OT: Stanley Cup Finals | Page 2 | The Boneyard

OT: Stanley Cup Finals

Most entertaining part of the game was Cam Neely's reaction to the 2nd goal and the non-call.



This should be a gif so everyone can use it to express their frustration when they're frustrated with their favorite team. It could have been used a lot on the Yard the last 3 years!
 
HooperScooper said:
Most entertaining part of the game was Cam Neely's reaction to the 2nd goal and the non-call.



This should be a gif so everyone can use it to express their frustration when they're frustrated with their favorite team. It could have been used a lot on the Yard the last 3 years!
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That was probably my favorite moment of the night. Bitter old Whaler fan!
 
Pgh2Storrs said:
With good health to finish out his career, Sid should end up in the same conversation with Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr. He’s done it all, multiple times, and been the best player of his generation at a time when the league is probably at its peak in terms of skill. His numbers won’t look like 99 or 66, but he also has to play against ungodly goaltending that those guys largely didn’t see until Roy/Marty/Hasek ushered in a new generation.

In any event, I don’t mean to derail the convo. Sunday should be a fun one. I’ll be interested to see how much Boston has left in the tank, as they looked gassed last night. STL’s physicality has been impressive
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He's not as good as those three, not relative to his peers. Not close really. I recall watching a young Gretzky and he could just skate and skate and nobody could take the puck from him. In an era when the defense could do some nasty things. Plus, no two line passes back then.

Gretzky lead the NHL in points 11 times. Mario 6 times, Howe 6 times. How about +/-? Orr lead that 6 times, Gretzky 5. Oddly enough David Krejci is tied for 3rd at 2 times. Assists? Gretzky did it 16 times! Next most is Orr, at 5 times. That's astonishing for a defenseman. Mario tied for 3rd at 3 times. Goals is lead by his contemporary, Ovetchkin, at 8 times. Followed by Bobby Hull, then Gretzky and Howe. Crosby isn't on any of these lists.

He's really good. But he's not really better than several other guys in this era. He doesn't stand out.
 
HuskyHawk said:
He's not as good as those three, not relative to his peers. Not close really. I recall watching a young Gretzky and he could just skate and skate and nobody could take the puck from him. In an era when the defense could do some nasty things. Plus, no two line passes back then.

Gretzky lead the NHL in points 11 times. Mario 6 times, Howe 6 times. How about +/-? Orr lead that 6 times, Gretzky 5. Oddly enough David Krejci is tied for 3rd at 2 times. Assists? Gretzky did it 16 times! Next most is Orr, at 5 times. That's astonishing for a defenseman. Mario tied for 3rd at 3 times. Goals is lead by his contemporary, Ovetchkin, at 8 times. Followed by Bobby Hull, then Gretzky and Howe. Crosby isn't on any of these lists.

He's really good. But he's not really better than several other guys in this era. He doesn't stand out.
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I'd agree. Gretzky is like Michael Jordan: in a league of his own. Nobody comes close. Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Hull, Richard, Messier, Francis, Jagr, Bourque, Crosby etc... all HOF players but nowhere near as good or dominant as Oilers' Gretzky. Oilers Gretzky was by far and away the best hockey player to have ever played.
 
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Dooley said:
I'd agree. Gretzky is like Michael Jordan: in a league of his own. Nobody comes close. Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Hull, Richard, Messier, Francis, Jagr, Bourque, Crosby etc... all HOF players but nowhere near as good or dominant as Oilers' Gretzky. Oilers Gretzky was by far and away the best hockey player to have ever played.
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It would appear that way but my Canadian buddy who knows everything about hockey has always stood by Super Mario being better than Gretzky. Gretzky has a million MVP's and more Stanley Cups but Mario was freaking awesome, most points per game and highest goals per game career average.
 
Dooley said:
I'd agree. Gretzky is like Michael Jordan: in a league of his own. Nobody comes close. Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Hull, Richard, Messier, Francis, Jagr, Bourque, Crosby etc... all HOF players but nowhere near as good or dominant as Oilers' Gretzky. Oilers Gretzky was by far and away the best hockey player to have ever played.
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While it’s hard to argue with Gretzky being the best, I think Orr, Howe and Lemieux are definitely in a class above the others you have listed, with Orr arguably being in a class above those two...
 
Please don't say the Blues are a bunch of thugs because it's not true. They are actually well coached and that's the only way they can hang with the Bruins by being physical, they've done well to be in this position it's impressive. Bruins will need to quite the Blues crowd early again because if they let them score early it will be crazy there. Game 6 will be fun to watch for sure!
 
That call was pretty bad. Up there with the one that cost the flames the cup like 15 years ago.
 
mauconnfan said:
Please don't say the Blues are a bunch of thugs because it's not true. They are actually well coached and that's the only way they can hang with the Bruins by being physical, they've done well to be in this position it's impressive. Bruins will need to quite the Blues crowd early again because if they let them score early it will be crazy there. Game 6 will be fun to watch for sure!
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Thug was the wrong word from me. That was just emotion. My frustration, and I think Cassidy nailed it, is that they are allowed to play this way when in the regular season they could not. They are a big, physical team, with some solid skill players to go with that size.

I'm not even saying I don't like that style of hockey, it's what we all grew up watching. But 2018-19 hockey doesn't really look like that anymore. Both the top point teams in the west lost in the first round, as did the overall point leader Tampa. Boston nearly did. The skill teams are going down because the refs are calling the games differently. Not just Boston games or this series, all of them. Boston probably should have had 3-4 more power plays yesterday, if you called the game as it was in the regular season (and the second Blues goal wouldn't count).
 
Guapo said:
While it’s hard to argue with Gretzky being the best, I think Orr, Howe and Lemieux are definitely in a class above the others you have listed, with Orr arguably being in a class above those two...
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No question. Sorry, was just trying to make a point that Gretzky was and is the GOAT. I agree, those 3 are definitely above the others in a great "Tier 1A" HOF class.
 
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superjohn said:
It would appear that way but my Canadian buddy who knows everything about hockey has always stood by Super Mario being better than Gretzky. Gretzky has a million MVP's and more Stanley Cups but Mario was freaking awesome, most points per game and highest goals per game career average.
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I think if Mario played in the open ice 80s and could have stayed healthy throughout his career, your friend would be spot on. Talent wise, Lemieux was a freak. Unfortunately for him, he played in an era of neutral zone traps, hooking/interference, and a handful of stone wall goaltenders. Gretzky had a more difficult time once teams started copy catting the Florida Panthers/New Jersey Devils style of play for sure.
 
Dooley said:
I think if Mario played in the open ice 80s and could have stayed healthy throughout his career, your friend would be spot on. Talent wise, Lemieux was a freak. Unfortunately for him, he played in an era of neutral zone traps, hooking/interference, and a handful of stone wall goaltenders. Gretzky had a more difficult time once teams started copy catting the Florida Panthers/New Jersey Devils style of play for sure.
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Everyone blames the trap, and rightfully so.

But to me the big culprit of the late 90’s dead puck era was:

Butterfly goaltending and oversized pads
 
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Dooley said:
I'd agree. Gretzky is like Michael Jordan: in a league of his own. Nobody comes close. Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Hull, Richard, Messier, Francis, Jagr, Bourque, Crosby etc... all HOF players but nowhere near as good or dominant as Oilers' Gretzky. Oilers Gretzky was by far and away the best hockey player to have ever played.
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LOL, you must have never Bobby Orr play. It certainly is close. Different positions and all but they can’t be separated by much, so yes it s close.
 
FriarJ said:
LOL, you must have never Bobby Orr play. It certainly is close. Different positions and all but they can’t be separated by much, so yes it s close.
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It is not remotely close to anyone but Bruins fans. Orr was a great player. But Gretzky was a different dimension. Everyone knows this except boomer Boston fans who can't accept it.
 
zls44 said:
It is not remotely close to anyone but Bruins fans. Orr was a great player. But Gretzky was a different dimension. Everyone knows this except boomer Boston fans who can't accept it.
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Lol, Bruins fans my butt. Hockey fans who saw both know that Orr is the greatest to ever play. He was great at every single dimension of hockey, including toughness. He changed the game. Just google who was better and you will see a lot more than Bruins fans. The truth is only angry Whaler fans don’t see it.

Google Search

www.google.com
 
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zls44 said:
If you take away every goal Wayne Gretzky scored, he is still the NHL's all-time leader in points.

End of argument. End. Of. Discussion.
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Who says he was not great he was, the greatest forward to ever play. Orr was the greatest player to ever play. 100 years of hockey and only one defensemen ever lead the league in points. Gretzky played a long time because he was never touched. Orr was a hockey player.
 
FriarJ said:
Who says he was not great he was, the greatest forward to ever play. Orr was the greatest player to ever play. 100 years of hockey and only one defensemen ever lead the league in points. Gretzky played a long time because he was never touched. Orr was a hockey player.
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Gretzky was, factually, 100 times better at hockey than Bobby Orr and everyone else. He played in Edmonton, Orr played in Boston. That's the only reason this is discussed.

Orr changed the way defenseman played the game.

Gretzky expanded the entire freaking sport.
 
FriarJ said:
Who says he was not great he was, the greatest forward to ever play. Orr was the greatest player to ever play. 100 years of hockey and only one defensemen ever lead the league in points. Gretzky played a long time because he was never touched. Orr was a hockey player.
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Mario was better than both of them.
 
FriarJ said:
He was great at every single dimension of hockey, including toughness.
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I love this boomer argument about toughness, its so perfect, its a meaningless platitude that cannot be quantified so you will never admit you're wrong.

You're all so adorable.
 
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FriarJ said:
100 years of hockey and only one defensemen ever lead the league in points.
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Congrats 2 Bobby Orr for playing in the NHL at a time when forward play was the worst it was in its history
 
zls44 said:
1. I'm a Rangers fan, pops

2. A google search? Case closed, baby!
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Orr had a +124 one season. Nobody has ever come close to that ever. Case closed.
 
FriarJ said:
Orr had a +124 one season. Nobody has ever come close to that ever. Case closed.
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Plus-minus is a horrendous stat, as has been explained and acknowledged time and time again.

Your arguments are living in 1975. World's out here, pal.
 
zls44 said:
Congrats 2 Bobby Orr for playing in the NHL at a time when forward play was the worst it was in its history
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LOL, my problem with you is that you are a jerk about it. To say it’s not close between these two and to say only Bruins fans think so just shows you are on your own here.
 
FriarJ said:
LOL, my problem with you is that you are a jerk about it. To say it’s not close between these two and to say only Bruins fans think so just shows you are on your own here.
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Yeah, except I said it because it isnt and because only Bruins fans do.
 
Of course it is. So he set a mark that will never be touched and you say it is an horrendous stat. The fact is he was that dominate on both ends, you do realize there is more to hockey than points right?
 
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