OT: Stanley Cup Finals

[Pgh2Storrs]

Don't the Penguins have way more success this generation than the Bruins? Don't the Bruins only have one Cup?

One cup. One finals loss. Pens clearly have more success. Bruins would be top 4-5 in this era, win or lose really.

In the same way that the national CBB world tries to downplay our success, a lot of the same happens to Crosby/The Pens in the NHL. I really think that, once he’s done, people will wish they spent more time appreciating Sid and how brilliant he is instead of rushing to marginalize him or find “the next one”

Boston has been largely reliable this past decade, but I can do without a 2nd cup for this group.

 

[HuskyHawk]

In the same way that the national CBB world tries to downplay our success, a lot of the same happens to Crosby/The Pens in the NHL. I really think that, once he’s done, people will wish they spent more time appreciating Sid and how brilliant he is instead of rushing to marginalize him or find “the next one”

Boston has been largely reliable this past decade, but I can do without a 2nd cup for this group.

In the last ten years the Pens won 3, Blackhawks won 3, LA won 2. Strangely neither Chicago nor Pittsburgh lost a final (although the Pens did in 2008).

There's no real dominant team this century. Crosby is great. First ballot Hall of Fame, but nobody is dominating the game to any real degree in this era.

 

[superjohn]

In the same way that the national CBB world tries to downplay our success, a lot of the same happens to Crosby/The Pens in the NHL. I really think that, once he’s done, people will wish they spent more time appreciating Sid and how brilliant he is instead of rushing to marginalize him or find “the next one”

Boston has been largely reliable this past decade, but I can do without a 2nd cup for this group.

I don't follow hockey closely but enjoy watching playoff games. I've always thought Crosby was considered the player of his generation and Penguins right there with Blackhawks for team of the generation.

 

[Pgh2Storrs]

In the last ten years the Pens won 3, Blackhawks won 3, LA won 2. Strangely neither Chicago nor Pittsburgh lost a final (although the Pens did in 2008).

There's no real dominant team this century. Crosby is great. First ballot Hall of Fame, but nobody is dominating the game to any real degree in this era.

With good health to finish out his career, Sid should end up in the same conversation with Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr. He’s done it all, multiple times, and been the best player of his generation at a time when the league is probably at its peak in terms of skill. His numbers won’t look like 99 or 66, but he also has to play against ungodly goaltending that those guys largely didn’t see until Roy/Marty/Hasek ushered in a new generation.

In any event, I don’t mean to derail the convo. Sunday should be a fun one. I’ll be interested to see how much Boston has left in the tank, as they looked gassed last night. STL’s physicality has been impressive

 

[Dooley]

Dooley Preface: there isn't a sports team who I hate more than the Boston Bruins. It's not close whatsoever. That is completely 1000% the fault of being an old Whalers fan back in the day. The Whale could never beat them and, worse yet, every home game had thousands of obnoxious Bruins fans in the old Civic Center. The worst sporting event I've ever attended to this day was Game 4 of the 1990 playoffs first round. I'm still irrationally mad about that loss.

But...this series is far from over. Game 5 went exactly how I thought it would - Bruins carrying the shot advantage, man advantages, and most of the play...and Binnington would have to "steal" the game. He did. He played great. Now it's Rask's turn to steal game 6 because I'd expect the game to be the opposite in shots. He's certainly capable of doing so. The Bruins were in this same spot in the first round this year against Toronto and came through with a big game. I know the Blues are much better, tougher, and far more gritty than the Leafs and the challenge is more difficult, but they do have experience winning an elimination game on the road. Also, they will likely use the "no call" from game 5 to isolate themselves in a perfect 'Us vs the World' mode while they're on the road.

As much as I hate to admit it. the Bruins are a good team and are very resilient. They're just being battle tested by the first team in this postseason that can actually stand up to them physically and win most 1:1 battles. If they can withstand the first period and get an early lead, they can settle in to playing a nice, gritty road game much like the gritty road game the Blues just played in game 5.

I think the Blues are a better road team than home team and I can see them being pressured into trying to entertain the home crowd instead of doing what they do best. Home teams often pass up good scoring chances to try to create a pretty scoring chance but not succeeding. The Bruins did it a few times in Game 5. The Blues did it a few times in Game 3. If that happens and the Bruins can get back to getting pucks on net and play a gritty road game, they might be able to take advantage of a tight Blues group.

All that said, I will be rooting HARD for St Louis to close this out on Sunday. I apologize to you Bruins fans who are completely redeemed by being good UConn fans.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This from Berry Tramel. Interesting take. You NY Giants fans will revel in how close Boston came to the trifecta that season. Can Boston become a triple-title town?

 

[HooperScooper]

Most entertaining part of the game was Cam Neely's reaction to the 2nd goal and the non-call.



This should be a gif so everyone can use it to express their frustration when they're frustrated with their favorite team. It could have been used a lot on the Yard the last 3 years!

 

[Dooley]

Most entertaining part of the game was Cam Neely's reaction to the 2nd goal and the non-call.



This should be a gif so everyone can use it to express their frustration when they're frustrated with their favorite team. It could have been used a lot on the Yard the last 3 years!

That was probably my favorite moment of the night. Bitter old Whaler fan!

 

[Guapo]

This from Berry Tramel. Interesting take. You NY Giants fans will revel in how close Boston came to the trifecta that season. Can Boston become a triple-title town?

I am shocked - SHOCKED - that Barry Tramel wrote about hockey.

 

[HuskyHawk]

With good health to finish out his career, Sid should end up in the same conversation with Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr. He’s done it all, multiple times, and been the best player of his generation at a time when the league is probably at its peak in terms of skill. His numbers won’t look like 99 or 66, but he also has to play against ungodly goaltending that those guys largely didn’t see until Roy/Marty/Hasek ushered in a new generation.

In any event, I don’t mean to derail the convo. Sunday should be a fun one. I’ll be interested to see how much Boston has left in the tank, as they looked gassed last night. STL’s physicality has been impressive

He's not as good as those three, not relative to his peers. Not close really. I recall watching a young Gretzky and he could just skate and skate and nobody could take the puck from him. In an era when the defense could do some nasty things. Plus, no two line passes back then.

Gretzky lead the NHL in points 11 times. Mario 6 times, Howe 6 times. How about +/-? Orr lead that 6 times, Gretzky 5. Oddly enough David Krejci is tied for 3rd at 2 times. Assists? Gretzky did it 16 times! Next most is Orr, at 5 times. That's astonishing for a defenseman. Mario tied for 3rd at 3 times. Goals is lead by his contemporary, Ovetchkin, at 8 times. Followed by Bobby Hull, then Gretzky and Howe. Crosby isn't on any of these lists.

He's really good. But he's not really better than several other guys in this era. He doesn't stand out.

 

[Dooley]

He's not as good as those three, not relative to his peers. Not close really. I recall watching a young Gretzky and he could just skate and skate and nobody could take the puck from him. In an era when the defense could do some nasty things. Plus, no two line passes back then.

Gretzky lead the NHL in points 11 times. Mario 6 times, Howe 6 times. How about +/-? Orr lead that 6 times, Gretzky 5. Oddly enough David Krejci is tied for 3rd at 2 times. Assists? Gretzky did it 16 times! Next most is Orr, at 5 times. That's astonishing for a defenseman. Mario tied for 3rd at 3 times. Goals is lead by his contemporary, Ovetchkin, at 8 times. Followed by Bobby Hull, then Gretzky and Howe. Crosby isn't on any of these lists.

He's really good. But he's not really better than several other guys in this era. He doesn't stand out.

I'd agree. Gretzky is like Michael Jordan: in a league of his own. Nobody comes close. Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Hull, Richard, Messier, Francis, Jagr, Bourque, Crosby etc... all HOF players but nowhere near as good or dominant as Oilers' Gretzky. Oilers Gretzky was by far and away the best hockey player to have ever played.

 

[superjohn]

I'd agree. Gretzky is like Michael Jordan: in a league of his own. Nobody comes close. Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Hull, Richard, Messier, Francis, Jagr, Bourque, Crosby etc... all HOF players but nowhere near as good or dominant as Oilers' Gretzky. Oilers Gretzky was by far and away the best hockey player to have ever played.

It would appear that way but my Canadian buddy who knows everything about hockey has always stood by Super Mario being better than Gretzky. Gretzky has a million MVP's and more Stanley Cups but Mario was freaking awesome, most points per game and highest goals per game career average.

 

[Guapo]

I'd agree. Gretzky is like Michael Jordan: in a league of his own. Nobody comes close. Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Hull, Richard, Messier, Francis, Jagr, Bourque, Crosby etc... all HOF players but nowhere near as good or dominant as Oilers' Gretzky. Oilers Gretzky was by far and away the best hockey player to have ever played.

While it’s hard to argue with Gretzky being the best, I think Orr, Howe and Lemieux are definitely in a class above the others you have listed, with Orr arguably being in a class above those two...

 

[mauconnfan]

Please don't say the Blues are a bunch of thugs because it's not true. They are actually well coached and that's the only way they can hang with the Bruins by being physical, they've done well to be in this position it's impressive. Bruins will need to quite the Blues crowd early again because if they let them score early it will be crazy there. Game 6 will be fun to watch for sure!

 

[the Q]

That call was pretty bad. Up there with the one that cost the flames the cup like 15 years ago.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Please don't say the Blues are a bunch of thugs because it's not true. They are actually well coached and that's the only way they can hang with the Bruins by being physical, they've done well to be in this position it's impressive. Bruins will need to quite the Blues crowd early again because if they let them score early it will be crazy there. Game 6 will be fun to watch for sure!

Thug was the wrong word from me. That was just emotion. My frustration, and I think Cassidy nailed it, is that they are allowed to play this way when in the regular season they could not. They are a big, physical team, with some solid skill players to go with that size.

I'm not even saying I don't like that style of hockey, it's what we all grew up watching. But 2018-19 hockey doesn't really look like that anymore. Both the top point teams in the west lost in the first round, as did the overall point leader Tampa. Boston nearly did. The skill teams are going down because the refs are calling the games differently. Not just Boston games or this series, all of them. Boston probably should have had 3-4 more power plays yesterday, if you called the game as it was in the regular season (and the second Blues goal wouldn't count).

 

[Dooley]

While it’s hard to argue with Gretzky being the best, I think Orr, Howe and Lemieux are definitely in a class above the others you have listed, with Orr arguably being in a class above those two...

No question. Sorry, was just trying to make a point that Gretzky was and is the GOAT. I agree, those 3 are definitely above the others in a great "Tier 1A" HOF class.

 

[Dooley]

It would appear that way but my Canadian buddy who knows everything about hockey has always stood by Super Mario being better than Gretzky. Gretzky has a million MVP's and more Stanley Cups but Mario was freaking awesome, most points per game and highest goals per game career average.

I think if Mario played in the open ice 80s and could have stayed healthy throughout his career, your friend would be spot on. Talent wise, Lemieux was a freak. Unfortunately for him, he played in an era of neutral zone traps, hooking/interference, and a handful of stone wall goaltenders. Gretzky had a more difficult time once teams started copy catting the Florida Panthers/New Jersey Devils style of play for sure.

 

[Guapo]

I think if Mario played in the open ice 80s and could have stayed healthy throughout his career, your friend would be spot on. Talent wise, Lemieux was a freak. Unfortunately for him, he played in an era of neutral zone traps, hooking/interference, and a handful of stone wall goaltenders. Gretzky had a more difficult time once teams started copy catting the Florida Panthers/New Jersey Devils style of play for sure.

Everyone blames the trap, and rightfully so.

But to me the big culprit of the late 90’s dead puck era was:

Butterfly goaltending and oversized pads

 

[zls44]

It is not remotely close to anyone but Bruins fans. Orr was a great player. But Gretzky was a different dimension. Everyone knows this except boomer Boston fans who can't accept it.

 

[zls44]

If you take away every goal Wayne Gretzky scored, he is still the NHL's all-time leader in points.

End of argument. End. Of. Discussion.

 

[zls44]

Gretzky was, factually, 100 times better at hockey than Bobby Orr and everyone else. He played in Edmonton, Orr played in Boston. That's the only reason this is discussed.

Orr changed the way defenseman played the game.

Gretzky expanded the entire freaking sport.