OT- Tony Stewart

[EdgewoodNHV]

It terrifies me how many people are ready to bust out the pitchforks and start a mob over this, given the total lack of evidence. It's one thing to be an "immature idiot," but it's an entirely different thing to kill a man. I hope I am never judged by a jury of my peers, because my peers are way too quick to assume guilt and don't seem to understand "reasonable doubt" or "proof."

 

[Marty Jackson]

I promise you I don't have an axe to grind, have you not watched Stewart's actions over the years? I could care less about Nascar and don't watch it but I'm well aware of his behavior over the years and it's pretty well known the guy has acted like an immature idiot many times in the past.

you don't have an axe to grind but your making a judgement about someone intentionally killing another individual based on questionable behavior in the past.
unless that questionable behavior included attempted murder, it sounds like you just might have an axe in your hand.

 

[temery]

Funny thing is I haven't seen one person here say Stewart intentionally killed Ward. Not one. Yet there are several people accusing others here of saying just that.

Some of y'all need to do a better job reading posts instead of reading into posts.

 

[intlzncster]

Tomei looked so hot in that movie and to top it off she was great!

Agreed. Minus the accent, which made her role good, but took away slightly from the hotness. Oh, who are we kidding? I would 100 times out of 100.

 

[intlzncster]

There has to be intent to commit a crime. Not necessarily intent to kill. Maybe intent to intimidate. Which Strummer is implying there is no evidence of, and I agree. That's how the court system works. You need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone committed a crime, and there is plenty of reasonable doubt, given the facts.

Don't eye witnesses count for anything? Granted, I haven't heard much along those lines. I have to think that if it was truly egregious, it would be all over the net.

 

[SubbaBub]

Agreed. Minus the accent, which made her role good, but took away slightly from the hotness. Oh, who are we kidding? I would 100 times out of 100.

She was better in the Wrestler, and more naked.

 

[intlzncster]

you do realize it's a dirt track... cars don't quite turn on a dime.
if anything, it looks like he tried to turn at the last second.

as for other drivers missing him, its more like the kid avoided the other cars then closed in on Tony's car.

I acknowledged the first point later in the thread. Also, if he tried to turn at the last second, he went the wrong way (not possible for a driver that skilled); those type of cars naturally turn the other way due to different sized wheels. More likely, the fishtail was a result of contact with the kid.
Don't agree with the second point. the kid was most aggressive towards the car before Tony.

 

[intlzncster]

She was better in the Wrestler, and more naked.

Tell me more. I haven't seen this 'Wrestler'.

 

[intlzncster]

It terrifies me how many people are ready to bust out the pitchforks and start a mob over this, given the total lack of evidence. It's one thing to be an "immature idiot," but it's an entirely different thing to kill a man. I hope I am never judged by a jury of my peers, because my peers are way too quick to assume guilt and don't seem to understand "reasonable doubt" or "proof."

Can't you be charged with manslaughter with zero intent? I am not a lawyer, so I have zero idea. The police have already backed off, so it wouldn't happen anyway.

 

[intlzncster]

Funny thing is I haven't seen one person here say Stewart intentionally killed Ward. Not one. Yet there are several people accusing others here of saying just that.

Some of y'all need to do a better job reading posts instead of reading into posts.

Most accurate post in the thread? People are more reactionary in the defense to a greater degree than anything else.

 

[temery]

Can't you be charged with manslaughter with zero intent? I am not a lawyer, so I have zero idea. The police have already backed off, so it wouldn't happen anyway.

I am no lawyer but I've watched every episode of Law and Order. From what I remember, if you plan on hurting someone, and they die, you'll be charge with murder. If you didn't plan harm, but they die from your intentional actions (in this case, brush him back, or scare the shit out of him), you'll probably be charged with manslaughter.

All bets are off if the prosecutor is running for reelection, or if he wants to teach you a lesson.

 

[SubbaBub]

Tell me more. I haven't seen this 'Wrestler'.

Oscar nominated movie starring Mickey Rourke as a broken down former pro wrestling star and Tomei as his stripper sometime girlfriend. Actually, a good movie.

 

[BlueMAB]

Funny thing is I haven't seen one person here say Stewart intentionally killed Ward. Not one. Yet there are several people accusing others here of saying just that.

Some of y'all need to do a better job reading posts instead of reading into posts.

Most accurate post in the thread? People are more reactionary in the defense to a greater degree than anything else.

This is ironic considering you had to edit your post that said this...

We'll see what NASCAR has to say about the murder.

Murder requires predetermined intent. So someone did say it, before editing it, and then there's this.

[QUOTE="James, post: 1031834, member: 254"]stewart totally hit the kid on purpose. it looked like he kinda sped up . mutliple cars passed the guy ward before he was hit[/QUOTE]

I can't tell Stewart's intent from that video. I also can't tell whether or not his actions were reckless.

It's obvious that Ward's actions were reckless. He got out of his car where he was relatively safe, and moved down to the middle of the race track where there were open wheeled vehicles traveling somewhere around 60 mph. That's reckless. He didn't deserve to die, but he put himself in that situation, not Tony Stewart. I'm not defending Tony Stewart, I'm refusing to accept anyone here knows his intent based on that video and just because he has a history of being a hot head. I'm pointing out the fact drivers are only supposed to exit their vehicle before safety personnel arrive if they are in danger. He wasn't in danger in that car, he put himself in danger with his reaction. Which, ironically and sadly, shows he was probably a hot-head too.

 

[Husky25]

I don't think NASCAR is going to investigate anything. I may me mistaken but NASCAR is not the governing body for Sprints so they don't have jurisdiction. Also Sprints are a completely different driving experience than stock cars. It's not unusual for a driver like Stewart to race different cars. Remember, he famously raced in the Indy 500 and then a NASCAR race on the same day. He is a race car driver, not a NASCAR driver.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I acknowledged the first point later in the thread. Also, if he tried to turn at the last second, he went the wrong way (not possible for a driver that skilled); those type of cars naturally turn the other way due to different sized wheels. More likely, the fishtail was a result of contact with the kid.
Don't agree with the second point. the kid was most aggressive towards the car before Tony.

If he truly didn't see the guy until the last second, no amount of driver skill is going to take over for instinct. If pulls the wheel hard to the left to avoid the guy, then he's going to fishtail that way. There's a lot of assumptions in this thread that because he's a professional driver, he has total and complete control over the car and that's just not right, especially with this type of racing.

 

[temery]

This is ironic considering you had to edit your post that said this...



Murder requires predetermined intent. So someone did say it, before editing it, and then there's this.

[QUOTE="James, post: 1031834, member: 254"]stewart totally hit the kid on purpose. it looked like he kinda sped up . mutliple cars passed the guy ward before he was hit

I can't tell Stewart's intent from that video. I also can't tell whether or not his actions were reckless.

It's obvious that Ward's actions were reckless. He got out of his car where he was relatively safe, and moved down to the middle of the race track where there were open wheeled vehicles traveling somewhere around 60 mph. That's reckless. He didn't deserve to die, but he put himself in that situation, not Tony Stewart. I'm not defending Tony Stewart, I'm refusing to accept anyone here knows his intent based on that video and just because he has a history of being a hot head. I'm pointing out the fact driver's are only supposed to exit their vehicle before safety personnel arrive if they are in danger. He wasn't in danger in that car, he put himself in danger with his reaction. Which, ironically and sadly, shows he was probably a hot-head too.[/QUOTE]


Hitting someone, even if on purpose, is a LONG way from trying to kill him. I stand by what I said, and you are only proving my point - too many people are trying to read too much into a post.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Hitting someone, even if on purpose, is a LONG way from trying to kill him. I stand by what I said, and you are only proving my point - too many people are trying to read too much into a post.

I don't think that "deliberately hitting someone with your car" is all that far from "trying to kill someone." I'd imagine that the survival rate of people struck by vehicles going that fast is awfully low.

 

[Dave Carlson]

Clearly you haven't watched a lot of racing or are not familiar with the skills and abilities of an experienced driver like Tony Stewart. While there is no way Tony intended to hit the young man, witness accounts and the circumstances of the incident suggest he purposely made an aggressive and negligent move that while not intended to hurt anyone, was the main factor in his death. These situations happen all the time and are predictable to the driver who dumps an opponent into the fence. While I've never seen one end like this I'll bet there have been close calls that we'll be hearing about.

Given his experience and talent level one could suggest Tony either knew, or should have anticipated the other driver would approach his car. If in fact he did what people are saying he made a tragic mistake despite the actions of the other driver. Trying to scare the other guy rather than avoiding him may have looked like a split second decision to you and me, but that's because we're not an elite driver in NASCAR and multiple other racing divisions. I'm not anti Tony Stewart in any way but suggesting anyone who might find him at fault here is unreasonable speaks to a degree of naivety (kindly phrased) on this subject.

Is it possible that Tony Stewart was "trying to scare" this guy? Yes. Is there any evidence that he was "trying to scare" this guy? Absolutely none. What you are describing as an "aggressice and negligent move" is objectively a a non-movement. Speculate all you want about the darkness of Tony Stewarts motives, but a rational person watching that video sees a guy walk into the middle of a dark racetrack and get hit by the back end of a car that turns too late to avoid hitting him. Everything about Stewart's failure to turn away sooner is a construction of your imagination. I weep for the fact that you have the franchise and could serve on a jury.

 

[temery]

I don't think that "deliberately hitting someone with your car" is all that far from "trying to kill someone." I'd imagine that the survival rate of people struck by vehicles going that fast is awfully low.

Again, you are reading way too much into a post.

 

[BlueMAB]

Hitting someone, even if on purpose, is a LONG way from trying to kill him. I stand by what I said, and you are only proving my point - too many people are trying to read too much into a post.

Hitting someone with an open wheeled race car traveling around 60-70mph is "a LONG way from trying to kill him."???

I can't believe you don't realize how silly that sounds.

That's like saying hitting someone in the head with a bat a couple times is "a LONG way from trying to kill him." Or tossing someone off the roof of a 3 story building is "a LONG way from trying to kill him."

If someone is arguing that he intentionally hit Warde, then they are arguing he was trying to kill him.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Spot on @WingU-Conn

Even if it was under caution and he's going 35mph, you don't " give someone a scare" at the speed. Do people realize how insane that is? 35-40 is just slightly slower than speeds on highways.

 

[temery]

If someone is arguing that he intentionally hit Warde, then they are arguing he was trying to kill him.

So you agree. You are interpreting a poster's intent, even though it's not what s/he said.

Progress.

Personally, I leave room that it was a brushback pitch. There is no room in my mind he tried to kill him. None whatsoever. And the idea anyone here has insisted he did try to kill him, is absurd.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I don't think NASCAR is going to investigate anything. I may me mistaken but NASCAR is not the governing body for Sprints so they don't have jurisdiction. Also Sprints are a completely different driving experience than stock cars. It's not unusual for a driver like Stewart to race different cars. Remember, he famously raced in the Indy 500 and then a NASCAR race on the same day. He is a race car driver, not a NASCAR driver.

True, I don't believe NASCAR was the governing body for that race, but I believe it was Kurt Busch, not Stewart, who ran both NASCAR and the Indy 500 on the same day. But yeah, it's not totally uncommon for these guys to take part in other series or motorsports.

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't have any idea how those cars operate or behave and am dead certain that anyone here who pretends to is talking out of their asses.

I have no idea what happened in that video aside from it just being horrific.

As a formerly obessesive motorsport fan I know enough to see that the stage has been set for a tragedy like this for quite some time.

Sprint Cars are the most dangerous race cars. The issues with the frames are not relevant but the issue of visibility is.

It's night time. Even with the best lights visibility is less perfect than in any vehicle. The victim is wearing black.

Sprint Cars have those big tube frame bars on the left and right side of where a windshield would normally be. Horizontal view is limited.

It's a dirt track. Clods of dirt collect on the helmet visor. Drivers use tear offs (multiple clear plastic "stickers" that are layered on top of eachother) protecbut they usually wait for the visor to get "full" before sripping it off for a fresh one.

The victim likely saw Stewart's car and moved closer to him. This always happens.

Nobody can drive a Sprint Car better than Tony Stewart. The idea that he lost control of the car under caution, is possible but not likely.

Either way, the conditions were set for a pretty bad accident and that is what happened.

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't think NASCAR is going to investigate anything. I may me mistaken but NASCAR is not the governing body for Sprints so they don't have jurisdiction. Also Sprints are a completely different driving experience than stock cars. It's not unusual for a driver like Stewart to race different cars. Remember, he famously raced in the Indy 500 and then a NASCAR race on the same day. He is a race car driver, not a NASCAR driver.

This race has zilch to do with NASCAR. NASCAR=Stock Car Racing

Sprint Cars are an open wheeled discipline. Totally different sanctioning body, and this race was at best tangentially professional.

Tony Stewart is also famous for being obnoxious and fat.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Spot on @WingU-Conn

Even if it was under caution and he's going 35mph, you don't " give someone a scare" at the speed. Do people realize how insane that is? 35-40 is just slightly slower than speeds on highways.

Remind me to never drive behind you on the highway.

 

[ZooCougar]

 

[intlzncster]

If he truly didn't see the guy until the last second, no amount of driver skill is going to take over for instinct. If pulls the wheel hard to the left to avoid the guy, then he's going to fishtail that way.

If he pulls to the left, then the back end will fishtail out to the right. The back end went out to the left, which means he would have pulled towards the right (towards the kid).

I think the car fishtailed because of contact with the kid, not because he's trying to avoid him or having lost control prior to contact.

 

[ZooCougar]

True, I don't believe NASCAR was the governing body for that race, but I believe it was Kurt Busch, not Stewart, who ran both NASCAR and the Indy 500 on the same day. But yeah, it's not totally uncommon for these guys to take part in other series or motorsports.

Tony Stewart has done the double. Last time he did it, he cramped up during the Coca Cola 600.

Robby Gordon has also done it and Kurt Busch has done it most recently.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Can't you be charged with manslaughter with zero intent? I am not a lawyer, so I have zero idea. The police have already backed off, so it wouldn't happen anyway.

You can be, but even in the case of involuntary manslaughter, you need to either a) have been committing a crime, or b) been negligent. Just accidentally killing a person through no fault of your own is not, in fact, a crime, I believe.