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OT: UNC Academic Fraud Investigation

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ThisJustIn said:
https://www.google.com/search?q=espn unc academic scandal&oq=espn unc academ&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.15007j1j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8
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Not sure what you are saying, but since the detailed review has been released, there's been 3 stories in the past few days on this from ESPN (according to google).

This is the biggest story in college athletics in the past 40+ years. It has put to the test the concept of the 'student' athlete like nothing before it. It's far worse than any 'paying players' scandal.

There should be tons of content, from reporting to commentary/opinion, both written and video. It should be plastered all over the ESPN landing page and the lead story on every ESPN show in the lineup. imo
 
Bigpetunia said:
This is an appalling scandal, and the repercussions should be harsh. But with all the schadenfreude going around, along with breathtakingly idiotic statements suggesting that all UNC degrees conferred over the last 18 years should be considered worthless, we ought to reconcile ourselves to the fact that these practices are assuredly more widespread than we'd like to think. The scale of the fraud at UNC may or may not be unusual among Div 1 schools. I can assure you that, in the wake of this report, there are many other programs whose personnel is losing sleep over fear of a more widespread investigation. Their saving grace, as others have suggested, is that the NCAA would much rather sweep all of this under the carpet...just too many dollars at stake. But the myth that exists about so-called student/athletes, certainly at many of those institutions with 100,000 seat stadiums to fill, is only that...a myth. Some schools do a better job than others about putting over the deception.
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schadenfreude. Love that word. But for me, it's not about taking pleasure in UNC's self-inflicted disaster. It's about NOT seeing the games I love (college sports of all sorts) and the incredible student-athletes playing them becoming the target of ridicule and shame.
 
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intlzncster said:
Not sure what you are saying, but since the detailed review has been released, there's been 3 stories in the past few days on this from ESPN (according to google).

This is the biggest story in college athletics in the past 40+ years. It has put to the test the concept of the 'student' athlete like nothing before it.

There should be tons of content, from reporting to commentary/opinion, both written and video. It should be plastered all over the ESPN landing page and the lead story on every ESPN show in the lineup. imo
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SI just got burned on their big multi-week/multi-issue expose on abuses at Oklahoma State. The NCAA investigated and finally came out last week having found very little other than a few "Mo'ne-type" violations. Not axactly the same thing - SI initiated the OSU investigation, not an internal whitleblower - but ESPN might be a little gunshy.....?
 
The fact that non athletes took advantage of the "courses" is irrelevant to the point that UNC had an unfair advantage over their opponents. Likewise where it started is irrelevant. The "courses" were created by university employees, sanctioned by coaches, senior managers smelled something but didn't do anything, and most importantly over 3,100 "students" took advantage of them but the administration knew nothing about the situation.

Here is a question that I would also love to get answered - could this have happened in any other department like the english department or the philosophy department? of course not! Because their curriculum are scrutinized. No one would dare scrutinize the African Studies department and its curriculum for fear of being called racist.

The president of the ACC is the former AD at UNC during some of the years in question. Should he keep his job?
 
The NCAA has a mega problem here: They already investigated and came back with a "nothing to see here.... time to move on" verdict.

N0w an investigator THEY HIRED to look into the Miami situation comes out with a report saying all sorts of sh$t was going on and it focused on the athletic programs and, by the way, it's been going on for 18 YEARS and involved 3,100 students.

What does Mark Emert et al say at this point?????
 
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The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools' Commission on Colleges had placed the campus on its watch list until this summer and required the school to allow students who took a bogus course to take another for free… Belle Wheelan said.

"If we go back with the NCAA in our joint review, and ... if we've identified that we have played students who were ineligible, then obviously we would have to vacate wins at that time," UNC athletic director Bubba Cunningham said. "But as long as the courses and the credits and everything count to the accrediting agency, we're very comfortable with our certification process -- that our students were eligible to compete when they competed."

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The two statements above (quoted from ESPN), raise some interesting issues.

Does not the 1st statement (above) from the accrediting agency imply that all of the non-courses will eventually be declared to be non-events, leading to the taking back of diplomas, ineligibility and all of the following consequences?

Does not the statement by the apparently head-in-the ground, appropriately named Bubba strike one as total Alice-in-Wonderland as compared to that of Ms. Wheelan. Perhaps the NCAA will be compelled into inaction since the Southern Association will do the dirty work for them
 
Huskies Rule said:
schadenfreude. Love that word. But for me, it's not about taking pleasure in UNC's self-inflicted disaster. It's about NOT seeing the games I love (college sports of all sorts) and the incredible student-athletes playing them becoming the target of ridicule and shame.
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Absolutely right. It is NOT about making the athletes the "target of riducle and shame". They were kids, many of them coming in with sub-standard preparation for college (to say the least), with no real understanding of what college was supposed to be about, all or most of them looking ahead only to a career in professional sports. The ridicule and shame devolves on the faculty and administrators who "guided" them into phoney classes and assured them that this is the way the game is played, and the other faculty and administrator who, while not directly nvolved, knew what was happening and did nothing. Reportedly nine unidentified "employees" have been terminated, but there just have to be a helluva lot more folks who were involved, either directly or as guilty bystanders.
 
unc cheats.jpeg
 
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Great piece by Stewart Mandel who believes the NCAA has to act.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...al-wainstein-report-investigation-ncaa-102214

He compares the UNC fraud to what happened at Minnesota in 2000 when it was found that coach Clem Haskins' secretary wrote papers for 18 players over a five-period (w/ Haskins' knowledge, btw). The NCAA handed Minn a one-year ban from post-season play, reduced scholarships and vacated a FF appearance. The NCAA said then that the Minn violations were “among the most serious academic fraud violations to come before it in the past 20 years. The violations were significant, widespread and intentional. More than that, their nature — academic fraud — undermined the bedrock foundation of a university and the operation of its intercollegiate athletics program.”

Mandel:

On Wednesday, Kenneth L. Wainstein released the results of an independent investigation into academic fraud at the University of North Carolina so massive in scope that the word serious hardly does it justice. If three rogue employees and 18 cheating basketball players over a five-year period at Minnesota merited those strong words, what will the NCAA eventually say about a bogus-class scheme in Chapel Hill that Wainstein found to involve more than 3,100 students — 47.4 percent of them athletes — over 18 years?

And this on the women's BB counselor who then headed up the Ethics Center:

Just how widespread was this ring of corruption? Jan Boxill, a philosophy professor whose formal title is director of the Parr Center for Ethics, steered women’s basketball players to Crowder and literally named their grade. “Did you say a D will do?” Crowder wrote to Boxill in an e-mail about one player who had apparently recycled an old paper. “Yes, a D will be fine; that’s all she needs,” Boxill replied.

The NCAA has no choice but to deliver a stern punishment to North Carolina or risk losing all credibility whenever Emmert or its leaders talk big about the importance of academics. But what that punishment will be is anyone’s guess
 
j66kicker said:
BTW just heard that SMU is going to hire Mac Brown to coach their football team, for $4 million/year, in an attempt to get into the Big 12.
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They might, because they need a coach with recruiting connections in the Lone Star State...an area where June Jones inexplicably failed to prosper...
 
elzorrogris said:
Interesting article from the Daily Tar Heel. Sounds to me as if they are still trying to minimize and contain the blast. (The administration, not the writer of the article.)

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2014/10/faculty-athletic-counselors-facing-disciplinary-action
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I think you're being terribly polite, Br'er Fox. When I read the article, "obfuscate and bury" came to mind before "minimize and contain". Further, they're employing the academic version of " what happened in the past is in the past", or "didn't happen on my watch", or "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain". It's all "the future is nothing but sunshine and lollipops, so let's just put the little unpleasantness behind us".

Nobody, but nobody is emulating Harry Truman.
 
Br'er Bear; Migawd, I WAS being polite, wasn't I! Momentary slip. And sadly, I make it at least 5/1 they get away with it. Did you notice that no administrators' heads seem to be on the block? Not a single administrator seems to have had the slightest inkling of what was going on. Now you tell one.
 
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What I love about the NCAAs initial verdict and the ongoing excuses 'this was not just athletes, but involved non-athletes so it wasn't a 'special benefit' only available to scholarship athletes - therefore no foul' means that any enterprising booster club now has the formula to skirt NCAA's wrath. For ever dollar they give to an scholarship athlete under the table, they just need to be sure that they give a nearly equal amount to a non-athlete student. Cars, jewelry, whatever - I am amazed this didn't get used before.
 
UcMiami said:
What I love about the NCAAs initial verdict and the ongoing excuses 'this was not just athletes, but involved non-athletes so it wasn't a 'special benefit' only available to scholarship athletes - therefore no foul' means that any enterprising booster club now has the formula to skirt NCAA's wrath. For ever dollar they give to an scholarship athlete under the table, they just need to be sure that they give a nearly equal amount to a non-athlete student. Cars, jewelry, whatever - I am amazed this didn't get used before.
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Part of the report is clear that the program was started for athletes but other students began to enroll in the classes as word spread.
 
pap49cba said:
ESPN video with 2 ex-coaches. "I know nothing!!!!"

LINK
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SO sincere and genuine! Mack Brown's former UNC players sending him pictures of their diplomas and telling him how proud they are and how hard they worked for them almost brought tears to my eyes. He was there when the whole thing started, and NOT ONCE in 10 years did he even so much as get a whiff of any improprieties. Well I guess that settles it.
 
Questions for the Boneyard Attorneys' Guild; Do you think that any or all of these 3100 students might have a case against UNC for fraud of some variety? Would it matter if they were paying their own tuition (or having it paid for them by parents, etc.) or were on full schollies? Would it matter if they were "advised" into one of the ghost classes or found their way in on their own? What might they ask as recompense? And if one or more of them DID sue successfully, do you think that might start a chain reaction, not among UNC grads alone but at other schools where rules might have been bent in a similar fashion? (I'd be amazed if there weren't some.)
 
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elzorrogris said:
Questions for the Boneyard Attorneys' Guild; Do you think that any or all of these 3100 students might have a case against UNC for fraud of some variety? Would it matter if they were paying their own tuition (or having it paid for them by parents, etc.) or were on full schollies? Would it matter if they were "advised" into one of the ghost classes or found their way in on their own? What might they ask as recompense? And if one or more of them DID sue successfully, do you think that might start a chain reaction, not among UNC grads alone but at other schools where rules might have been bent in a similar fashion? (I'd be amazed if there weren't some.)
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I doubt if all the athletes involved actually GOT degrees
 
elzorrogris said:
Questions for the Boneyard Attorneys' Guild; Do you think that any or all of these 3100 students might have a case against UNC for fraud of some variety? Would it matter if they were paying their own tuition (or having it paid for them by parents, etc.) or were on full schollies? Would it matter if they were "advised" into one of the ghost classes or found their way in on their own? What might they ask as recompense? And if one or more of them DID sue successfully, do you think that might start a chain reaction, not among UNC grads alone but at other schools where rules might have been bent in a similar fashion? (I'd be amazed if there weren't some.)
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Something like half the classes were 'independent study' classes - the rest were listed as 'lecture' classes - hard to complain about an independent study class that you did 'F' work in (as in NOTHING) and received an 'A' or that you took a 'lecture' class that had no lectures and didn't complain at the time.
Two other classes of students might have a better case - those who actually took legitimate AFAM classes and did college level work and whose resumes are now tainted. And while it is hard to believe any athlete at UNC over the last 18 years might actually have been declared academically ineligible with the volume and availability of these courses, there probably were some - they probably have a case against the school for not getting them in enough paper classes to keep them eligible!
 
intlzncster said:
Four titles in the past 16 yrs, Cam. Four! Very important to get that right. (yes I know it was 3 at the time).

The worst part of the whole thing was the double jeopardy punishment. UCONN failed in the APR department and was docked scholarships. Fine.

Subsequently, the NCAA created a rolling APR rule, which it applied retroactively. UCONN was then punished again (post season ban and JC suspension) under the new rule for the SAME offense. To top it off, UCONN was not allowed to use its most updated scores, which showed enough improvement for them to pass under the new rule. It was a witch hunt to any impartial observer.
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4 in 15 years (1999-2014). Very important to get that right.
 
elzorrogris said:
Another interesting item from the Daily Tar Heel;

“Between 1999 and 2009, there were 114 women’s basketball players enrolled in paper classes and the players were encouraged to take these classes by Boxill, their academic counselor.”

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article...n-jan-boxills-involvement-in-academic-scandal
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"In the report, women’s basketball coach Sylvia Hatchell knew that Boxill had a good relationship with Crowder and assumed that friendship was the reason many of her players were enrolled in African and Afro-American studies department classes. Hatchell said Boxill was in charge of coordinating classes for the players and never let on that the classes were irregularly taught." Yes, I'm sure.

"According to the document, Crowder emailed Boxill asking, “Did you say a D will do for (the basketball player)?” Boxill emailed back, “Yes a D will be fine; that’s all she needs.” Yet, Jean DeSaix, a biology professor and good friend of Boxill, said clarifying what grade a player needs to remain academically eligible does not necessarily mean she was requesting the professor give the player that grade." Well of course not!

“He recalled one particular situation when he gave a women’s basketball player a B+ even though he felt her paper was ‘terrible’ and was a ‘clear F,’” Wainstein wrote in the report. The report stated that Nyang’oro gave this grade because Boxill requested that he give the player a higher grade to maintain eligibility. DeSaix admitted she was biased because of her friendship with Boxill, but said she still had a hard time believing that Boxill would blatantly participate in unethical practices. “Jan is so, so ethical. It just — I don’t know — I can’t even make sense out of it,” she said. “It doesn’t feel right to me.” HELLO!!
 
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