OT: Seth Davis on Geno/Wooden Comparison

[ctchamps]

That's fair it just seems silly and unnecessary that he's taking his biggest shot at men's basketball which people watch. Outside of some grandparents in Connecticut most everyone finds women's basketball unwatchable.

He's a big fan of basketball - college men, college women, and pro bb. The only reason I got into this debate was to prevent a group of people taking something out of context and starting a misconstrued rumor. The guy waxes poetic about Wooden and the UCLA games. In a recent interview with Lowe he discussed that era as if it was yesterday. Ask him anything about the 76's and he'll most likely have an answer for you. He's a walking encyclopedia about bb and has no desire to get into these silly debates about the sport. He knows the differences between the products. He has a vested interest in all of it and wants all of it to succeed. And he recognizes the sports success depends on viewership.

He's a pragmatist. He's well aware that today's bb athletes are far superior physically then in the past, but much more so on the men's side than the women's. And the consequence of that is a game that has bogged down. He's only advocating that the NCAA design rules to negate this. Again it's more a necessity in his mind for men's bb because of the men's athleticism. That's an acknowledgement of what everyone has stated in this thread.

 

[mauconnfan]

NERXT

 

[uconnell]

Don't know if it is true that wbb is not talked about outside of Ct, I do know when I wear an UConn wbb tee in my travels people engage me in conversation about one thing or another.

 

[David 76]

http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/03/29/college-basketball I remember reading the title game got a good rating but the sport is not watched much overall and the WNBA is a huge drag on the NBA.[/QUOTE I don't know that publication or the author, but the article is bad. She ( their cultural and lifestyle reporter) says in adjacent paragraphs that UConn's women did not draw half their average attendance in the 14 tourney AND undefeated in the 14 tourney. they drew 33% more viwers than 13 in the final
At best, pretty unclear stats. She also mention that our men's team was undefeated.

 

[borninansonia]

I asked a group of intelligent women, and one man (former CFL defensive back) and they all agreed, coaching women is much more difficult. Men can more easily operate as a team, they said. Women, too many hormones. And then came the kicker-- one of the women there played college ball and said that it's much easier to coach men primarily because many of the women players are gay (she said 50%, and she is straight), may be sleeping with each other, and then break up and have all sorts of emotional issues on the court. But us men, we don't have that issue, or it's very rare. (I'm gay, played basketball for decades, and never saw or heard about a relationship between the players.)

So I think what Geno has done is much more difficult.

From a personal point of view, dealing with a team of women sounds like hell to me. I have no understanding of women.

 

[mauconnfan]

I asked a group of intelligent women, and one man (former CFL defensive back) and they all agreed, coaching women is much more difficult. Men can more easily operate as a team, they said. Women, too many hormones. And then came the kicker-- one of the women there played college ball and said that it's much easier to coach men primarily because many of the women players are gay (she said 50%, and she is straight), may be sleeping with each other, and then break up and have all sorts of emotional issues on the court. But us men, we don't have that issue, or it's very rare. (I'm gay, played basketball for decades, and never saw or heard about a relationship between the players.)

So I think what Geno has done is much more difficult.

From a personal point of view, dealing with a team of women sounds like hell to me. I have no understanding of women.

Please those are ridiculous reasons and most are inaccurate too. I have no idea on who's gay and who isn't but I doubt this is a huge issue although obviously that and the emotions are different. Hence Chris Dailey who gets paid might handsomely to deflect some of that from the actual coaching that Geno does I am sure. What you and the others are forgetting in the mens game is many of the best boys hoopsters come from city backgrounds, warm climates, poorer families and have to adjust to a life in Storrs without warm clothing and things they've never encountered in life before too. They both have their issues off the court so both are very difficult jobs there. The actual coaching just isn't close though based on the parity of the games.

 

[David 76]

I would think dealing with all the testosterone is a bigger challenge. Everyone wanting to be the alpha dog.
But I do think Ansonia makes some good points.

 

[Scottzer]

Geno gets plenty of top classes, but, they aren't 1, 2, 7, and 11. More like a top 3, a top 20, top 30, and a top 40. There's enough room in those gaps for other coaches to recruit a better class (on paper). While his classes are very good, I think his players often become the best when they are here, but not necessarily prior to arrival.
While you don't need a Kentucky-esque class in the women's game every year due to players sticking around, I wouldn't characterize his classes at that level either.
All that said - I don't particularly care about hearing these comparisons. Greatness is greatness, and just leave it at that.

 

[Scottzer]

Please those are ridiculous reasons and most are inaccurate too. I have no idea on who's gay and who isn't but I doubt this is a huge issue although obviously that and the emotions are different. Hence Chris Dailey who gets paid might handsomely to deflect some of that from the actual coaching that Geno does I am sure. What you and the others are forgetting in the mens game is many of the best boys hoopsters come from city backgrounds, warm climates, poorer families and have to adjust to a life in Storrs without warm clothing and things they've never encountered in life before too. They both have their issues off the court so both are very difficult jobs there. The actual coaching just isn't close though based on the parity of the games.

Exactly - it also can't be easy when your players might be tempted by agents, have parents that expect mortgages to be paid, and other handlers who expect to get something out of incoming recruits in a way that just isn't prevalent in the women's game.

 

[Obrero]

Geno is GOAT in women's history. No one can argue that, but I agree one shouldn't compare coaches across the mens/womens line. The fact that I enter each season with the legitimate expectation for the women's team to win the natty says enough about Geno.

Why shouldn't coaches be compared across the mens/womens line?? You're not comparing the sports, you're comparing the coaching. Wooden is not just considered the best mens basketball coach of all time, he's also counted among the best coaches in sports history (mentioned in the same breath with Lombardi, for example). The way I see it, to deny Geno the right to be compared with greatest coaches in history, with that history including mens basketball, is to undervalue women's athletic achievements and disparage women's sports.

 

[Obrero]

And another thing: If you're talking about Geno getting all the best players- which obviously isn't true based on the comments here from people who know about these things- then you'll need to put a big fat asterisk next to Phil Jackson in the record books too. Here's a guy who never built a winner in his life, always stepped into winning situations, and then coached the hell out those teams and filled both hands with championship rings. So, if you're claiming Geno has had some unusual advantages, are you also going to minimize what Phil Jackson has achieved??

 

[borninansonia]

Exactly - it also can't be easy when your players might be tempted by agents, have parents that expect mortgages to be paid, and other handlers who expect to get something out of incoming recruits in a way that just isn't prevalent in the women's game.

You are referring to the way men's basketball is now. When Wooden coached, players stayed 4 years, and the problems with handlers and agents were just beginning. It was easier being a men's coach back then.

 

[mauconnfan]

Why shouldn't coaches be compared across the mens/womens line?? You're not comparing the sports, you're comparing the coaching. Wooden is not just considered the best mens basketball coach of all time, he's also counted among the best coaches in sports history (mentioned in the same breath with Lombardi, for example). The way I see it, to deny Geno the right to be compared with greatest coaches in history, with that history including mens basketball, is to undervalue women's athletic achievements and disparage women's sports.

No it's not at all disparaging. No mens fan in his right mind would not respect what Geno has done and he has surpassed Pat Summitt by miles. It's a whole different world, different athletes performing in ways limited to their own abilities. Coaching them is an art and respect to each who have done and do such miraculous jobs to make champions out of the players they have. But it ends there. Much tougher to coach and compete year in - year out in the men's game and it's really not close. This frivolity needs to end here.

Compare away but it's ridiculous.

 

[mauconnfan]

And another thing: If you're talking about Geno getting all the best players- which obviously isn't true based on the comments here from people who know about these things- then you'll need to put a big fat asterisk next to Phil Jackson in the record books too. Here's a guy who never built a winner in his life, always stepped into winning situations, and then coached the hell out those teams and filled both hands with championship rings. So, if you're claiming Geno has had some unusual advantages, are you also going to minimize what Phil Jackson has achieved??

Phil Jackson shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Wooden, K and JC anyway again, different world. Not sure where people say Geno doesn't have the best players unless of course having 8-10 players from the Top 15 every year who stay ALL 4 years all the time isn't considered the best. No doubt that ND, Duke, Baylor, Stanford, UT and Maryland also get some real good ones but it ends there and gene outreaches the living crap out of all those ladies.

You don't think you can write down the FF or real close this year for the women's game?

 

[David 76]

Mau, I largely agree with you but you continue to ignore 2 things:
1) Wooden did not coach with parity either. In fact, he won almost every year. Geno got there w/o being able to win 4 in a row.
2) Geno gets great players. But he did not originally. He created a great winning tradition w/o the best players.

 

[SHS72]

Geno, whether you like him personaly or not, is one of CB's greatest coaches, men or women, hands down!

 

[mauconnfan]

Mau, I largely agree with you but you continue to ignore 2 things:
1) Wooden did not coach with parity either. In fact, he won almost every year. Geno got there w/o being able to win 4 in a row.
2) Geno gets great players. But he did not originally. He created a great winning tradition w/o the best players.

David do your homework young man. I have admitted multiple times Wooden was prior to mens parity, many times.

Geno did begin that way although he had really good players and now and since, the best. And it wasn't tough to win the BE womens title as I stated as they all were awful basketball teams right, really bad. Not the same in the mens where it was tough enough to get past that step on the ladder seeing the mens BE was the absolute best league in college basketball bar none. So I can handle the "slight comparison" to the Wooden years based on that, but the thought of his job being anywhere near any mens coach in a great league especially JC's is ludicrous.

Not sure how come fans can't live with "best women's basketball coach ever"? Maybe because it's not enough knowing it was pretty easy in comparison?

 

[David 76]

Not comparing Geno to JC and I don't know why you are.
But let's drop it. I like you too much and the point ain't worth it.
Peace!

PS Happy to be called a young man even after my birthday

 

[mauconnfan]

Not comparing Geno to JC and I don't know why you are.
But let's drop it. I like you too much and the point ain't worth it.
Peace!

PS Happy to be called a young man even after my birthday

Happy Bday young guy!

 

[HuskyNan]

I asked a group of intelligent women, and one man (former CFL defensive back) and they all agreed, coaching women is much more difficult. Men can more easily operate as a team, they said. Women, too many hormones. And then came the kicker-- one of the women there played college ball and said that it's much easier to coach men primarily because many of the women players are gay (she said 50%, and she is straight), may be sleeping with each other, and then break up and have all sorts of emotional issues on the court. But us men, we don't have that issue, or it's very rare. (I'm gay, played basketball for decades, and never saw or heard about a relationship between the players.)

So I think what Geno has done is much more difficult.

From a personal point of view, dealing with a team of women sounds like hell to me. I have no understanding of women.

I've read a few posts in this thread that tempted me to reply but, boy, this one takes the cake. I've probably talked to 50 high school, AAU, and college coaches through the years and almost universally the feeling is that women are more coachable because yong girls want to please the authority figures in their lives, they're consensus builders, and team players. They stay in college for four years and don't have posses or agents hanging around them. Geno has said numerous time he'd rather coach women.

As for the whole "hormone" thing - smh.