OT: Poll--Who are you taking #1 in the draft?

[Matrim55]

Highly doubtful any team gives up any real assets for IT/Bradley in their walk years. Celts need to max IT for culture reasons and to keep their precarious spot as a budding FA destination going forward. There's literally 0 downside to maxing IT if you assume LeBron runs the east for another 3-4 years or so, even without considering IT vs Hayward or franchise culture. It's extremely unlikely that maxing IT would be the sole reason the Celts aren't able to sign RWB or any other premium player over the next couple years anyways.

I don't disagree all that much with this take, and you make a good point re: "culture" and keeping IT. But it's hyperbolic to say there's no downside to maxing him, since if they do that they'll have him on like $35m/year when he's 34.

History shows small guards don't age well enough to justify that IMO.

As for Bradley, I'm sure somebody would trade for him even in his walk year. It's still one year of an extraordinarily good contract, and then pole position negotiating the next one.

 

[husky429]

Sign Fultz let IT walk pay Drummond $$$$$

I can't see many teams wanting to pay Drummond right now. He just wasn't that good this year at all. I didn't watch enough games to know why, but he regressed significantly

 

[NielsisGood]

I don't disagree all that much with this take, and you make a good point re: "culture" and keeping IT. But it's hyperbolic to say there's no downside to maxing him, since if they do that they'll have him on like $35m/year when he's 34.

History shows small guards don't age well enough to justify that IMO.

As for Bradley, I'm sure somebody would trade for him even in his walk year. It's still one year of an extraordinarily good contract, and then pole position negotiating the next one.

Isaiah will be 29 by the time he's a free agent. He wouldn't be 34 until the end of any max deal. The dollar figure there doesn't really even matter since they can spend up as much as they'd like to retain their own players. The only reason not to max IT would be if Ainge has strong reason to believe that Durant opts out to come to Boston or if another superstar specifically targets Boston as a destination, but even then IT is so cheap now that merely getting rid of him isn't going to blow open their cap situation. Otherwise, they'll probably be in the final year of any IT contract by the time the LeBron era is over.


I also do really like Bradley, but he's an above average starter on a good team. He's not a star or somebody you build a franchise around. I don't see how any team gives up anything of real consequence to lock down negotiating rights to a guy like that.

 

[JSM1970]

Let's assume C's sign Hayward and then draft Fultz.

Good chance to get an elite big next year with the Nets pick

Let IT walk or trade him for something and move Jae too

Also, no idea with Zizic, Nader and French Draymond and 3 #2 this year to draft some Euro stashes

2017-18

Fultz
AB
Hayward
AL
Zizic?

Isaiah will be 29 by the time he's a free agent. He wouldn't be 34 until the end of any max deal. The dollar figure there doesn't really even matter since they can spend up as much as they'd like to retain their own players. The only reason not to max IT would be if Ainge has strong reason to believe that Durant opts out to come to Boston or if another superstar specifically targets Boston as a destination, but even then IT is so cheap now that merely getting rid of him isn't going to blow open their cap situation. Otherwise, they'll probably be in the final year of any IT contract by the time the LeBron era is over.


I also do really like Bradley, but he's an above average starter on a good team. He's not a star or somebody you build a franchise around. I don't see how any team gives up anything of real consequence to lock down negotiating rights to a guy like that.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

I can't see many teams wanting to pay Drummond right now. He just wasn't that good this year at all. I didn't watch enough games to know why, but he regressed significantly

14 pts 14 boards suckssss let's keep running Amir Johnson and the corpse of Al Horford out there.

 

[HuskyHawk]

For what it is worth, I think Thomas' hip injury just ended any delibation Ainge may have had. They'll take Fultz.

 

[TheDoggPound]

Celtics will trade the pick

 

[nomar]

I can't see many teams wanting to pay Drummond right now. He just wasn't that good this year at all. I didn't watch enough games to know why, but he regressed significantly

Personally I think he's underrated but that's only because his value is so low right now. He got a lot of criticism for his defense.

 

[JSM1970]

I wouldn't give up much for Drummond right now, maybe Nader, one of this year's #2s and maybe the C's 2018 #1

But they have Zizic, 3 #2s this year to use on Euro stashes and potentially an elite big with Nets 2018

Much rather use $$ on Hayward and take chances one of these bigs' emerges

Personally I think he's underrated but that's only because his value is so low right now. He got a lot of criticism for his defense.

 

[nomar]

I wouldn't give up much for Drummond right now, maybe Nader, one of this year's #2s and maybe the C's 2018 #1

But they have Zizic, 3 #2s this year to use on Euro stashes and potentially an elite big with Nets 2018

Much rather use $$ on Hayward and take chances one of these bigs' emerges

The '18 Brooklyn pick is worth WAYYYYYY more than Dre is.

First off, he had a down year. His value is not anywhere near where it used to be -- when it would've justified a deal like that.

Second, the value of a car is never more high than right before it's driven off the lot -- Bamba or Ayton will have much higher value. While the Celts don't know if they'll be in the top 2, they've got as good a chance as anybody.

The Pistons would fall all over themselves trying to accept Dre-for-BK2018 straight up before the Celts had second thoughts.

 

[JSM1970]

Agree

Not the 2018 Nets pick, no way, maybe the C's #1

Chance for Porter Jr, Bamba or Ayton next year with Nets pick

The '18 Brooklyn pick is worth WAYYYYYY more than Dre is.

First off, he had a down year. His value is not anywhere near where it used to be -- when it would've justified a deal like that.

Second, the value of a car is never more high than right before it's driven off the lot -- Bamba or Ayton will have much higher value. While the Celts don't know if they'll be in the top 2, they've got as good a chance as anybody.

The Pistons would fall all over themselves trying to accept Dre-for-BK2018 straight up before the Celts had second thoughts.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't quite see it with Ball. He'll be really good, but I don't see how he'll be better than Ball. He's like Rondo without the defensive ability, but a bit more shooting (though with a form that is suspect as of now for the NBA).

I mean, watching him get worked by Fox in the tournament this year said something to me.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I've seen a decent case made for trading the pick. The main premise is based on the Celtics wanting to beat LeBron now and not waiting 4 years for a downtick. How many productive years does Horford have left? Is Fultz the difference-maker right now? Does he slip right in to the role as the #1 guy, whereas Lonzo won't as he will be a facilitator and spot-up shooter.

Some say they trade the pick and a piece for a Butler-caliber player.

 

[JSM1970]

I get the concept if they're committed to IT longer term

Move #1 and Crowder for Butler

Don't like it, rather build around Fultz, Hayward, Horford, Rozier, Nets 2018 #1

I've seen a decent case made for trading the pick. The main premise is based on the Celtics wanting to beat LeBron now and not waiting 4 years for a downtick. How many productive years does Horford have left? Is Fultz the difference-maker right now? Does he slip right in to the role as the #1 guy, whereas Lonzo won't as he will be a facilitator and spot-up shooter.

Some say they trade the pick and a piece for a Butler-caliber player.

 

[intlzncster]

I've seen a decent case made for trading the pick. The main premise is based on the Celtics wanting to beat LeBron now and not waiting 4 years for a downtick. How many productive years does Horford have left? Is Fultz the difference-maker right now? Does he slip right in to the role as the #1 guy, whereas Lonzo won't as he will be a facilitator and spot-up shooter.

Some say they trade the pick and a piece for a Butler-caliber player.

Sad as this is, I think trying to beat Lebron right now is a mug's game. C's should be in development mode, Horford's shelf life be damned.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I get the concept if they're committed to IT longer term

Move #1 and Crowder for Butler

Don't like it, rather build around Fultz, Hayward, Horford, Rozier, Nets 2018 #1

Thomas just can't be the ball-dominant guard. He's a shot maker and someone who can shoot or fake and drive from the perimeter to score off a kick-out, or can make the second pass. He's not and can't be expected to be a shot creator; it's physical reality.

That's the main skeptic's point regarding the taking of Fultz; he needs to immediately slip in to the system as the #1 guy and produce like a #1 guy has to. If anyone can make the transition a little easier in the East it's probably Stevens, but the idea is that a Butler could step right in and make the kind of difference that would at least be LeBron's best challenge in the East since he was last in Cleveland.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't quite see it with Ball. He'll be really good, but I don't see how he'll be better than Ball. He's like Rondo without the defensive ability, but a bit more shooting (though with a form that is suspect as of now for the NBA).

I mean, watching him get worked by Fox in the tournament this year said something to me.

Are you saying you don't see Ball better than Fultz? Agreed. I don't think Ball is as good as Fox. Fox impressed me as a one and done at Kentucky, playing very high level defense and still being well above average as a scorer and facilitator.

 

[boog204]

Are you saying you don't see Ball better than Fultz? Agreed. I don't think Ball is as good as Fox. Fox impressed me as a one and done at Kentucky, playing very high level defense and still being well above average as a scorer and facilitator.

I'm with you there... I haven't seen much of Fultz so I'll defer to everyone who raves. But to me, Fox is the better prospect over Ball. I think Ball's bust potential is very high. Fox is going to be a real nice player once he fills out and hones the jumper. But just his speed and athleticism alone will make him a factor.

 

[intlzncster]

Are you saying you don't see Ball better than Fultz? Agreed. I don't think Ball is as good as Fox. Fox impressed me as a one and done at Kentucky, playing very high level defense and still being well above average as a scorer and facilitator.

Yes. I mistyped. I wasn't trying to say Ball was going to be an average player either. It's just that you don't often see a great player get so exposed like that in a big spot in college. It happens of course, but to me, it says he's gonna need some work. I did watch some other games and was impressed at times, but there's def holes right now.

Not sure on Ball vs Fox. Love his game and moxie, not sure about his size. Dude is thin. But he's young, so we'll see.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yes. I mistyped. I wasn't trying to say Ball was going to be an average player either. It's just that you don't often see a great player get so exposed like that in a big spot in college. It happens of course, but to me, it says he's gonna need some work. I did watch some other games and was impressed at times, but there's def holes right now.

Not sure on Ball vs Fox. Love his game and moxie, not sure about his size. Dude is thin. But he's young, so we'll see.

Any thinner than Curry was coming out?

 

[intlzncster]

Any thinner than Curry was coming out?

Zero idea man. I just know that watching Fox during the tournament, he looked like a twig. And let's be fair here, Curry should not be used as the norm. He's something else.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Fulton wasn't good enough to even get Washington a winning record this year, but people think he will be an nba start next year?

 

[husky429]

Fulton wasn't good enough to even get Washington a winning record this year, but people think he will be an nba start next year?

Personally, I'd love to see him come off the bench for the Celts and play 25 minutes a game or something. I think that's less risky as far as development goes. But he COULD easily be an NBA starter.

He's the kind of guy that is going to translate well to the better spacing and PnR style of the NBA right now. Similar to Simmons. Fultz will also benefit from not being the only option on his team. At UW teams constantly blitzed him off of screens, and tried to run him off the court, since he was the only threat to go off for 30 points if left alone.

He's not a guarantee, obviously, but he has an NBA-style skill set that is farther along than any of the others in this draft right now. His ceiling isn't Lebron James, but his floor seems to be a pretty decent sixth man. Lonzo is an AWESOME player, but GM's worry that the style he plays, lack of burst, and his awkward shot will not translate. It could, but it's less of a guarantee. His floor is low. Someone like Josh Jackson has crazy athleticism, but has the skills of a face-up 4-man right now, and the size of a tall SG. He might have the highest ceiling in the draft, though. His floor is exceptionally low.

 

[SWHuskyFan]

Fultz is the complete package. The sin he committed was to play for a bad coach on a horrible team that plays at a time when no one watches. If this kid played for Duke the whole narrative would be different.

Most scouts rave about him, he's got no weaknesses in his game. He's amazingly polished for an 18 year old, he's big for a point guard with long arms and high level athleticism. He's already got an NBA level jumper and he's good in the PnR game which is so prevalent in the NBA.

All the other prospects have big question marks. To me if they keep the pick and I see no realistic reason they don't, he's far and away the best choice.

The trade possibilities would require the Celtics to add a lot of players to the mix to offset salary. They'd also be giving up years of a relatively low cost player and inheriting a max contract older player in return. The trade is simply not going to happen as it would take an asset that no one would ever trade in return. George and Butler are no where near that level of asset, if that offer ever existed it disappeared after the lottery.

 

[husky429]

Fultz is the complete package. The sin he committed was to play for a bad coach on a horrible team that plays at a time when no one watches. If this kid played for Duke the whole narrative would be different.

Most scouts rave about him, he's got no weaknesses in his game. He's amazingly polished for an 18 year old, he's big for a point guard with long arms and high level athleticism. He's already got an NBA level jumper and he's good in the PnR game which is so prevalent in the NBA.

All the other prospects have big question marks. To me if they keep the pick and I see no realistic reason they don't, he's far and away the best choice.

The trade possibilities would require the Celtics to add a lot of players to the mix to offset salary. They'd also be giving up years of a relatively low cost player and inheriting a max contract older player in return. The trade is simply not going to happen as it would take an asset that no one would ever trade in return. George and Butler are no where near that level of asset, if that offer ever existed it disappeared after the lottery.

I wouldn't say he has NO weaknesses, but I get what you mean.

From what I've seen his perceived weaknesses are some carelessness with the ball, lack of super-elite athleticism. He's not the first down the court, and athletic defenders could give him fits. That lack of first step, and also some effort issues, were part of what made him an iffy defender in college. He got burned pretty often.

Then there's the intagibles: can he lead a team? How will the veterans on a Celtics (I assume) team accept him? Does he have the drive to work to be great? Tough to say.