bit (I know it doesn't matter, intention doesn't matter per the rules, I get it) almost like a basketball player that is slow getting up to delay his opponent.

If Metheny or Oquendo are worth their salt, they would have argued obstruction, much like Mazzilli/Torre did in 2000. Chances are, the game ended on obstruction, regardless...Unless Craig stopped halfway down the line. As soon as Craig slid, he committed to trying to score and was awarded the next base, which was home.

Look at it this way, At least the Cardinals didn't throw behind Victorino and Big Matt Adams and Adams lifted Vic's leg off the bag, a la Kent Hrbek

 
I'll take one too. At least in his last two at bats in made solid contact. I think he will reward Farrell's faith in him. But what about Salty? I have the feeling that Ross may be the catcher for the rest of the way. And I'm OK with that.
Yes, I also think they go with Ross. Salty's plus is his offense but he has struck out a lot and hasn't hit a ball hard in awhile. At least they pick up some D with Ross. Bogarts at SS and Middlebrooks at 3B is intriguing but I think Farrell goes with Drew.
 
Yes, I also think they go with Ross. Salty's plus is his offense but he has struck out a lot and hasn't hit a ball hard in awhile. At least they pick up some D with Ross. Bogarts at SS and Middlebrooks at 3B is intriguing but I think Farrell goes with Drew.

Can you guarantee that Bogaerts makes the same plays as Drew? I don't want to find out. Bogaerts average 3B Defense and hitting + Drew's above average D and lack thereof > Bogaerts average SS Defense and Hitting + Middlebrooks mediocre 3B Defense and below average hitting.
 
The baseline is wider than the chalk line.
Yes, about 3" either side of the chalk line except from home to 1B when the runner must be in the box in foul territory. The runner from home to first can be called out for running in fair territory but rarely is.
 
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Can you guarantee that Bogaerts makes the same plays as Drew? I don't want to find out. Bogaerts average 3B Defense and hitting + Drew's above average D and lack thereof > Bogaerts average SS Defense and Hitting + Middlebrooks mediocre 3B Defense and below average hitting.
No I can't guarantee anything just as you can not guarantee Drew can continue good D. I wasn't recommending it, just thought that it would be interesting. It is likely next years infield. The only reason I would think about doing it in St. Louis is because Ross is a poor hitter and with Drew, Ross and the pitcher in the lineup the Sox are challenged on offense.
 
No I can't guarantee anything just as you can not guarantee Drew can continue good D. I wasn't recommending it, just thought that it would be interesting. It is likely next years infield. The only reason I would think about doing it in St. Louis is because Ross is a poor hitter and with Drew, Ross and the pitcher in the lineup the Sox are challenged on offense.

Agreed. My response is 1) Dance with who brung ya. Lackey out of the Bullpen notwithstanding, the World Series is no time to start experimenting; and 2) I think of Ross more as a part of the pitching staff, than he is the offensive line up. His knowledge and experience + Drew's defensive ability is worth the lack of offensive production. As much as Drew does not produce he probably save an equal share of runs.

It's funny. For as much as McCarver and Buck gush over Yadier Molina, He looks into the Cardinal dugout before each and every pitch. Metheny calls the game, not Molina.
 
As long as Ortiz keeps hitting .800 you can keep Drew in the lineup.
 
So is your

Sorry, couldn't resist.
The runner from home to first can be called out for running in fair territory but rarely is.
Danzz, Today at 4:18 PM Report
Wait... the runner can be called out for running in fair territory from 3rd to home? That runner didn't make it into foul territory until the last couple steps and the alleged obstruction clearly took place in fair territory. If there is any instance in MLB of a runner being called out for running in fair territory from 3rd to home, I'm changing my percent right v wrong call to 50-50.
No, there is no box on the third base line. The only way a runner can be called for interference is if he is hit with a batted ball in fair territory before a fielder touches it. That is why the lead off third is taken in foul territory.
 
No, there is no box on the third base line. The only way a runner can be called for interference is if he is hit with a batted ball in fair territory before a fielder touches it. That is why the lead off third is taken in foul territory.
Yeah I read that too quickly while working earlier and thought it included 3rd to home. Everyone knows you run in the foul territory to avoid batted balls (I don't think that's called interference, its being struck by a batted ball), nitpicking but that 3rd to home runner could be out for interference if he ran in fair (or even foul, but much less likely*) territory and interfered with the fielding of a bunt attempt. Also if the 3rd baseman runs past and misses a bunt and then the ball hits a runner I don't think he'd be out because it passed an infielder.

* I could see say ARod running right into a guy in foul territory attempting to catch a foul ball. Or maybe Arod would get next to the fielder and just yell "I'M A GINORMOUS " and be called for verbal interference despite the fact that his statement was undeniably true.
 
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No, there is no box on the third base line. The only way a runner can be called for interference is if he is hit with a batted ball in fair territory before a fielder touches it. That is why the lead off third is taken in foul territory.
In addition, runners on third are taught to come down the line foul and come back to the bag fair to make the catcher's throw more difficult and maybe get hit.
 
Yeah I read that too quickly while working earlier and thought it included 3rd to home. Everyone knows you run in the foul territory to avoid batted balls (I don't think that's called interference, its being struck by a batted ball), nitpicking but that 3rd to home runner could be out for interference if he ran in fair (or even foul, but much less likely*) territory and interfered with the fielding of a bunt attempt. Also if the 3rd baseman runs past and misses a bunt and then the ball hits a runner I don't think he'd be out because it passed an infielder.

I could see say ARod running right into a guy in foul territory attempting to catch a foul ball. Or maybe Arod would get next to the fielder and just yell "I'M A GINORMOUS " and be called for verbal interference despite the fact that his statement was undeniably true.

Anything like Pedey trying to take the ball out of the 1st baseman's glove??? You guys are pitiful sometime and just don't see it.......always ARod....the guys a d**k but you have some just as bad on your squad I promise!!
 
For the record, it was the correct call, if calling strictly by the book. It is a stupid rule. On the other hand, "Spirit of rule" is interpreted during almost every game at some point or another.

Case in in point the neighborhood rule at second base on a DP attempt. Knoblauch almost never hit second base when he had possession of the ball (whether he was on the Twins, Yankees, or the few games he played 2B as a Royal).

I can also remember a play in a regular season Subway Series (when the Mets were good). where Todd Zeile was playing 1st and Knoblauch ran around him but was gunned down at second. Torre argued obstruction, where Knoblauch didn't even touch Zeile, nor was he impeded. Zeile was facing the outfield and didn't see even see Chucky round first. Chucky was granted 2nd base and the Yankees, of course, went on to win as they always did back then.

Funny how you used a Yankee for your example.........you a closet guy and watch them a lot?:D
 
Funny how you used a Yankee for your example.........you a closet guy and watch them a lot?:D
While I am from central MA, my extended family is from the Capital Region and I live in central CT. I have more than a handful of friends and realitives who are Yankee fans. Of course I watch them a lot. They are unavoidable. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

Btw, Knobby is a Twin in my book and my examples were originally off the top of my head.
 
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Average of $1900 a seat with some bleachers having gone for $1700 for tonights game according to WWLP news? Wow, would like to yank those tix back from my boss and customers and SELL.........fk the clincher!! LOL
 
Average of $1900 a seat with some bleachers having gone for $1700 for tonights game according to WWLP news? Wow, would like to yank those tix back from my boss and customers and SELL.........fk the clincher!! LOL
You could sit in the Grandstands at $50/pop for almost half the regular season games for that one game price!
 
As long as Ortiz keeps hitting .800 you can keep Drew in the lineup.
Plus I think Drew is starting to make solid contact again. He delivered a sacrifice fly and hit on to the warning track. All season long he had been streaky. Maybe this is his time.?
 
Average of $1900 a seat with some bleachers having gone for $1700 for tonights game according to WWLP news? Wow, would like to yank those tix back from my boss and customers and SELL.........fk the clincher!! LOL

If I had tickets, I would certainly entertain offers. But then again, I've experienced Playoff Games (1998 ALDS Game 2 at Yankee Stadium, 2003 ALDS, Game 4 at Fenway, and 2003 ALCS at Fenway, Game 4), series clinching games (2004 ALDS) and the World Series (Game 2, 2004). If I had not had those experiences, I would use the tickets myself and not think twice about it. The energy at, in, and around Fenway Park could light up the rest of the city.
 
Have to say I am curious as to why people are overpaying? I could see maybe in 2004 but your team has been there as of late so why the sudden need to be there for the clincher by paying 10x, 15x, 20x or more than the actual??
 
This is the first possible clincher of the World Series at Fenway since October 1975.
 
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