OT - Surface Pro 4 & Surface Book

[intlzncster]

I don't think 99.9% of the people need to sweat the graphics card. If you're that worried about it, buy somethi

I assume for 3D modeling and rendering would qualify as the .1%? Just checking.

4) The hinge is odd.

What didn't you like about it?

5) It's not really a laptop - you can't balance it on your lap and type. The screen is too heavy and topples the thing over backwards.

Interesting. I tried it out and didn't have any problems with this.

6) The pen lags. I lost three pens from the original Surface - I'd expect to do the same with this.

I could see a not very noticeable lag. About the same as the Surface Pro 4. Better than the Surface 3. Which tablets are better in this regard?

The one thing about the MS Pen is that while relatively ergonomic, it's not customizeable! That's completely unacceptable for most people who use a stylus regularly. On the other hand, the pressure sensitivity is pretty damn good on this device.

I'm thinking of just buying a separate tablet. Won't sacrifice in the PC dept and get better battery life this way.

These convertibles always end up in the same place - not a great laptop and not a great tablet. Dell just came out with a new 15" XPS - I suspect I'll replace my office computer with one and then wait to see what the second-generation Surface Book looks like.

I am leaning towards the XPS 15 as well, given early reviews of both. Cheaper, for more power, and the screen is ridiculous. No bezel drops the size down, so it has a similar foot print to the Surface Book. It's a bit heavier, but not egregiously so, given it's got 2" more screen size (portability is a huge factor for me). Plus it has amazing battery life. I can get pen and design functionality with a separate tablet.

 

[jleves]

I am leaning towards the XPS 15 as well, given early reviews of both. Cheaper, for more power, and the screen is ridiculous. No bezel drops the size down, so it has a similar foot print to the Surface Book. It's a bit heavier, but not egregiously so, given it's got 2" more screen size (portability is a huge factor for me). Plus it has amazing battery life. I can get pen and design functionality with a separate tablet.

Wish I had suggested this originally

 

[intlzncster]

Wish I had suggested this originally

Hahaha. It was partially your reco that led me to it. I've only just started researching the new XPS 15 though. That was kind of the tipping point.

 

[uconndoit]

I'm on the fence between the xps 13 and 15 at this point. I have an xps 15 from 2010 which I've upgraded to ssd and added a second hdd in the DVD drive bay with a caddy. I also upgraded the keyboard to backlit. Still serves me well in terms of performance but the battery only lasts about 2-3 hours and it prob weighs about 7 pounds so it rarely leaves my desk. I could keep that one as my desktop replacement and grab an xps 13 for my portable unit but if the 15 is light enough then I might as well consolidate into just the one new xps 15. Can anyone who has hands on experience convince me that the xps 15 will be a delight to carry around?

 

[intlzncster]

I'm on the fence between the xps 13 and 15 at this point. I have an xps 15 from 2010 which I've upgraded to ssd and added a second hdd in the DVD drive bay with a caddy. I also upgraded the keyboard to backlit. Still serves me well in terms of performance but the battery only lasts about 2-3 hours and it prob weighs about 7 pounds so it rarely leaves my desk. I could keep that one as my desktop replacement and grab an xps 13 for my portable unit but if the 15 is light enough then I might as well consolidate into just the one new xps 15. Can anyone who has hands on experience convince me that the xps 15 will be a delight to carry around?

Well, the new XPS 15 comes out November 2nd, so I don't think too many people have hands on yet! It's the new one you want. I've been looking to test one, but haven't found a demo yet.

 

[uconndoit]

Ah ok - I thought they might be in a showroom somewhere already. Anyway I don't have to decide until around the end of November - my father is coming to visit me in Bangkok in mid December and will bring me my new laptop.

 

[DogMania]

I'm in need of a new laptop and was considering a 2-in 1 device such as the Surface Book but the price is scary high and some early reviews seem to point to it being quite buggy.

The more I look into this, the more I'm thinking about getting a good laptop at a much cheaper price and also buying a new Android tablet to replace my Asus Transformer that bit the bullet during an update a number of months back.

It's now November and the Surface Book is out as well as the XPS 15. Did anyone pick up either of these bad boys or some other devices, 2-in-1 or just laptop?

If I'm going to shell out some significant coin, I want to ensure I make a good choice. The last laptop I bought was a HP that heats up like a hot plate and was a very disappointing device.

 

[junglehusky]

I preordered a Surface Book but with a .edu discount mine's not shipping out until at least next week. I'll post in this thread after I get it.

 

[jleves]

I'm in need of a new laptop and was considering a 2-in 1 device such as the Surface Book but the price is scary high and some early reviews seem to point to it being quite buggy.

The more I look into this, the more I'm thinking about getting a good laptop at a much cheaper price and also buying a new Android tablet to replace my Asus Transformer that bit the bullet during an update a number of months back.

It's now November and the Surface Book is out as well as the XPS 15. Did anyone pick up either of these bad boys or some other devices, 2-in-1 or just laptop?

If I'm going to shell out some significant coin, I want to ensure I make a good choice. The last laptop I bought was a HP that heats up like a hot plate and was a very disappointing device.

I've had a long running conversation with @intlzncster regarding this. If you really need a laptop, I wouldn't suggest any 2&1 like the Surface Pro. I think the Surface Book is really more of a laptop than a 2&1 as you would rarely use it as a tablet and the battery life as a tablet only is very poor. But for the price, it doesn't make any sense. Get a loaded XPS15 which is way more capable than the Book and decent tablet for less. I have the previous generation (haswell) xps 15 and it's a solid laptop. The skylake processor and new display will make it even better. It clocks in at about 4.4 lbs which is pretty light for everything it packs in. The XPS 13 is about 1lb lighter but I think it makes too many compromises to be a primary device.

I'm still using my Nexus 7 tablet as it does everything I need a tablet to do (reading, light browsing, music player). Any decent Android table should fit the bill.

I did order the Surface Pro as an in between device and cause I like toys. Like @junglehusky it doesn't ship until next week. I'll update when I get it.

 

[jleves]

I got my Surface Pro yesterday and I'm not overwhelmed. 50/50 that I end up returning it. The Touch keyboard is actually better than I thought it would be after all of Fishy's rants about it. But I hate the track pad. You have to put so much pressure to click that I often end up moving my finger and missing what I meant to click on. Otherwise, I'm just not sure how useful it is for the price. I knew it wasn't truly a laptop replacement, but I'm not sure it's good enough to be a temporary laptop stand in. And I can't imagine when how I would use it as a tablet. I'll have to play some more with the pen and see how long the battery lasts with my regular use. The resolution is actually too good for the size - things get really small. I don't use devices like that to watch a lot of media so one of the primary use cases (media consumption) is lost on me. I already have a great tablet for reading books (Nexus 7). Anyhow, it gets a few more days then it may go back. Just a lot of money for what is essentially just a toy for me. When I'm using it, I keep thinking I need a mouse - and that ends up defeating the purpose of carrying something that small around.

For @intlzncster a good article on best laptops for the holidays. Might help with your decision if you haven't made it (it is pretty close to my take on things).

 

[uchusky32]

Guys get Office and use One Note as iu virtual file cabinet. With the PE you can write in all Office applications and it will learn your hand writing. The isn't a better device for doing presentations. You can mark up your presentation. And with the wireless display it will be seem by your audience.

 

[jleves]

Guys get Office and use One Note as iu virtual file cabinet. With the PE you can write in all Office applications and it will learn your hand writing. The isn't a better device for doing presentations. You can mark up your presentation. And with the wireless display it will be seem by your audience.

Huh? Aside from not making any sense, what does this have anything to do with the topic? I think somebody may have celebrated the football win a bit much. Try again tomorrow.

 

[uchusky32]

Huh? Aside from not making any sense, what does this have anything to do with the topic? I think somebody may have celebrated the football win a bit much. Try again tomorrow.

I was editing it and you replied and an error message came up and I have been drinking. Been a long day of games. So I say ado and will attempt to make my point tomorrow!

 

[intlzncster]

Ah ok - I thought they might be in a showroom somewhere already. Anyway I don't have to decide until around the end of November - my father is coming to visit me in Bangkok in mid December and will bring me my new laptop.

I got my Surface Pro yesterday and I'm not overwhelmed. 50/50 that I end up returning it. The Touch keyboard is actually better than I thought it would be after all of Fishy's rants about it. But I hate the track pad. You have to put so much pressure to click that I often end up moving my finger and missing what I meant to click on. Otherwise, I'm just not sure how useful it is for the price. I knew it wasn't truly a laptop replacement, but I'm not sure it's good enough to be a temporary laptop stand in. And I can't imagine when how I would use it as a tablet. I'll have to play some more with the pen and see how long the battery lasts with my regular use. The resolution is actually too good for the size - things get really small. I don't use devices like that to watch a lot of media so one of the primary use cases (media consumption) is lost on me. I already have a great tablet for reading books (Nexus 7). Anyhow, it gets a few more days then it may go back. Just a lot of money for what is essentially just a toy for me. When I'm using it, I keep thinking I need a mouse - and that ends up defeating the purpose of carrying something that small around.

For @intlzncster a good article on best laptops for the holidays. Might help with your decision if you haven't made it (it is pretty close to my take on things).

Well, I checked out the XPS 13, 15, and Surface Book all together. XPS 15 is the best device for high power use. Screen is really amazing. Very high usability/power. Form factor not too bad, and you can lug it around without killing yourself.

For my personal needs (power w a very high amount of portability/travel), the ideal device would be the Surface Book. However, I don't think it's quite ready for prime time. Especially at the current price point. By 2nd or 3rd generation, I think they will have it ironed out, and I will probably pick one up then.

In the meantime, I'll by a mid range XPS 13 (again portability wins out), given they updated it this year with better internal specs and a fantastic screen and trackpad. The price point is workable, as you can get some discounts, especially this time of year. I used a mid range for a while in the store, and it does appear plenty powerful. I feel like it is one of those machines where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, in terms of power and usability. jmo of course.

Big hat tip to jleves for providing all the technical opinions on these machines. Thanks man

 

[Fishy]

I don't know if it's available on the 13", but if you get the non-touch variant of the 15", you can get a matte screen.

Two advantages...

1) For all the bluster, Windows doesn't really want you touching it. It is still very much a mouse-and-pointer operating system. And a finger-printed up glossy screen is a mess. Get a Wacom if you need it.

2) The matte screens are a little less garish with colors, but the big advantage is that they just do not reflect light. I'll work outside on the deck when the weather is nice - can't do that with a glossy screen in sunlight.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't know if it's available on the 13", but if you get the non-touch variant of the 15", you can get a matte screen.

Two advantages...

1) For all the bluster, Windows doesn't really want you touching it. It is still very much a mouse-and-pointer operating system. And a finger-printed up glossy screen is a mess. Get a Wacom if you need it.

2) The matte screens are a little less garish with colors, but the big advantage is that they just do not reflect light. I'll work outside on the deck when the weather is nice - can't do that with a glossy screen in sunlight.

Agree with all of that. I really don't like gloss screens at all for both reasons. I'm not even a huge fan of touch screens anyway, as using a mouse or trackpad is easier, faster, and more accurate...and I hate fingerprints on a screen in general. I tend to work in cafes a bunch, so the sunlight thing is important too. And I have a 7 yr old wacom pad, that while needing an upgrade, still works fine. I'm using a Winbook tw801 equipped with Win10 for internet atm, and frankly, it's a pain in the ass. I default to a bluetooth mouse whenever possible.

Fortunately, the XPS 13 does come with a non touch. Bonus is that it is $300 cheaper at same spec. Winning.

 

[Fishy]

Another tip - buy it direct from Microsoft so you avoid the globs of crap ware and stickers that most OEMs wreck their computers with.

 

[intlzncster]

Another tip - buy it direct from Microsoft so you avoid the globs of crap ware and stickers that most OEMs wreck their computers with.

Good tip, thanks.

Unfortunately, I just realized the QHD+ 3200x1800 display is only offered in touch. The non touch is FHD AG 1920x1080. Bummer. There is a significant difference between the two displays. Gotta go touch.

I could go with a matte screen protector, but that is kind of ghetto and feels slightly dirty. Plus it's a royal bitch to get it on neatly so that it look stock. (w perfect alignment, no kinks, no bubbles, no marks)

 

[jleves]

Good tip, thanks.

Unfortunately, I just realized the QHD+ 3200x1800 display is only offered in touch. The non touch is FHD AG 1920x1080. Bummer. There is a significant difference between the two displays. Gotta go touch.

I could go with a matte screen protector, but that is kind of ghetto and feels slightly dirty. Plus it's a royal bitch to get it on neatly so that it look stock. (w perfect alignment, no kinks, no bubbles, no marks)

There is a benefit to the lower res screen, which is still quite good - just a couple years ago premium devices still had crud sub 1080p displays. The lower res screen uses less power and your battery will last longer and you'll never have a problem with an app that doesn't scale with the high res screen. I get the new high res screen is really good - but a 1080p screen should be fine for 99% of your use. I doubt you'll miss the high res after a week. Just my opinion.

 

[intlzncster]

There is a benefit to the lower res screen, which is still quite good - just a couple years ago premium devices still had crud sub 1080p displays. The lower res screen uses less power and your battery will last longer and you'll never have a problem with an app that doesn't scale with the high res screen. I get the new high res screen is really good - but a 1080p screen should be fine for 99% of your use. I doubt you'll miss the high res after a week. Just my opinion.

Thanks again. Might go in that direction.

 

[uconndoit]

Yeah I've decided to go with the non-touch 13". Portability + battery life wins the day. With the saved money on the machine itself and not having to buy the Power Pack (the battery should last more than long enough), I'll get a nice new tablet to replace my ancient iPad 3.

The next question is when to buy. I guess I shouldn't expect deep discounts on a machine like the XPS 13 since it's in pretty high demand but can you guys help me decide when to pull the trigger?

 

[Phorcys]

 

[intlzncster]

while that's a lovely pie, I'm thinking you misfired. wrong thread.

 

[intlzncster]

Yeah I've decided to go with the non-touch 13". Portability + battery life wins the day. With the saved money on the machine itself and not having to buy the Power Pack (the battery should last more than long enough), I'll get a nice new tablet to replace my ancient iPad 3.

The next question is when to buy. I guess I shouldn't expect deep discounts on a machine like the XPS 13 since it's in pretty high demand but can you guys help me decide when to pull the trigger?

You gotta get creative. I doubt you'll get a direct discount as the 13 was just updated. But cyber Monday deals might come through to assuage some of that cost. jleves suggested trying Costco, as he's gotten good deals there in the past. I checked recently, and they had $300 off the 15, but nothing off the 13. And they don't offer customization.

I'm probably going to buy directly from Dell with a couple of things taken into account: If you get 12 mo financing, they give you $150 in rewards to use at their extensively stocked online shop. So for any gear I need in the future, I've got credits. They also give you a $50 to $100 off coupon that you can use on the laptop, depending on when you buy. Also, I think you can get a free drone too! Yes, that excites me.

Now, to further your savings, buy a bunch of dell giftcards online. You can use these to buy a laptop at the dell website. These giftcards can be purchased at something like a 7% discount to value. So you save 7% off whatever you buy. Free money.

Furthermore, if you are going to get Office, or upgrade to Windows Professional, don't do it through the Dell site. For Office, buy a copy of Office 2013 for something like $50 online. Office 2013 is about the same as 2016. So you don't lose out at all there, just save $100 on the price. Don't bother with Office 365, as who wants to pay a yearly subscription for something you can get pretty much the same for a one time fee. Obviously, if you have an educational license, go that route.

Now for Pro Windows, buy a copy of Windows 7 Pro or Win 8.1 Pro online for $35. You'll get the free upgrade to Windows 10, spend $15 less, and you won't have to have any crap ware installed on your PC that way.

I'll keep you updated if I think of anything else.

 

[Phorcys]

while that's a lovely pie, I'm thinking you misfired. wrong thread.

Yeah, I definitely misfired with that pathetic attempt at humor.

More than likely it was a subconscious admission that the topic is way over my head and I have nothing to add to the conversation. But I’ll bring the pizza!