OT - Rashad McCants says he took fake classes, tutors wrote his papers

[CAHUSKY]

Everyone's experience is different. McCants case in particular, my contention is he wasn't pressured into anything. He knew the game (eligibility), it suited his ultimate goal (NBA), so it was really a no brainer. His education wasn't his main priority. For him to try to feel he was cheated out of it seemed suspect to me.

It also suited UNC motives which is why I guarantee they steered in in to those classes. Should he have stood strong against them as an 18 year old and demanded a real education? In a fantasy world, sure. In reality no. And I actually agree w you that at that point eligibility was probably far more important to McCants than an education. None of that changes the fact that UNC is dirty as hell and that there is now a legitimate explanation why McCants feels he was exploited. Did he benefit, yes. Is that the point?, only if you are looking for a reason to exonerate UNC and it's minions.

 

[CAHUSKY]

well again, my original post was posing the question, what was his beef with the university..since he became a millionaire after leaving college.. it was kinda a rhetorical question, but since everyone jump in trying to say he was some type of victim.. i just don't see it that way. and i still believe UNC should be banned..

Ok, McCants isn't a victim. How about the hundreds of others who were steeredto fraudulent courses and denied an education? Were those kids capable of completing traditional UNC coursework?, possibly not but that's not their fault. It's UNC's for admitting them and for setting up the fantasyland curriculum. If you want to hold up 18-20 year old kids as the problem, go ahead, I'd suggest the blame lies elsewhere.

 

[TheRogers]

It also suited UNC motives which is why I guarantee they steered in in to those classes. Should he have stood strong against them as an 18 year old and demanded a real education? In a fantasy world, sure. In reality no. And I actually agree w you that at that point eligibility was probably far more important to McCants than an education. None of that changes the fact that UNC is dirty as hell and that there is now a legitimate explanation why McCants feels he was exploited. Did he benefit, yes. Is that the point?, only if you are looking for a reason to exonerate UNC and it's minions.

It also suited UNC motives which is why I guarantee they steered in in to those classes. Should he have stood strong against them as an 18 year old and demanded a real education? In a fantasy world, sure. In reality no. And I actually agree w you that at that point eligibility was probably far more important to McCants than an education. None of that changes the fact that UNC is dirty as hell and that there is now a legitimate explanation why McCants feels he was exploited. Did he benefit, yes. Is that the point?, only if you are looking for a reason to exonerate UNC and it's minions.

That fantasy world could be more real than you think. I could use you as an example who did not take the path of least resistance (based on your previous post). I won't claim to say I have an indepth knowledge of the goings-on of a D1 athlete. My only basis is meeting a few and became friends and worked with a few. The pressure was there for the easier classes (to not worry about eligibility) but in the end the choice was theirs to pursue an actual education (courses necessary for their future professions).

I agree that UNC (or any other university) should be punished for such unethical behavior. In no way do I think they should be exonerated. Not everything is absolute so yes there will be some that are/were exploited. That's why UNC should get its due.

 

[intlzncster]

That fantasy world could be more real than you think. I could use you as an example who did not take the path of least resistance (based on your previous post). I won't claim to say I have an indepth knowledge of the goings-on of a D1 athlete. My only basis is meeting a few and became friends and worked with a few. The pressure was there for the easier classes (to not worry about eligibility) but in the end the choice was theirs to pursue an actual education (courses necessary for their future professions).

That's true, but for guys like McCants, that future profession is basketball (even though it didn't work out for him...not for a lack of talent).

 

[ktuck911]

i wonder how long they'll drag this matter out for UNC to get hit with sanctions the way we did... This is potential death penalty type allegations, no?

 

[intlzncster]

i wonder how long they'll drag this matter out for UNC to get hit with sanctions the way we did... This is potential death penalty type allegations, no?

Yes. But that won't happen. Too much of a flagship.

 

[CL82]

Yes. But that won't happen. Too much of a flagship.

I'm sure you are correct but I just can't wrap my mind around the NCAA letting them skate. This is really bad stuff that puts the integrity of the entire student athlete model in doubt if left unsanctioned.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I'm sure you are correct but I just can't wrap my mind around the NCAA letting them skate. This is really bad stuff that puts the integrity of the entire student athlete model in doubt if left unsanctioned.

And it's the kind of thing that isn't going to help them in the O'Bannon lawsuit. Part of me wonders if the NCAA is going to throw the book at UNC to protect themselves in court. When their argument against paying players centers around the free education those kids get, you know that the plaintiffs are going to bring this type of thing up.

 

[intlzncster]

And it's the kind of thing that isn't going to help them in the O'Bannon lawsuit. Part of me wonders if the NCAA is going to throw the book at UNC to protect themselves in court. When their argument against paying players centers around the free education those kids get, you know that the plaintiffs are going to bring this type of thing up.

Does this compromise NCAA's tax exemption status in any way? I've not idea about this sort of thing, so anyone please chime in if they do. Does Congress get involved in some other fashion?

 

[jibsey]

Just came out per Andy Katz, NC must determine if academic fraud occurred before the NCAA gets involved which is why nothing so far from NCAA. So why can't NC just say it didn't occur?

 

[TheRogers]

That's true, but for guys like McCants, that future profession is basketball (even though it didn't work out for him...not for a lack of talent).

Exactly. So the choice RM made maximized his chances of getting into the league. Maybe there were easier (actual) courses but he chose the AFAM courses. RM himself said he had an idea of what went on in college and when he was there, expectations met reality and that suited him just fine based on his actions. He went through a path that got him to his goal and is now blaming the school for not being able to go down another path - a path that presented more challenges towards his goal. (It's one thing to say that you were told of a particular business program that interested you and then you enroll and find out there wasn't one in place. I think one of the UNC football players complained about that. That football player had a legitimate gripe and did something about it. He transfered.)

 

[TheRogers]

Just came out per Andy Katz, NC must determine if academic fraud occurred before the NCAA gets involved which is why nothing so far from NCAA. So why can't NC just say it didn't occur?

LOL, Roy already said it doeasn't.....so it must be true.

It's like that scene in Old School when Dean Martin asked Thornton Mellon if he cheated.

 

[ktuck911]

this all happened BEFORE our 'academic' sanctions too... smh... That along with went on with the football team there... smh... they better be fair about this... let some of that talent slip away for a few years (hopefully up North to Storrs CT)... They cheated, so they gotta pay....

 

[jazyj]

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=11036924
I'm sure that UNC will be suspended from postseason play any day now.

lets not pretend that this doesn't happen a most campuses, probably even happened at UCONN

 

[pnete]

www.usatoday.com/story/sports/...tions/10102253/

From USA TODAY:

Sixteen players from North Carolina's 2005 national championship team issued the following statement Friday responding to former teammate Rashad McCants' allegations of academic misconduct:

"We are proud of our accomplishments both on and off the floor at UNC. With conviction, each one of us is proud to say that we attended class and did our own academic work. We want to thank our advisers and counselors who supported us, while also maintaining the integrity of the institution. We also want to make it clear that Coach Williams and his staff operated with the highest level of ethics and integrity within their respective roles. We are forever grateful for the lessons we learned on the court, in the classroom and during our time in Chapel Hill.

"In light of the comments made by Rashad on ESPN Outside the Lines, we want to state that our personal academic experiences are not consistent with Rashad's claims. We know that Coach Williams did not have any knowledge of any academic impropriety, and further that Coach Williams would not have tried to manipulate a player's schedule. Rashad will always be our teammate and we wish him well on all of his future endeavors."

Signed by:

Charlie Everett

Raymond Felton

Brooks Foster

Damion Grant

Jesse Holley

C.J. Hooker

Jackie Manuel

Sean May

Wes Miller

David Noel

Byron Sanders

Melvin Scott

Reyshawn Terry

Quentin Thomas

Jawad Williams

Marvin Williams

---------------------------------------------

Funny second to last sentence.

"We know that Coach Williams did not have any knowledge of any academic impropriety, and further that Coach Williams would not have tried to manipulate a player's schedule."

How can they know he wasn't aware if they did all their own work, unless they knew of cases where players did cheat/not do work/had tutors do it and Roy was in the dark. You would think the lawyers who wrote this for them would have worded it better (similar to their experiences at UNC).

They imply that someone on the team did cheat and they knew, but Roy didn't.

 

[pnete]

A little known secret about the letter signed by prior players for NC is that it has been doctored by the school's English department.
The original letter read this way.

Duh, Duh. Duh, Duh, Duh..

 

[housekeys]

lets not pretend that this doesn't happen a most campuses, probably even happened at UCONN

It did not happen in the past few years. FACT. If it did, we would report 1000 APR and never been on probation. So yea, it can happen everywhere, not at UConn recently, or in this fashion.

 

[housekeys]

Just came out per Andy Katz, NC must determine if academic fraud occurred before the NCAA gets involved which is why nothing so far from NCAA. So why can't NC just say it didn't occur?

LOL. So let NC define fraud, like a criminal defines rape. I am sure they are innocent and the NCAA is off the hook.

 

[CallMeBruce]

lets not pretend that this doesn't happen a most campuses, probably even happened at UCONN

Entire fake departments set up to keep athletes eligible and keep teams in good standing? Really? You think that happens most places?

 

[huskypantz]

When I was at UConn, Geology was nicknamed "rocks for jocks". UConn had easy classes too (early electives), we just didn't have a fabricated program where you wrote a single paper to achieve an "A" in each class.

 

[Rocktheworld]

When I was at UConn, Geology was nicknamed "rocks for jocks". UConn had easy classes too (early electives), we just didn't have a fabricated program where you wrote a single paper to achieve an "A" in each class.

Pfff even that would be too much at UNC. They don't even write their own papers all the time there.

But picturing a paper written in 5th grade writing skills, about rocks, receiving an A, is pretty hilarious.

 

[Taco]

When I was at UConn, Geology was nicknamed "rocks for jocks". UConn had easy classes too (early electives), we just didn't have a fabricated program where you wrote a single paper to achieve an "A" in each class.

Yeah, there are/were some "guts" - DRM, Allied Health come to mind ... They weren't hard to get a decent grade in w/I much too much effort, but you did have to show up and do some work (a good amount to Ace it - as every course was on a bell curve so some folks got crappy grades.)

Big difference in having gut or two (or three) to balance out the harder semesters, to having an entire major that is composed of nothing but pushover courses!

All schools have easier courses in most majors (at least relatively) & these courses are widely (& strategically) taken by most students.

This entire major appears to be athletes only - UNC is a very good school - and my guess is that no student deserving of (academic) admission would stoop to this... I could be wrong, but that's my hunch.

 

[Robertelamin]

Yeah, there are/were some "guts" - DRM, Allied Health come to mind ... They weren't hard to get a decent grade in w/I much too much effort, but you did have to show up and do some work (a good amount to Ace it - as every course was on a bell curve so some folks got crappy grades.)

Big difference in having gut or two (or three) to balance out the harder semesters, to having an entire major that is composed of nothing but pushover courses!

All schools have easier courses in most majors (at least relatively) & these courses are widely (& strategically) taken by most students.

This entire major appears to be athletes only - UNC is a very good school - and my guess is that no student deserving of (academic) admission would stoop to this... I could be wrong, but that's my hunch.

Well the reason they were let off the hook when this story first came out was that they were fraudulent classes that all students could take.

 

[Taco]

Well the reason they were let off the hook when this story first came out was that they were fraudulent classes that all students could take.

I got that, but these easier classes @ UCONN were few & not related to one another - they were intros & you couldn't major in them. They were also real classes - just not the most challenging.

Oh, and this allegations of tutors writing these papers is insane - it's fraud for the tutor who wrote it as well. Why would they risk potentially ruining their careers - unless there wasn't any risk? Both parties, if caught, would get expelled & it would follow them around the rest of their lives.

 

[intlzncster]

I got that, but these easier classes @ UCONN were few & not related to one another - they were intros & you couldn't major in them. They were also real classes - just not the most challenging.

Oh, and this allegations of tutors writing these papers is insane - it's fraud for the tutor who wrote it as well. Why would they risk potentially ruining their careers - unless there wasn't any risk? Both parties, if caught, would get expelled & it would follow them around the rest of their lives.

He wasn't disputing your overall point. He was just pointing out that, by an ever so ridiculous technicality, the fake classes became a school matter vs an NCAA matter, precisely because any student was allowed to take these 'classes', not just the athletes. The NCAA therefore, in their warped sense of right, wrong, and jurisdiction, had no authority to rule over UNC in school-wide academic situations. In other words, it was a cop out.