OT: US Open

[Robertelamin]

Is Serena elite???

 

[superjohn]

She waived around her child and fake sexism like a loaded gun.

She’s a scumbag. Plain and simple.

You act like that in any other sport and you don’t even get to finish the game.

This was nothing new for her or for tennis players in general. They have always berated umps and the match is almost never if ever stopped. You shouldn't be comparing tennis to other sports.

She had a really bad moment which can happen to competitors on the biggest stage especially when things aren't going right. She screwed up but calling her a scumbag is over the line, she's probably been the greatest ambassador ever for women's tennis.

She's now got Sambo minstrel cartoons of her being posted in newspapers.

 

[the Q]

This was nothing new for her or for tennis players in general. They have always berated umps and the match is almost never if ever stopped. You shouldn't be comparing tennis to other sports.

She had a really bad moment which can happen to competitors on the biggest stage especially when things aren't going right. She screwed up but calling her a scumbag is over the line, she's probably been the greatest ambassador ever for women's tennis.

She's now got Sambo minstrel cartoons of her being posted in newspapers.

Is 5 straight minutes normal?

 

[8893]

Haha. Love this place.

Destroying faith in humanity since 1998.©

 

[Dogdeacon]

I posted where the governing body of the sport admitted the mistake and 3/4 of the people on here are still blaming Serena Williams. You simply cannot hand the opponent a game at that moment. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I had paid money to be at that match. As a viewer I felt massively cheated.

That match could have been played and Osaka would have won on her merits, nothing Williams said was directed at her opponent and there is simply no reason not to turn the other cheek. Any setting example or precedent angle is moot, because now they are going to change the rules or enforcement of them.

 

[tzznandrew]

Again, she acted like a petulant baby but you simply can't remove race from the equation when it comes to Serena and tennis. I don't see race being involved at all in what went down on Saturday but just because she's the darling of tennis the last few years doesn't mean she hasn't been treated differently than virtually everyone on tour throughout her career. It wasn't exactly subtle earlier in her career. If she has her back up on this sort of stuff there is a reason.

I'm only talking about race because you brought race into it, to my knowledge Serena didn't.

I mean, the two are friends now and all, but this is about as unsubtle as you get...

 

[intlzncster]

We are pretty racist but we absolutely suck at it compared to Australians.

I'd say it's pretty similar, but they are better at integration (these days that is). They have the same old school yabos who are similar to our southern redneck in views of the world.

Australians are looser with satire, and far better at handling controversial jokes than Americans imo.

Source: first hand experience of over 8+ years.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

This wasn't the first time Serena Williams faced controversy at the U.S. Open - NY Daily News

Alas, when williams stated, "Every time I play here (Flushing Meadows), I have problems.", she misspoke, fibbed, was untruthful, etc. Interesting, common theme williams' over-the-top, emotional overreaction. But, she's a 37-year old adult parent and similar to an infant her child's age melting down. Thr NY Daily News confirmation such problems have not occurred every time williams has played at Flushing Meadows is interesting

 

[intlzncster]

She waived around her child and fake sexism like a loaded gun.

She’s a scumbag. Plain and simple.

You act like that in any other sport and you don’t even get to finish the game.

Meh, 'scumbag' is too much. She's more a petulant, entitled child* than anyone actually bad. Scumbag's assault their wives.

*not sexist, Mcenroe was too.

 

[intlzncster]

Serena's actions were themselves 100% in the wrong. The only thing compelling me to defend her in any sense is that I don't find this to be a fair penalty. The Nalbandian example was extreme, but there's plenty of evidence of men's tour players berating officials and facing a lot less in the consequences department.

The Nalbandian thing was also 6 years ago. So you'd probably expect fines to go up. I'd imagine purses have?

 

[the Q]

Meh, 'scumbag' is too much. She's more a petulant, entitled child* than anyone actually bad. Scumbag's assault their wives.

*not sexist, Mcenroe was too.

Read my tag line under the username.

I admit to having a low bar to disliking people.

 

[8893]

Read my tag line under the username.

I admit to having a low bar to disliking people.

It's good to have goals.

 

[huskyrob1]

Serena's actions were themselves 100% in the wrong. The only thing compelling me to defend her in any sense is that I don't find this to be a fair penalty. The Nalbandian example was extreme, but there's plenty of evidence of men's tour players berating officials and facing a lot less in the consequences department.

Name another Major final where anyone, male or female ever did something like this. Doing what she did at center Court of the US Open final is just crazy, and ruining the day for Osaka the 20 yr old champion. The $17,000 fine she got was not nearly enough.

 

[the Q]

Destroying faith in humanity since 1998.©

If someone needs a message board to lose faith in humanity they’re probably a shut in.

 

[intlzncster]

If someone needs a message board to lose faith in humanity they’re probably a shut in.

Still, we try.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

I'd say it's pretty similar, but they are better at integration (these days that is). They have the same old school yabos who are similar to our southern redneck in views of the world.

Australians are looser with satire, and far better at handling controversial jokes than Americans imo.

Yabos? Hah, let's keep mammary especially the old school version out of the discussion. Now, bogans (Aussie rednecks) clearly bear some similarities with US rednecks. Often even less refined, yet certainly similar.

On the other hand, Aussie satire and handling of controversial jokes benefits from boat loads of Irish prisoners imprisoned by the barstad English, some of the unusual positive ironies of English colonialism, and a comparably smallish population. And, Aussies generally handle self-deprecating and ironic humor better than many US Americans. Well, except when a few too many are frequently absolutely piss drunk.

 

[intlzncster]

Yabos? Hah, let's keep mammary especially the old school version out of the discussion. Now, bogans (Aussie rednecks) clearly bear some similarities with US rednecks. Often even less refined, yet certainly similar.

On the other hand, Aussie satire surely and handling of controversial jokes benefits from boat loads of Irish prisoners imprisoned by the barstad English, some of the unusual positive ironies of English colonialism, and a comparably smallish population. And, Aussies generally handle self-deprecating and ironic humor better than many US Americans. Well, except when a few too many are frequently absolutely piss drunk.

Not sure what you're getting at with the first bit but, "Something that is yabo is usually unrefined, gigantic, coarse, childish, colorful, self-conscious, permanent, loud, superficial, vulgar, snobbish, boorish"

'Bogan' as traditionally used, yes, but it is a weird crossover term these days. It also includes groups like Chavs, and ethnic groups like Lebanese where there is racial issues of their own.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

And, of course, we get ...

... a stomping Mr T pictured in a sort of tennis skirt. Oh Aussies ...

 

[Dogdeacon]

Name another Major final where anyone, male or female ever did something like this. Doing what she did at center Court of the US Open final is just crazy, and ruining the day for Osaka the 20 yr old champion. The $17,000 fine she got was not nearly enough.

You are wrong. It is an easy search, first of two descriptions below from a final, way more extreme and the penalty was a point vs a game. Link is to general verbal abuse not necessarily in majors or finals but certainly ample evidence that abuse by males is held to different standard.

"Five-time major champion Martina Hingis held a 6-4, 2-0 lead on legend Steffi Graf in the 1999 French Open final when she disputed a call and became angry when she thought the umpire checked the wrong mark. Hingis walked over to Graf’s side of the net, kept complaining and refused to play until talking to a tournament referee. That move backfired too – Hingis was assessed a point penalty – and the meltdown was on. Graf came back with ease, winning her 22nd and final Grand Slam title before retiring one month later. Hingis would never win another.

From the US Open (not final, but 4th round of same tourney):
"With all of New York on his side, the irascible, 39-year-old Connors was at another make-or-break moment in his storybook run at the 1991 Open. Trailing by a set, the birthday boy hit an overhead that was called out by the chair, bringing a set point for Aaron Krickstein that could have given the youngster a two set lead. Knowing he had the full support of the crowd, Connors set in on the chair umpire, delivering a bullying verbal beatdown intended to win points with an already-rabid crowd. Connors won the next three points to even the match, went off again on the umpire later in the match when his back was against the wall and, of course, beat Krickstein in a match that’s become a replay staple during U.S. Open rain delays for a quarter-century."

The Worst Tantrums of All Time in Men's Tennis

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Not sure what you're getting at with the first bit but, "Something that is yabo is usually unrefined, gigantic, coarse, childish, colorful, self-conscious, permanent, loud, superficial, vulgar, snobbish, boorish"

Alas, a British English dictionary definition of yob, yobbo, or yobboes. Aussies being Aussie, they likely spell it incorrectly as yabo. Nope, not the same as the Yank slang yabo(s) as in female pectorial protrusions. Important info!

 

[Pudge]

Yeah guys have gotten suspended in the NBA finals (Draymond recently, the Knicks players I think way back) but never before has something happened DURING a decisive game where points are put up on the scoreboard that had such a deterministic affect on the outcome. At 5-3 it was effectively over and that's just not the officials call to make and there is absolutely no reason he couldn't have swallowed his whistle and pride.

The fact that 'coaching' had NEVER in his career been called on Williams' coach before and it was called in a championship match is a really important point. That totally unprecedented call (at least for him, not sure if there's ever been a coaching penalty assessed before in a Grand Slam event final?) precipitated this mess and this is extremely material because it literally had NOTHING to do with Williams behavior. The FIRST of just 3 infractions assessed to Williams did not even involve her. And the official easily could have looked the other way when she smashed her racket (also true that she shouldn't have done that) AND the official should have warned her that if she continued her lecture he would assess a game penalty. This is officiating common sense at a remedial level and any and every sport encourages that so that the players can decide the thing.

The fact that we could hear William's audio and she didn't call him a forkin thief or a sumabeach cheating liar scumbucket (in honor of Burt & Jackie Gleason) illustrates that is was far from intolerable abuse. If you were at the stadium and in the 30th row, you'd assume she must have laid into him with every epitaph in the book to get that penalty.

We all revere McEnroe and Connor for their fiery displays back in the day, culturally it is simply harder for us to take or understand that behavior from a woman and even tolerate much less celebrate it. Yes Williams behavior was bad, but it is possible for that to be true whilst what the official did be far worse and for the official's implicit bias to be embedded in his actions. Wake up.

I don't think there's anything wrong to castigate Serena Williams for her behavior and for the demonstration WHILE losing; that was a big part of this.

HOWEVER, there is no reason that umpire should do decisive matches going forward. Sure, Dennis Rodman, Draymond Green yada yada. But there is no way LeBron James (and she does have that pedigree in this sport) gets this trivial treatment in the Final crucial match. Osaka would have finished it out ... kicking Serena's butt. Carlos Ramos inserted this petty crap into it.

 

[the Q]

I don't think there's anything wrong to castigate Serena Williams for her behavior and for the demonstration WHILE losing; that was a big part of this.

HOWEVER, there is no reason that umpire should do decisive matches going forward. Sure, Dennis Rodman, Draymond Green yada yada. But there is no way LeBron James (and she does have that pedigree in this sport) gets this trivial treatment in the Final crucial match. Osaka would have finished it out ... kicking Serena's butt. Carlos Ramos inserted this petty crap into it.

That preferential treatment is a major problem though. Maybe they should.

You’re either a sport or you’re sports entertainment.

Can’t be both.

The NBA and nfl picked one side.

Baseball typically the other.

I hope tennis follows Baseball...just like I do every other sport.

 

[Stainmaster]

That preferential treatment is a major problem though. Maybe they should.

You’re either a sport or you’re sports entertainment.

Can’t be both.

The NBA and nfl picked one side.

Baseball typically the other.

I hope tennis follows Baseball...just like I do every other sport.

20 years from now, you’ll be too angry about what you call the “entertainment” aspect to follow any sports. Enjoy getting your fix from game shows.

 

[the Q]

20 years from now, you’ll be too angry about what you call the “entertainment” aspect to follow any sports. Enjoy getting your fix from game shows.

20 years?

I’ve alreay dumped the nfl and NBA.

Baseball is beautiful and pure. It’s amazing.

I’d rather watch pro wrestling than that either the nfl or NBA.

 

[Stainmaster]

20 years?

I’ve alreay dumped the nfl and NBA.

Baseball is beautiful and pure. It’s amazing.

I’d rather watch pro wrestling than that either the nfl or NBA.

Your loss.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Your loss.

Ironically baseball's failure to understand it is entertainment and the games don't need to be 3 freakin' + hours long is part of why these days I joined the throng that rarely watch until the playoffs. Used to be my favorite sport, but the failure to adapt makes it painful viewing, my kids will not watch if I put it on while they are in the room.
But on the plus side (?!) not many of their players take a stance on social issues.

 

[Stainmaster]

Ironically baseball's failure to understand it is entertainment and the games don't need to be 3 freakin' + hours long is part of why these days I joined the throng that rarely watch until the playoffs. Used to be my favorite sport, but the failure to adapt makes it painful viewing, my kids will not watch if I put it on while they are in the room.
But on the plus side (?!) not many of their players take a stance on social issues.

I agree with you in large part. I love baseball on its merits and am one of the few who doesn’t mind the length of games, but I am saddened to see its comparative failure to advertise itself to younger groups of fans and ensure its long-term success.

Yeah, it seems to me that its players’ social views are what’s drawing people like those ITT to follow it at the expense of other sports.

 

[the Q]

Ironically baseball's failure to understand it is entertainment and the games don't need to be 3 freakin' + hours long is part of why these days I joined the throng that rarely watch until the playoffs. Used to be my favorite sport, but the failure to adapt makes it painful viewing, my kids will not watch if I put it on while they are in the room.
But on the plus side (?!) not many of their players take a stance on social issues.

I agree with you in large part. I love baseball on its merits and am one of the few who doesn’t mind the length of games, but I am saddened to see its comparative failure to advertise itself to younger groups of fans and ensure its long-term success.

Yeah, it seems to me that its players’ social views are what’s drawing people like those ITT to follow it at the expense of other sports.

I love Baseball.

I played in college. I was then an agent.

I subscribe to Baseball websites and some of my favorite memories are staying up with my dad for late games and the trade deadline (hate hate hate the 4pm deadline we have now).

Point is I’m not the casual fan like i was for those other sports.

That said I agree with you. Baseballs marketing needs work.

Who is the face of the game?

Trout is the best player but how many casual fans could point him out on the street?

Everyone knows who Lebron is. Who Brady and Rodgers are. And those latter 2 weak freaking helmets.

But thanks to the amazing technology of replay and questec and that Ilk, Baseball lacks the blatant favoritism towards certain players that NBA and nfl continue to insult the worlds intelligence by denying they exist. That alone makes Baseball superior.

 

[intlzncster]

I agree with you in large part. I love baseball on its merits and am one of the few who doesn’t mind the length of games, but I am saddened to see its comparative failure to advertise itself to younger groups of fans and ensure its long-term success.

Yeah, it seems to me that its players’ social views are what’s drawing people like those ITT to follow it at the expense of other sports.

Baseball has an anachronistic (read 'fascist') social media highlights policy.

Fans don't engage without social media anymore, and the lack of ability to comment, critique, meme, and mash up highlights really hurts the sports marketability.

 

[the Q]

Baseball has an anachronistic (read 'fascist') social media highlights policy.

Fans don't engage without social media anymore, and the lack of ability to comment, critique, meme, and mash up highlights really hurts the sports marketability.

I don’t do much social media so I haven’t followed this issue.

What do you mean?