OT: Poll--Who are you taking #1 in the draft?

[Huskyforlife]

Fultz might've gone second last year, considering how great of a PG prospect Simmons is. But Fultz might be the safest bet in awhile.

 

[CTisballers]

He

Honestly for me he might as well be European because I don't think I saw him play once. I saw Ball, Jackson and Tatum at least a half a dozen times each.

He got hurt in the middle of the year but this dude can really play. The celtics can't go wrong with either of the but if I was the GM I'll take josh Jackson because they already have good guards in IT, AB, Marcus smart and Rozier who I think be really good.

 

[the Q]

Glad you could find a single person who doesn't like Fultz #1 here. I haven't seen anyone else say that. Guess someone's gotta be the contrarian.


Fultz would have gone ahead of anyone in the last 5 years aside from a healthy Embiid. NBA drafts aren't coined as either good or bad because of their depth lol.

Nope. Not brow. Not Wiggins. Not Towns and not Simmons. He's closer to a healthy Noel than any of those guys.

 

[NielsisGood]

Nope. Not brow. Not Wiggins. Not Towns and not Simmons. He's closer to a healthy Noel than any of those guys.

Brow was more than 5 years ago. Fultz definitely goes ahead of Wiggins and Simmons (and there's been enough people who have specifically referenced Fultz>Simmons at this point) and Towns is a toss up if accounting for how Towns was thought of coming out.


You are wrong.

 

[the Q]

Brow was more than 5 years ago. Fultz definitely goes ahead of Wiggins and Simmons (and there's been enough people who have specifically referenced Fultz>Simmons at this point) and Towns is a toss up if accounting for how Towns was thought of coming out.


You are wrong.

Nope, you can't even get the dates right.

Brow was 2012.

and KAT was almost as good of a prospect as Brow.

Fultz has been considered a below average #1 pick by the advanced metrics.

 

[NielsisGood]

Nope, you can't even get the dates right.

Brow was 2012.

and KAT was almost as good of a prospect as Brow.

Fultz has been considered a below average #1 pick by the advanced metrics.

Do you know how to count? 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. Tell me how many draft classes you count there. I've ran the algorithms and crunched the numbers and have come up with 5.

KAT wasn't even considered as good as Embiid at the time, much less Davis. People were actually having serious discussions whether Okafor should go #1 that year.


Feel free to post any advanced metrics that show Fultz as a below average #1 pick, just because I've read enough takes on how he's the surefire #1 pick in the best draft of the last 5 years and a righty Harden.

 

[Walker11]

Do you know how to count? 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. Tell me how many draft classes you count there. I've ran the algorithms and crunched the numbers and have come up with 5.

KAT wasn't even considered as good as Embiid at the time, much less Davis. People were actually having serious discussions whether Okafor should go #1 that year.


Feel free to post any advanced metrics that show Fultz as a below average #1 pick, just because I've read enough takes on how he's the surefire #1 pick in the best draft of the last 5 years and a righty Harden.

You are definitely right on Towns. Hindsight clouds our memories, but he wasn't thought of as highly as Q remembers. Even in HS, he was either the 6th or 8th ranked recruit.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Anyone who can stop Lebron

 

[husky429]

Anyone who can stop Lebron

Who other than kawhi Leonard can? Draymond green?

And when he's in playoff mode, I don't know if either of them is getting in front of the lebron freight train anyways.

 

[Walker11]

I'll go on record stating that I think Ball will be a better player than Fultz. I know I am in the minority, and I would actually pick Fultz if I was the Celtics. Better fit on the floor and culturally. I just see Ball having a higher upside that he may be less likely to realize.

 

[NielsisGood]

I'll go on record stating that I think Ball will be a better player than Fultz. I know I am in the minority, and I would actually pick Fultz if I was the Celtics. Better fit on the floor and culturally. I just see Ball having a higher upside that he may be less likely to realize.

That's interesting. What do you consider both of their ceilings to be? Fultz as a right handed Harden and Ball as like a LeBron Jr?

 

[Walker11]

That's interesting. What do you consider both of their ceilings to be? Fultz as a right handed Harden and Ball as like a LeBron Jr?

I think Fultz could be prime Brandon Roy with better range. They both have an unbelievable ability to play with pace and can dominate games in the pNr, both in scoring and distributing. Both have killer mid range games but Fultz seems like he would be better off ball and spotting up. I don't know who to compare Ball to. I just absolutely love his feel for the game and the way he elevates his teammates. I just don't know if his form/first step will translate, and it will probably be pretty evident even in his rookie year. I don't think I have really seen anyone who he really reminds me of.

Right handed Harden is a good comparison too with their herky jerky play. Regardless, I am very excited to watch both.

 

[NielsisGood]

I think Fultz could be prime Brandon Roy with better range. They both have an unbelievable ability to play with pace and can dominate games in the pNr, both in scoring and distributing. Both have killer mid range games but Fultz seems like he would be better off ball and spotting up. I don't know who to compare Ball to. I just absolutely love his feel for the game and the way he elevates his teammates. I just don't know if his form/first step will translate, and it will probably be pretty evident even in his rookie year. I don't think I have really seen anyone who he really reminds me of.

Right handed Harden is a good comparison too with their herky jerky play. Regardless, I am very excited to watch both.

What I'm about to say is entirely stupid and pretty tongue in cheek, but I can't remember a non 7-footer that's as ugly and with as bad a name as Markelle Fultz being a legit stud NBA player. Ball is also rough looking but has an awesome name.


Seriously though I think Fultz is pretty much a lock to be a perennial all star, whether that means he's a serious MVP level guy or a 2nd tier guy I'm not sure. I don't really love Ball for probably the same reasons I don't like Cp3 as much as you do, and I definitely worry about his form, defense, and the way he kind of got spooked out of the game by Fox in their S16 matchup.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I would trade the pick. I am not negative on any of these players, but I am not super excited about any of them. None of these players will contribute immediately, and by the time they are ready to be stars, their rookie contracts will be close to finished.

 

[intlzncster]

I would trade the pick. I am not negative on any of these players, but I am not super excited about any of them. None of these players will contribute immediately, and by the time they are ready to be stars, their rookie contracts will be close to finished.

Really? Fultz has NBA ready game right now. May not be ready to run a team full time, but very few PGs are right out the gate. And as others are saying, you ain't beating Lebron in the next year or two.

 

[tzznandrew]

If they don't think Fultz or Ball is the best player in the draft, trade with the 76ers and grab that player (Jackson? Tatum?). No harm.

But you draft who you think is the best player and go from there. Watching LeBron annihilate them it's blindingly obvious you can't win a title with IT as your best player (duh, but needs to be reiterated), and so they need to really think about how they go forward with this year's pick, and next year's Nets pick as well. It's a team filled with third and fourth options on a title team, but no first or second, and that's a problem. Between free agency and the drafts they have three actual needs:

• an NBA-sized PG (Fultz?)
• a wing who can create (Haywood? George? Butler? Jackson? Tatum?)
• a rim-protector (??? Mo Bamba???)

If they had those positions, IT could be change of pace, sixth man of the year sort of player anchoring the second team with Crowder and Rozier. Bradley/Smart could start at the 2 with strong defense. Horford as a 4 that can stretch and play solid defense (though not on LeBron). A team constructed like that could compete with the Cavs now, and if they play their cards right and keep these guys young, will be competing for the title when LeBron takes his step back.

 

[Matrim55]

But you draft who you think is the best player and go from there. Watching LeBron annihilate them it's blindingly obvious you can't win a title with IT as your best player (duh, but needs to be reiterated), and so they need to really think about how they go forward with this year's pick, and next year's Nets pick as well.

I don't think it's that complicated – they just keep taking the best player, do what they can to stay near the top of the East, and try to be in prime position when LeBron finally starts to decline in 2020 or so (maybe??).

The only big decisions are about flipping both Thomas & Bradley this summer for more young assets. I don't think it's in the Celtics' best interest to pay either of them what they'll want on the open market next summer, and both would have considerable trade value right now within the league. It'd mean dropping from 53 wins this year to maybe 43 next year, but the goal is to be ready to win once Father Time beats the Cavs and Dubs. Because nobody else is going to manage it.

 

[TheChamps990411]

I may be crazy and likely wrong but i think Ball isnt going to be a great NBA player. Something about him just seems off and i cant put my finger on it.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Sign Fultz let IT walk pay Drummond $$$$$

 

[NielsisGood]

I don't think it's that complicated – they just keep taking the best player, do what they can to stay near the top of the East, and try to be in prime position when LeBron finally starts to decline in 2020 or so (maybe??).

The only big decisions are about flipping both Thomas & Bradley this summer for more young assets. I don't think it's in the Celtics' best interest to pay either of them what they'll want on the open market next summer, and both would have considerable trade value right now within the league. It'd mean dropping from 53 wins this year to maybe 43 next year, but the goal is to be ready to win once Father Time beats the Cavs and Dubs. Because nobody else is going to manage it.

Highly doubtful any team gives up any real assets for IT/Bradley in their walk years. Celts need to max IT for culture reasons and to keep their precarious spot as a budding FA destination going forward. There's literally 0 downside to maxing IT if you assume LeBron runs the east for another 3-4 years or so, even without considering IT vs Hayward or franchise culture. It's extremely unlikely that maxing IT would be the sole reason the Celts aren't able to sign RWB or any other premium player over the next couple years anyways.

 

[Matrim55]

Highly doubtful any team gives up any real assets for IT/Bradley in their walk years. Celts need to max IT for culture reasons and to keep their precarious spot as a budding FA destination going forward. There's literally 0 downside to maxing IT if you assume LeBron runs the east for another 3-4 years or so, even without considering IT vs Hayward or franchise culture. It's extremely unlikely that maxing IT would be the sole reason the Celts aren't able to sign RWB or any other premium player over the next couple years anyways.

I don't disagree all that much with this take, and you make a good point re: "culture" and keeping IT. But it's hyperbolic to say there's no downside to maxing him, since if they do that they'll have him on like $35m/year when he's 34.

History shows small guards don't age well enough to justify that IMO.

As for Bradley, I'm sure somebody would trade for him even in his walk year. It's still one year of an extraordinarily good contract, and then pole position negotiating the next one.

 

[husky429]

Sign Fultz let IT walk pay Drummond $$$$$

I can't see many teams wanting to pay Drummond right now. He just wasn't that good this year at all. I didn't watch enough games to know why, but he regressed significantly

 

[NielsisGood]

I don't disagree all that much with this take, and you make a good point re: "culture" and keeping IT. But it's hyperbolic to say there's no downside to maxing him, since if they do that they'll have him on like $35m/year when he's 34.

History shows small guards don't age well enough to justify that IMO.

As for Bradley, I'm sure somebody would trade for him even in his walk year. It's still one year of an extraordinarily good contract, and then pole position negotiating the next one.

Isaiah will be 29 by the time he's a free agent. He wouldn't be 34 until the end of any max deal. The dollar figure there doesn't really even matter since they can spend up as much as they'd like to retain their own players. The only reason not to max IT would be if Ainge has strong reason to believe that Durant opts out to come to Boston or if another superstar specifically targets Boston as a destination, but even then IT is so cheap now that merely getting rid of him isn't going to blow open their cap situation. Otherwise, they'll probably be in the final year of any IT contract by the time the LeBron era is over.


I also do really like Bradley, but he's an above average starter on a good team. He's not a star or somebody you build a franchise around. I don't see how any team gives up anything of real consequence to lock down negotiating rights to a guy like that.

 

[JSM1970]

Let's assume C's sign Hayward and then draft Fultz.

Good chance to get an elite big next year with the Nets pick

Let IT walk or trade him for something and move Jae too

Also, no idea with Zizic, Nader and French Draymond and 3 #2 this year to draft some Euro stashes

2017-18

Fultz
AB
Hayward
AL
Zizic?

Isaiah will be 29 by the time he's a free agent. He wouldn't be 34 until the end of any max deal. The dollar figure there doesn't really even matter since they can spend up as much as they'd like to retain their own players. The only reason not to max IT would be if Ainge has strong reason to believe that Durant opts out to come to Boston or if another superstar specifically targets Boston as a destination, but even then IT is so cheap now that merely getting rid of him isn't going to blow open their cap situation. Otherwise, they'll probably be in the final year of any IT contract by the time the LeBron era is over.


I also do really like Bradley, but he's an above average starter on a good team. He's not a star or somebody you build a franchise around. I don't see how any team gives up anything of real consequence to lock down negotiating rights to a guy like that.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I can't see many teams wanting to pay Drummond right now. He just wasn't that good this year at all. I didn't watch enough games to know why, but he regressed significantly

14 pts 14 boards suckssss let's keep running Amir Johnson and the corpse of Al Horford out there.

 

[HuskyHawk]

For what it is worth, I think Thomas' hip injury just ended any delibation Ainge may have had. They'll take Fultz.

 

[TheDoggPound]

Celtics will trade the pick

 

[nomar]

I can't see many teams wanting to pay Drummond right now. He just wasn't that good this year at all. I didn't watch enough games to know why, but he regressed significantly

Personally I think he's underrated but that's only because his value is so low right now. He got a lot of criticism for his defense.

 

[JSM1970]

I wouldn't give up much for Drummond right now, maybe Nader, one of this year's #2s and maybe the C's 2018 #1

But they have Zizic, 3 #2s this year to use on Euro stashes and potentially an elite big with Nets 2018

Much rather use $$ on Hayward and take chances one of these bigs' emerges

Personally I think he's underrated but that's only because his value is so low right now. He got a lot of criticism for his defense.

 

[nomar]

I wouldn't give up much for Drummond right now, maybe Nader, one of this year's #2s and maybe the C's 2018 #1

But they have Zizic, 3 #2s this year to use on Euro stashes and potentially an elite big with Nets 2018

Much rather use $$ on Hayward and take chances one of these bigs' emerges

The '18 Brooklyn pick is worth WAYYYYYY more than Dre is.

First off, he had a down year. His value is not anywhere near where it used to be -- when it would've justified a deal like that.

Second, the value of a car is never more high than right before it's driven off the lot -- Bamba or Ayton will have much higher value. While the Celts don't know if they'll be in the top 2, they've got as good a chance as anybody.

The Pistons would fall all over themselves trying to accept Dre-for-BK2018 straight up before the Celts had second thoughts.