OT - Surface Pro 4 & Surface Book

[uconndoit]

Ah ok - I thought they might be in a showroom somewhere already. Anyway I don't have to decide until around the end of November - my father is coming to visit me in Bangkok in mid December and will bring me my new laptop.

 

[DogMania]

I'm in need of a new laptop and was considering a 2-in 1 device such as the Surface Book but the price is scary high and some early reviews seem to point to it being quite buggy.

The more I look into this, the more I'm thinking about getting a good laptop at a much cheaper price and also buying a new Android tablet to replace my Asus Transformer that bit the bullet during an update a number of months back.

It's now November and the Surface Book is out as well as the XPS 15. Did anyone pick up either of these bad boys or some other devices, 2-in-1 or just laptop?

If I'm going to shell out some significant coin, I want to ensure I make a good choice. The last laptop I bought was a HP that heats up like a hot plate and was a very disappointing device.

 

[junglehusky]

I preordered a Surface Book but with a .edu discount mine's not shipping out until at least next week. I'll post in this thread after I get it.

 

[jleves]

I'm in need of a new laptop and was considering a 2-in 1 device such as the Surface Book but the price is scary high and some early reviews seem to point to it being quite buggy.

The more I look into this, the more I'm thinking about getting a good laptop at a much cheaper price and also buying a new Android tablet to replace my Asus Transformer that bit the bullet during an update a number of months back.

It's now November and the Surface Book is out as well as the XPS 15. Did anyone pick up either of these bad boys or some other devices, 2-in-1 or just laptop?

If I'm going to shell out some significant coin, I want to ensure I make a good choice. The last laptop I bought was a HP that heats up like a hot plate and was a very disappointing device.

I've had a long running conversation with @intlzncster regarding this. If you really need a laptop, I wouldn't suggest any 2&1 like the Surface Pro. I think the Surface Book is really more of a laptop than a 2&1 as you would rarely use it as a tablet and the battery life as a tablet only is very poor. But for the price, it doesn't make any sense. Get a loaded XPS15 which is way more capable than the Book and decent tablet for less. I have the previous generation (haswell) xps 15 and it's a solid laptop. The skylake processor and new display will make it even better. It clocks in at about 4.4 lbs which is pretty light for everything it packs in. The XPS 13 is about 1lb lighter but I think it makes too many compromises to be a primary device.

I'm still using my Nexus 7 tablet as it does everything I need a tablet to do (reading, light browsing, music player). Any decent Android table should fit the bill.

I did order the Surface Pro as an in between device and cause I like toys. Like @junglehusky it doesn't ship until next week. I'll update when I get it.

 

[jleves]

I got my Surface Pro yesterday and I'm not overwhelmed. 50/50 that I end up returning it. The Touch keyboard is actually better than I thought it would be after all of Fishy's rants about it. But I hate the track pad. You have to put so much pressure to click that I often end up moving my finger and missing what I meant to click on. Otherwise, I'm just not sure how useful it is for the price. I knew it wasn't truly a laptop replacement, but I'm not sure it's good enough to be a temporary laptop stand in. And I can't imagine when how I would use it as a tablet. I'll have to play some more with the pen and see how long the battery lasts with my regular use. The resolution is actually too good for the size - things get really small. I don't use devices like that to watch a lot of media so one of the primary use cases (media consumption) is lost on me. I already have a great tablet for reading books (Nexus 7). Anyhow, it gets a few more days then it may go back. Just a lot of money for what is essentially just a toy for me. When I'm using it, I keep thinking I need a mouse - and that ends up defeating the purpose of carrying something that small around.

For @intlzncster a good article on best laptops for the holidays. Might help with your decision if you haven't made it (it is pretty close to my take on things).

 

[uchusky32]

Guys get Office and use One Note as iu virtual file cabinet. With the PE you can write in all Office applications and it will learn your hand writing. The isn't a better device for doing presentations. You can mark up your presentation. And with the wireless display it will be seem by your audience.

 

[jleves]

Guys get Office and use One Note as iu virtual file cabinet. With the PE you can write in all Office applications and it will learn your hand writing. The isn't a better device for doing presentations. You can mark up your presentation. And with the wireless display it will be seem by your audience.

Huh? Aside from not making any sense, what does this have anything to do with the topic? I think somebody may have celebrated the football win a bit much. Try again tomorrow.

 

[uchusky32]

Huh? Aside from not making any sense, what does this have anything to do with the topic? I think somebody may have celebrated the football win a bit much. Try again tomorrow.

I was editing it and you replied and an error message came up and I have been drinking. Been a long day of games. So I say ado and will attempt to make my point tomorrow!

 

[intlzncster]

Ah ok - I thought they might be in a showroom somewhere already. Anyway I don't have to decide until around the end of November - my father is coming to visit me in Bangkok in mid December and will bring me my new laptop.

I got my Surface Pro yesterday and I'm not overwhelmed. 50/50 that I end up returning it. The Touch keyboard is actually better than I thought it would be after all of Fishy's rants about it. But I hate the track pad. You have to put so much pressure to click that I often end up moving my finger and missing what I meant to click on. Otherwise, I'm just not sure how useful it is for the price. I knew it wasn't truly a laptop replacement, but I'm not sure it's good enough to be a temporary laptop stand in. And I can't imagine when how I would use it as a tablet. I'll have to play some more with the pen and see how long the battery lasts with my regular use. The resolution is actually too good for the size - things get really small. I don't use devices like that to watch a lot of media so one of the primary use cases (media consumption) is lost on me. I already have a great tablet for reading books (Nexus 7). Anyhow, it gets a few more days then it may go back. Just a lot of money for what is essentially just a toy for me. When I'm using it, I keep thinking I need a mouse - and that ends up defeating the purpose of carrying something that small around.

For @intlzncster a good article on best laptops for the holidays. Might help with your decision if you haven't made it (it is pretty close to my take on things).

Well, I checked out the XPS 13, 15, and Surface Book all together. XPS 15 is the best device for high power use. Screen is really amazing. Very high usability/power. Form factor not too bad, and you can lug it around without killing yourself.

For my personal needs (power w a very high amount of portability/travel), the ideal device would be the Surface Book. However, I don't think it's quite ready for prime time. Especially at the current price point. By 2nd or 3rd generation, I think they will have it ironed out, and I will probably pick one up then.

In the meantime, I'll by a mid range XPS 13 (again portability wins out), given they updated it this year with better internal specs and a fantastic screen and trackpad. The price point is workable, as you can get some discounts, especially this time of year. I used a mid range for a while in the store, and it does appear plenty powerful. I feel like it is one of those machines where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, in terms of power and usability. jmo of course.

Big hat tip to jleves for providing all the technical opinions on these machines. Thanks man

 

[Fishy]

I don't know if it's available on the 13", but if you get the non-touch variant of the 15", you can get a matte screen.

Two advantages...

1) For all the bluster, Windows doesn't really want you touching it. It is still very much a mouse-and-pointer operating system. And a finger-printed up glossy screen is a mess. Get a Wacom if you need it.

2) The matte screens are a little less garish with colors, but the big advantage is that they just do not reflect light. I'll work outside on the deck when the weather is nice - can't do that with a glossy screen in sunlight.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't know if it's available on the 13", but if you get the non-touch variant of the 15", you can get a matte screen.

Two advantages...

1) For all the bluster, Windows doesn't really want you touching it. It is still very much a mouse-and-pointer operating system. And a finger-printed up glossy screen is a mess. Get a Wacom if you need it.

2) The matte screens are a little less garish with colors, but the big advantage is that they just do not reflect light. I'll work outside on the deck when the weather is nice - can't do that with a glossy screen in sunlight.

Agree with all of that. I really don't like gloss screens at all for both reasons. I'm not even a huge fan of touch screens anyway, as using a mouse or trackpad is easier, faster, and more accurate...and I hate fingerprints on a screen in general. I tend to work in cafes a bunch, so the sunlight thing is important too. And I have a 7 yr old wacom pad, that while needing an upgrade, still works fine. I'm using a Winbook tw801 equipped with Win10 for internet atm, and frankly, it's a pain in the ass. I default to a bluetooth mouse whenever possible.

Fortunately, the XPS 13 does come with a non touch. Bonus is that it is $300 cheaper at same spec. Winning.

 

[Fishy]

Another tip - buy it direct from Microsoft so you avoid the globs of crap ware and stickers that most OEMs wreck their computers with.

 

[intlzncster]

Another tip - buy it direct from Microsoft so you avoid the globs of crap ware and stickers that most OEMs wreck their computers with.

Good tip, thanks.

Unfortunately, I just realized the QHD+ 3200x1800 display is only offered in touch. The non touch is FHD AG 1920x1080. Bummer. There is a significant difference between the two displays. Gotta go touch.

I could go with a matte screen protector, but that is kind of ghetto and feels slightly dirty. Plus it's a royal bitch to get it on neatly so that it look stock. (w perfect alignment, no kinks, no bubbles, no marks)

 

[jleves]

Good tip, thanks.

Unfortunately, I just realized the QHD+ 3200x1800 display is only offered in touch. The non touch is FHD AG 1920x1080. Bummer. There is a significant difference between the two displays. Gotta go touch.

I could go with a matte screen protector, but that is kind of ghetto and feels slightly dirty. Plus it's a royal bitch to get it on neatly so that it look stock. (w perfect alignment, no kinks, no bubbles, no marks)

There is a benefit to the lower res screen, which is still quite good - just a couple years ago premium devices still had crud sub 1080p displays. The lower res screen uses less power and your battery will last longer and you'll never have a problem with an app that doesn't scale with the high res screen. I get the new high res screen is really good - but a 1080p screen should be fine for 99% of your use. I doubt you'll miss the high res after a week. Just my opinion.

 

[intlzncster]

There is a benefit to the lower res screen, which is still quite good - just a couple years ago premium devices still had crud sub 1080p displays. The lower res screen uses less power and your battery will last longer and you'll never have a problem with an app that doesn't scale with the high res screen. I get the new high res screen is really good - but a 1080p screen should be fine for 99% of your use. I doubt you'll miss the high res after a week. Just my opinion.

Thanks again. Might go in that direction.

 

[uconndoit]

Yeah I've decided to go with the non-touch 13". Portability + battery life wins the day. With the saved money on the machine itself and not having to buy the Power Pack (the battery should last more than long enough), I'll get a nice new tablet to replace my ancient iPad 3.

The next question is when to buy. I guess I shouldn't expect deep discounts on a machine like the XPS 13 since it's in pretty high demand but can you guys help me decide when to pull the trigger?

 

[Phorcys]

 

[intlzncster]

while that's a lovely pie, I'm thinking you misfired. wrong thread.

 

[intlzncster]

Yeah I've decided to go with the non-touch 13". Portability + battery life wins the day. With the saved money on the machine itself and not having to buy the Power Pack (the battery should last more than long enough), I'll get a nice new tablet to replace my ancient iPad 3.

The next question is when to buy. I guess I shouldn't expect deep discounts on a machine like the XPS 13 since it's in pretty high demand but can you guys help me decide when to pull the trigger?

You gotta get creative. I doubt you'll get a direct discount as the 13 was just updated. But cyber Monday deals might come through to assuage some of that cost. jleves suggested trying Costco, as he's gotten good deals there in the past. I checked recently, and they had $300 off the 15, but nothing off the 13. And they don't offer customization.

I'm probably going to buy directly from Dell with a couple of things taken into account: If you get 12 mo financing, they give you $150 in rewards to use at their extensively stocked online shop. So for any gear I need in the future, I've got credits. They also give you a $50 to $100 off coupon that you can use on the laptop, depending on when you buy. Also, I think you can get a free drone too! Yes, that excites me.

Now, to further your savings, buy a bunch of dell giftcards online. You can use these to buy a laptop at the dell website. These giftcards can be purchased at something like a 7% discount to value. So you save 7% off whatever you buy. Free money.

Furthermore, if you are going to get Office, or upgrade to Windows Professional, don't do it through the Dell site. For Office, buy a copy of Office 2013 for something like $50 online. Office 2013 is about the same as 2016. So you don't lose out at all there, just save $100 on the price. Don't bother with Office 365, as who wants to pay a yearly subscription for something you can get pretty much the same for a one time fee. Obviously, if you have an educational license, go that route.

Now for Pro Windows, buy a copy of Windows 7 Pro or Win 8.1 Pro online for $35. You'll get the free upgrade to Windows 10, spend $15 less, and you won't have to have any crap ware installed on your PC that way.

I'll keep you updated if I think of anything else.

 

[Phorcys]

while that's a lovely pie, I'm thinking you misfired. wrong thread.

Yeah, I definitely misfired with that pathetic attempt at humor.

More than likely it was a subconscious admission that the topic is way over my head and I have nothing to add to the conversation. But I’ll bring the pizza!

 

[jleves]

You gotta get creative. I doubt you'll get a direct discount as the 13 was just updated. But cyber Monday deals might come through to assuage some of that cost. jleves suggested trying Costco, as he's gotten good deals there in the past. I checked recently, and they had $300 off the 15, but nothing off the 13. And they don't offer customization.

I'm probably going to buy directly from Dell with a couple of things taken into account: If you get 12 mo financing, they give you $150 in rewards to use at their extensively stocked online shop. So for any gear I need in the future, I've got credits. They also give you a $50 to $100 off coupon that you can use on the laptop, depending on when you buy. Also, I think you can get a free drone too! Yes, that excites me.

Now, to further your savings, buy a bunch of dell giftcards online. You can use these to buy a laptop at the dell website. These giftcards can be purchased at something like a 7% discount to value. So you save 7% off whatever you buy. Free money.

Furthermore, if you are going to get Office, or upgrade to Windows Professional, don't do it through the Dell site. For Office, buy a copy of Office 2013 for something like $50 online. Office 2013 is about the same as 2016. So you don't lose out at all there, just save $100 on the price. Don't bother with Office 365, as who wants to pay a yearly subscription for something you can get pretty much the same for a one time fee. Obviously, if you have an educational license, go that route.

Now for Pro Windows, buy a copy of Windows 7 Pro or Win 8.1 Pro online for $35. You'll get the free upgrade to Windows 10, spend $15 less, and you won't have to have any crap ware installed on your PC that way.

I'll keep you updated if I think of anything else.

Can you point me to a site where I can get Office 2013 or 2016 for $50? I need to get a copy for the Surface which I decided to keep.

As a weird side note major annoyance on the Surface Pro: Clicking the top of the pen automatically brings up OneNote, but only the free version. If you buy Office or Office365, it doesn't open up that version and there is no way to change it without installing some 3rd party product that let's you assign F keys. 95% of people who are going to buy a Surface Pro are going to load some version of Office and having the pen slaved to only the free version of OneNote is ridiculous. Hopefully they fix this soon.

 

[intlzncster]

Can you point me to a site where I can get Office 2013 or 2016 for $50? I need to get a copy for the Surface which I decided to keep.
.

There's a whole bunch on Bonanza. You can pay via Amazon or Paypal and you get their purchase protection. Here's an example:

http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Mic...2bit-64bit-for-Windows-1-PC-Licence/299075257

 

[Fishy]

Can you point me to a site where I can get Office 2013 or 2016 for $50? I need to get a copy for the Surface which I decided to keep.

I have an extra yearly sub for Office 365 Home.

It's one install on a computer and one on a tablet or smart phone. I already have a larger plan that covers the family and office, so you're welcome to it - just texted you the license key.

 

[Kitaman]

I am leaning towards the XPS 15 as well, given early reviews of both. Cheaper, for more power, and the screen is ridiculous. No bezel drops the size down, so it has a similar foot print to the Surface Book. It's a bit heavier, but not egregiously so, given it's got 2" more screen size (portability is a huge factor for me). Plus it has amazing battery life. I can get pen and design functionality with a separate tablet.

I purchased the Dell XPS 15 about a year ago with touch screen. CPU was tops last year ( i7-4702HQ), dedicated video card, SSD, etc...

The thing is a beast, runs anything I throw at it (however I'm not a photoshop, poser. video software user). The touch screen is responsive, however I habitually use a mouse and often forget its touch screen. It 'only' weighs 4 lbs. Highly recommend it. I'm sure the later models have upgraded components.

For my tablet needs I brought a Dragon tablet, cheap but excellent tablet:. Linky

For the Surface Book price you can get a desktop, tablet and laptop. Its attractive and all but I mishandle and misplace stuff too much, even consider spending that kind of loot. I do wonder what the cost to build is for Microsoft for those Surface automobiles.

 

[uconndoit]

You gotta get creative.
...
I'll keep you updated if I think of anything else.

Above and beyond! Thank you!!

 

[DogMania]

Well boys, I decided to buy the Surface Book the other day. My personal Laptop is pretty much cooked and I had been using my work one for some personal things. Work is going to VPN AlwaysOn which will block a lot of things, such as GMail and such, so I had to get something sooner than later.

Also, I got some recent cash, not a huge amount, but a nice chunk from my Dad's inheritance...yeah, it's been a tough year between this and the other news a dropped the other day. I've yet to search for any nearby bridges , not that people are all that worried, but I'm doing more than fine considering. So normally I would not fork over $2k for anything, but I felt since I needed a laptop and my Asus Android Transformer tablet bit the bullet a while ago, I'd get this 2-in-1 device which would likely be used much more as a laptop though sometimes as a tablet.

What impacted my decision to buy this bad boy is the physical attributes of the device in addition to its internal specs. The thing is build like a tank. It's just about all metal construction, sans the keys on the keyboard which I think are plastic. My past laptops seem to begin to physically breakdown, especially at the hinges and at the charging port. I looked at a lot of the laptops and all are built with just two hinges that hold the screen to the keyboard, which I'd fear would wear out after a couple years or so. The plastic construction on a lot of devices also tend to pull apart overtime as well, at least that's what has happened with some of my prior devices (HP, Toshiba to name a couple). The Surface Book has that magnetic, and I assume physical, locking method. The hinge is an accordion type deal that runs the entire span between the keyboard and screen. Just seems like the hardware will outlast the internal stuff, but since it has the top of the line processor, or close to it, Intel Core i7 and 8GB Memory...(Hopefully 8GB is enough for what I will ever do. To go to 16GB would have run me another $600 or so more, so no thanks!)...this device should take care of me for the foreseeable future for the type of things that I use the device for.

The device boots up super fast. Seems to perform real well, though it once froze up with the system running...fan was running even with the cover shut...where I had to cold boot it. BTW, I was freaking out since I couldn't seem to figure out how to cold boot it. I tried holding down the power button which didn't work for me, but a buddy of mine who had come over to watch the Pats game with me took over. He did the same thing I did, but held the power button down longer than I did and it finally booted. Yeah, that has me a tad concerned considering how much this device cost me. I guess a $2K laptop can crap out just as much as a $300 one.

Anyhow, I pulled the trigger and so far I'm happy with my new toy.

 

[uconndoit]

Ok - potential change of plans...

Anybody want to convince me NOT to buy the Lenovo Yoga 900 instead of the XPS 13?

Putting aside their fundamental difference (convertible versus laptop only) and the fact that the Yoga has about 9 hours of battery at best...can anyone give me a good reason not to buy the Yoga 900?

 

[junglehusky]

OK I got the base Surface Book, have had it for the better part of a week now. I'm used to using pens from my previous computer, a Lenovo X200 convertible tablet PC running Windows 7. (The replacement battery on that boy was on its last legs and rather than replace the battery I figured it was time to leap into the future after avoiding windows 8 machines for a few years.) I might be slightly biased in that I am one of the people who prefers using a pen to typing, I think in college and grad school lectures taking notes by hand helped me remember things better although probably typing is faster for most people. So instead of a notebook or folder of notes I have OneNote. I don't usually convert my handwriting to text, on my older Lenovo that didn't always perform that well. Might try it on the new machine to see if it's improved. But even if your handriting isn't digitized, it's still keyword searchable in OneNote which I find useful.

But anyway - about the Surface Book. The magnesium frame does kinda scream MacBook but the display form factor at 4:3 instead of 16:9 is somewhat distinctive. It's almost big enough to use two-page view for reading a document, but where I really like it is to ink/annotate a PDF in portrait mode. Here it ouperforms my older machine - the pen is responsive, smooth and the pressure sensitivity is nice. A PDF inking program called Drawboard was included which I've been using. There is also a painting type of program where you can mix oils and stuff, but probably one of the target markets for this technology is artists using Illustrator. I'm not artistic enough to learn/buy Illustrator, but a couple of the reviews did have artists try it out and they sounded positive about it. This technology has progressed - if you think it's the same as drawing with your finger on an iPad, it's not, it's much more precise and responsive, although I recognize not everybody places the same value on that (and the next iPad is also going to have an improved pen despite Steve Job's wishes).

Display looks great, I've been leaving it on auto brightness but if you pump up the brightness adjustment it gets REALLY bright. I have had an issue a couple times with the display driver hanging using multiple tabs on firefox, I haven't noticed a consistent cause for that yet. Hopefully it'll go away with an update.

Typing is fine, keys are spaced well. The trackpad is large, which I like, and while I have noticed some press issues that @jleves mentioned, it happens less at the bottom of the trackpad... and you can use another finger or your other hand to press/click somewhere else on the trackpad (and you might be used to doing this if you previously used a trackpad with buttons at the bottom). I have gotten in the habit of using the touch screen to scroll especially during web browsing. But I'm keeping my mouse for use with the second monitor I plug into at work.

Sound is pretty good, you even get nice left-right separation. Boot up is fast! I didn't spring for the graphics upgrade, not being a gamer. Still, everything is responsive and quick-loading, I don't think I'll have any awkward freeze-ups running power point. I haven't thrown anything too intense at the processor, maybe later I'll try running some intense tracking code in MATLAB and see how it does compared to some of our workstations...

As far as battery life - it's fine as long as you keep the screen attached to the base. If you detach and go tablet mode, the battery in the screen should last long enough for a meeting (even a long meeting like the ones I'm used to... but that's neither here nor there) but it probably won't get you through a full afternoon. To take advantage of both batteries, you can detach, flip it around, reattach to the base and fold it down; I anticipate doing this for conferences and that sort of thing. In tablet mode, the form factor is definitely not one where you'll be holding it in your hand walking down the street like a phablet. That's not what it's for. They call it a digital clipboard and that's how people will use it, the same way you tuck a clipboard under your arm and then (if you're standing) hold it in your left hand with the bottom edge braced against your sternum or in the crook of your elbow so you can write with your right if you're right-handed. Sitting at a table or with it on your lap is fine in either laptop or tablet detached mode. I was worried about the screen wobbling but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

So maybe it comes down to this - do you want to be a pen user or need a large touch screen, or are you happy using Windows the way it was in the XP thru Windows 7 era? Do you want a premium machine with the latest tech? It's not a cheap computer, that's for sure. If you wait a year or so, it's possible other manufacturers will have similar convertible or detachable Windows 10 machines with similar performance, maybe a little bit more affordable, depending on the specs. I don't see this as being something for college students, for example - probably a Surface Pro or something from Dell or Acer would be the target here. On the other hand, most people these days spend more time on the computer than they do in the car, for example. So an argument can be made for forking over a few hundred more for a premium product if you do want the extra functionality.

 

[intlzncster]

OK I got the base Surface Book, have had it for the better part of a week now. I'm used to using pens from my previous computer, a Lenovo X200 convertible tablet PC running Windows 7. (The replacement battery on that boy was on its last legs and rather than replace the battery I figured it was time to leap into the future after avoiding windows 8 machines for a few years.) I might be slightly biased in that I am one of the people who prefers using a pen to typing, I think in college and grad school lectures taking notes by hand helped me remember things better although probably typing is faster for most people. So instead of a notebook or folder of notes I have OneNote. I don't usually convert my handwriting to text, on my older Lenovo that didn't always perform that well. Might try it on the new machine to see if it's improved. But even if your handriting isn't digitized, it's still keyword searchable in OneNote which I find useful.

But anyway - about the Surface Book. The magnesium frame does kinda scream MacBook but the display form factor at 4:3 instead of 16:9 is somewhat distinctive. It's almost big enough to use two-page view for reading a document, but where I really like it is to ink/annotate a PDF in portrait mode. Here it ouperforms my older machine - the pen is responsive, smooth and the pressure sensitivity is nice. A PDF inking program called Drawboard was included which I've been using. There is also a painting type of program where you can mix oils and stuff, but probably one of the target markets for this technology is artists using Illustrator. I'm not artistic enough to learn/buy Illustrator, but a couple of the reviews did have artists try it out and they sounded positive about it. This technology has progressed - if you think it's the same as drawing with your finger on an iPad, it's not, it's much more precise and responsive, although I recognize not everybody places the same value on that (and the next iPad is also going to have an improved pen despite Steve Job's wishes).

Display looks great, I've been leaving it on auto brightness but if you pump up the brightness adjustment it gets REALLY bright. I have had an issue a couple times with the display driver hanging using multiple tabs on firefox, I haven't noticed a consistent cause for that yet. Hopefully it'll go away with an update.

Typing is fine, keys are spaced well. The trackpad is large, which I like, and while I have noticed some press issues that @jleves mentioned, it happens less at the bottom of the trackpad... and you can use another finger or your other hand to press/click somewhere else on the trackpad (and you might be used to doing this if you previously used a trackpad with buttons at the bottom). I have gotten in the habit of using the touch screen to scroll especially during web browsing. But I'm keeping my mouse for use with the second monitor I plug into at work.

Sound is pretty good, you even get nice left-right separation. Boot up is fast! I didn't spring for the graphics upgrade, not being a gamer. Still, everything is responsive and quick-loading, I don't think I'll have any awkward freeze-ups running power point. I haven't thrown anything too intense at the processor, maybe later I'll try running some intense tracking code in MATLAB and see how it does compared to some of our workstations...

As far as battery life - it's fine as long as you keep the screen attached to the base. If you detach and go tablet mode, the battery in the screen should last long enough for a meeting (even a long meeting like the ones I'm used to... but that's neither here nor there) but it probably won't get you through a full afternoon. To take advantage of both batteries, you can detach, flip it around, reattach to the base and fold it down; I anticipate doing this for conferences and that sort of thing. In tablet mode, the form factor is definitely not one where you'll be holding it in your hand walking down the street like a phablet. That's not what it's for. They call it a digital clipboard and that's how people will use it, the same way you tuck a clipboard under your arm and then (if you're standing) hold it in your left hand with the bottom edge braced against your sternum or in the crook of your elbow so you can write with your right if you're right-handed. Sitting at a table or with it on your lap is fine in either laptop or tablet detached mode. I was worried about the screen wobbling but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

So maybe it comes down to this - do you want to be a pen user or need a large touch screen, or are you happy using Windows the way it was in the XP thru Windows 7 era? Do you want a premium machine with the latest tech? It's not a cheap computer, that's for sure. If you wait a year or so, it's possible other manufacturers will have similar convertible or detachable Windows 10 machines with similar performance, maybe a little bit more affordable, depending on the specs. I don't see this as being something for college students, for example - probably a Surface Pro or something from Dell or Acer would be the target here. On the other hand, most people these days spend more time on the computer than they do in the car, for example. So an argument can be made for forking over a few hundred more for a premium product if you do want the extra functionality.

Thanks for the review.

 

[DogMania]

OK I got the base Surface Book, have had it for the better part of a week now. I'm used to using pens from my previous computer, a Lenovo X200 convertible tablet PC running Windows 7. (The replacement battery on that boy was on its last legs and rather than replace the battery I figured it was time to leap into the future after avoiding windows 8 machines for a few years.) I might be slightly biased in that I am one of the people who prefers using a pen to typing, I think in college and grad school lectures taking notes by hand helped me remember things better although probably typing is faster for most people. So instead of a notebook or folder of notes I have OneNote. I don't usually convert my handwriting to text, on my older Lenovo that didn't always perform that well. Might try it on the new machine to see if it's improved. But even if your handriting isn't digitized, it's still keyword searchable in OneNote which I find useful.

But anyway - about the Surface Book. The magnesium frame does kinda scream MacBook but the display form factor at 4:3 instead of 16:9 is somewhat distinctive. It's almost big enough to use two-page view for reading a document, but where I really like it is to ink/annotate a PDF in portrait mode. Here it ouperforms my older machine - the pen is responsive, smooth and the pressure sensitivity is nice. A PDF inking program called Drawboard was included which I've been using. There is also a painting type of program where you can mix oils and stuff, but probably one of the target markets for this technology is artists using Illustrator. I'm not artistic enough to learn/buy Illustrator, but a couple of the reviews did have artists try it out and they sounded positive about it. This technology has progressed - if you think it's the same as drawing with your finger on an iPad, it's not, it's much more precise and responsive, although I recognize not everybody places the same value on that (and the next iPad is also going to have an improved pen despite Steve Job's wishes).

Display looks great, I've been leaving it on auto brightness but if you pump up the brightness adjustment it gets REALLY bright. I have had an issue a couple times with the display driver hanging using multiple tabs on firefox, I haven't noticed a consistent cause for that yet. Hopefully it'll go away with an update.

Typing is fine, keys are spaced well. The trackpad is large, which I like, and while I have noticed some press issues that @jleves mentioned, it happens less at the bottom of the trackpad... and you can use another finger or your other hand to press/click somewhere else on the trackpad (and you might be used to doing this if you previously used a trackpad with buttons at the bottom). I have gotten in the habit of using the touch screen to scroll especially during web browsing. But I'm keeping my mouse for use with the second monitor I plug into at work.

Sound is pretty good, you even get nice left-right separation. Boot up is fast! I didn't spring for the graphics upgrade, not being a gamer. Still, everything is responsive and quick-loading, I don't think I'll have any awkward freeze-ups running power point. I haven't thrown anything too intense at the processor, maybe later I'll try running some intense tracking code in MATLAB and see how it does compared to some of our workstations...

As far as battery life - it's fine as long as you keep the screen attached to the base. If you detach and go tablet mode, the battery in the screen should last long enough for a meeting (even a long meeting like the ones I'm used to... but that's neither here nor there) but it probably won't get you through a full afternoon. To take advantage of both batteries, you can detach, flip it around, reattach to the base and fold it down; I anticipate doing this for conferences and that sort of thing. In tablet mode, the form factor is definitely not one where you'll be holding it in your hand walking down the street like a phablet. That's not what it's for. They call it a digital clipboard and that's how people will use it, the same way you tuck a clipboard under your arm and then (if you're standing) hold it in your left hand with the bottom edge braced against your sternum or in the crook of your elbow so you can write with your right if you're right-handed. Sitting at a table or with it on your lap is fine in either laptop or tablet detached mode. I was worried about the screen wobbling but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

So maybe it comes down to this - do you want to be a pen user or need a large touch screen, or are you happy using Windows the way it was in the XP thru Windows 7 era? Do you want a premium machine with the latest tech? It's not a cheap computer, that's for sure. If you wait a year or so, it's possible other manufacturers will have similar convertible or detachable Windows 10 machines with similar performance, maybe a little bit more affordable, depending on the specs. I don't see this as being something for college students, for example - probably a Surface Pro or something from Dell or Acer would be the target here. On the other hand, most people these days spend more time on the computer than they do in the car, for example. So an argument can be made for forking over a few hundred more for a premium product if you do want the extra functionality.

Well you convinced me. I'm going to buy one...Oh, I already did. Thanks for the review, junglehusky. Great job.