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OT- Tony Stewart

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WingU-Conn said:
This is ironic considering you had to edit your post that said this...
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I edit my posts all the time for grammar, and to clarify my thoughts immediately after posting (upon reread). But I let everything stand once I'm satisfied.

I changed one post from 'murder' to 'manslaughter' when I saw that there was a distinction between the two later in the thread (for clarification). I even asked for further clarification after that.

I'm not a lawyer and am not privy to exact legal definitions of everything. He killed a guy; I thought that was murder; that was all I was saying. And if you were reading the post, it is very easy to tell what I'm trying to say. It's a simple reading comprehension thing...bearing in mind that not all of us are lawyers.
 
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Irish Loop said:
You can be, but even in the case of involuntary manslaughter, you need to either a) have been committing a crime, or b) been negligent. Just accidentally killing a person through no fault of your own is not, in fact, a crime, I believe.
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Add to the fact that auto racing is already inherently dangerous and the fact that the driver got out of the car and confronted oncoming traffic. No way in would a DA attempt to prosecute this one.
 
intlzncster said:
If he pulls to the left, then the back end will fishtail out to the right. The back end went out to the left, which means he would have pulled towards the right (towards the kid).

I think the car fishtailed because of contact with the kid, not because he's trying to avoid him or having lost control prior to contact.
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True, I remember the video wrong, just went back and watched it again.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
True, I remember the video wrong, just went back and watched it again.
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Whe he hit him as Warde's body was under the right rear tire, it caused a temporary loss of grip with would explain the car moving to the left.
 
ZooCougar said:
As a formerly obessesive motorsport fan I know enough to see that the stage has been set for a tragedy like this for quite some time.

Sprint Cars are the most dangerous race cars. The issues with the frames are not relevant but the issue of visibility is.

It's night time. Even with the best lights visibility is less perfect than in any vehicle. The victim is wearing black.

Sprint Cars have those big tube frame bars on the left and right side of where a windshield would normally be. Horizontal view is limited.

It's a dirt track. Clods of dirt collect on the helmet visor. Drivers use tear offs (multiple clear plastic "stickers" that are layered on top of eachother) protecbut they usually wait for the visor to get "full" before sripping it off for a fresh one.

The victim likely saw Stewart's car and moved closer to him. This always happens.

Nobody can drive a Sprint Car better than Tony Stewart. The idea that he lost control of the car under caution, is possible but not likely.

Either way, the conditions were set for a pretty bad accident and that is what happened.
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Finally someone knows what they are talking about.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
True, I don't believe NASCAR was the governing body for that race, but I believe it was Kurt Busch, not Stewart, who ran both NASCAR and the Indy 500 on the same day. But yeah, it's not totally uncommon for these guys to take part in other series or motorsports.
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It was Stewart

During that remarkable rookie season, where Stewart won three races en route to the rookie of the year title, he also competed in both the Indianapolis 500 and the Coca-Cola 600 on the same day. The grueling trek, known as “Double Duty,” saw Stewart compete in an Indy car at Indianapolis before flying to Concord, N.C., to compete in the Coca-Cola 600 that evening at Lowe’s Motor Speedway. He became the first driver to complete both races in the same day, finishing ninth and fourth, respectively. All told, Stewart drove a total of 1,090 miles.
 
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Here's my take, as equally uninformed as the rest of you:

Was Ward stupid to get out of his car and confront Stewart's moving vehicle? Unequivocally.

Is Stewart a hothead generally? Yes.

Did Stewart intend to hit Ward? No.

Did Stewart drive aggressively at Ward and intend to buzz/scare/intimidate him? Probably.

Is that provable in a court of law? Probably not.

I think it's correct to say that Tony Stewart is partially responsible for Ward's death, and -- as someone else has said -- that his intentional actions (driving close to Ward, possibly accelerating) ultimately caused it. I don't think, however, that you can prove it (i.e. a charge like manslaughter) beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
Someone already pointed out that both of them did it.
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I obviously didn't read down that far before responding...

As a casual race fan (I.e. I watch the Indy 500 and Dayton 500, but otherwise wait for the crashes), I don't remember hearing the about those other drivers doing it. Stewart's feat got a lot of publicity. Also Stewart used to drive for Joe Gibbs Racing. Joe Gibbs is the former Hall of Fame Coach of my favorite NFL team, the Washington Redskins and Stewart was always on the sidelines at FedEx Field if he wasn't racing.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
Here's my take, as equally uninformed as the rest of you:

Was Ward stupid to get out of his car and confront Stewart's moving vehicle? Unequivocally.

Is Stewart a hothead generally? Yes.

Did Stewart intend to hit Ward? No.

Did Stewart drive aggressively at Ward and intend to buzz/scare/intimidate him? Probably.

Is that provable in a court of law? Probably not.

I think it's correct to say that Tony Stewart is partially responsible for Ward's death, and -- as someone else has said -- that his intentional actions (driving close to Ward, possibly accelerating) ultimately caused it. I don't think, however, that you can prove it (i.e. a charge like manslaughter) beyond a reasonable doubt.
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I don't see how anyone can say that Stewart probably drove aggresively at him.

I am not a Tony Stewart fan, I actually can't stand him. But in this case Ward is probably 100% responsible for his own death.

Would get out of your own car and confront an oncoming driver that was going even 35 mph? Would you even have to get that far down the track to make your point?

These guys have been doing this for years and sooner or later this was bound to happen.
 
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ZooCougar said:
Add to the fact that auto racing is already inherently dangerous and the fact that the driver got out of the car and confronted oncoming traffic. No way in would a DA attempt to prosecute this one.
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This is usually the case, but there is precedent for on field acts to rise to criminal level. Everyone does need to back off a bit. We can all speculate on the range of scenarios, but as of right now there is no evidence this was anything but an accident.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
Here's my take, as equally uninformed as the rest of you:

Was Ward stupid to get out of his car and confront Stewart's moving vehicle? Unequivocally.

Is Stewart a hothead generally? Yes.

Did Stewart intend to hit Ward? No.

Did Stewart drive aggressively at Ward and intend to buzz/scare/intimidate him? Probably.

Is that provable in a court of law? Probably not.

I think it's correct to say that Tony Stewart is partially responsible for Ward's death, and -- as someone else has said -- that his intentional actions (driving close to Ward, possibly accelerating) ultimately caused it. I don't think, however, that you can prove it (i.e. a charge like manslaughter) beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Change the first probably to possibly and you've nailed it.
 
SubbaBub said:
This is usually the case, but there is precedent for on field acts to rise to criminal level. Everyone does need to back off a bit. We can all speculate on the range of scenarios, but as of right now there is no evidence this was anything but an accident.
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It's unequivocally an accident.

The only issue I take here is that Tony Stewart "probably" did anything. Unless one of us is omniscient there is simply no way to know.
 
SubbaBub said:
Change the first probably to possibly and you've nailed it.
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Stewart would also have had to intentionally been in the right lane to "buzz" Ward.

It's beyond a stretch to believe he knew Ward would be out of his car, walking on the track to confront him, so he got himself in position before the turn.

At worst he had a second to swerve toward Ward with the intent to scare him.
 
temery said:
So you agree. You are interpreting a poster's intent, even though it's not what s/he said.
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Wrong.

And you're still wrong about not one poster saying he intentionally killed him. One poster did, and three pages of conversation continued until he edited it.

You don't nee to be a lawyer to know the difference between murder and manslaughter.
 
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jleves said:
The Corvette, which could never be confused with the Buick Skylark.

Anyone else get this reference?
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I got it, but I'll bet some of the other 'yoots' here are too young to get it.
 
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ZooCougar said:
I don't see how anyone can say that Stewart probably drove aggresively at him.

I am not a Tony Stewart fan, I actually can't stand him. But in this case Ward is probably 100% responsible for his own death.

Would get out of your own car and confront an oncoming driver that was going even 35 mph? Would you even have to get that far down the track to make your point?

These guys have been doing this for years and sooner or later this was bound to happen.
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Watched it again, confirmed what I saw. Ward gets out, walks down a little, then he sees Stewart's car and points at it (probably yelling you mother___ or some such). He starts walking towards Stewart as if he expects him to stop and engage in a fistfight or something. The Blue and White car misses him, the camera pans away and then back, and we see him get hit by the right rear quarter. His weight looks like it is on his right foot, leaning in to the car. Immediately after impact the rear of Stewart's car slides down, away from impact. I don't know if impact would knock the car down or not...on dirt perhaps.

Can't see criminal charges unless there is new, different evidence. Civil claim is likely, and it even under a contributory negligence standard, I think Stewart will be paying out a fair amount. He could have been going slower and could have been lower on the track, but Ward is mostly at fault.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Watched it again, confirmed what I saw. Ward gets out, walks down a little, then he sees Stewart's car and points at it (probably yelling you mother___ or some such). He starts walking towards Stewart as if he expects him to stop and engage in a fistfight or something. The Blue and White car misses him, the camera pans away and then back, and we see him get hit by the right rear quarter. His weight looks like it is on his right foot, leaning in to the car. Immediately after impact the rear of Stewart's car slides down, away from impact. I don't know if impact would knock the car down or not...on dirt perhaps.

Can't see criminal charges unless there is new, different evidence. Civil claim is likely, and it even under a contributory negligence standard, I think Stewart will be paying out a fair amount. He could have been going slower and could have been lower on the track, but Ward is mostly at fault.
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That Civil Suit will be a loser too. Once he got out of the car, Ward was assuming grave risk.
 
Get drunk, drive and kill some one. Then tell me about intent. Drive too fast and kill someone....
Someone starts hitting you and you accidentally kill them with a bat. Intent is not necessary that is why it is called negligent homicide,or in the last example, maybe manslaughter.
Intent is required for sin, according to the nuns I had, but not all crimes.

In this case, I would think if there was a clear attempt to intimidate, bump, spray with dirt, Tony could be looking at the possibility of negligent homicide.Not saying there was. Just saying it matters.
 
WingU-Conn said:
Wrong.

And you're still wrong about not one poster saying he intentionally killed him. One poster did, and three pages of conversation continued until he edited it.

You don't nee to be a lawyer to know the difference between murder and manslaughter.
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It wasn't even two pages. No need to make stuff up. It was right after I read SuperJohn's post referencing Vehicular manslaughter. So yeah, conversation continued until someone actually brought up the right term, and I changed it to reflect that. It's called being accurate. Look into it.

If you read it in context, it was easy to see what I was trying to say, but you either purposefully misinterpreted it or you had reading comprehension issues.

I think you are simply holding on to that straw, because it is the only thin shred backing your original claim.
 
ZooCougar said:
That Civil Suit will be a loser too. Once he got out of the car, Ward was assuming grave risk.
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Comparative negligence is the standard in most states. So if any part of this was Tony Stewart's fault, he'll pay something. I think it would be pretty easy to lay some of the blame on Stewart.
 
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