Yes when I saw the game against the Bengals on Monday night something definitely didn't look right with Peyton. You can play very well at an old age and hit father time the next year. Brett Favre had an amazing season his first year with the Vikings then came back and wasn't the same, it happens.
OT- Peyton
- Thread starter superjohn
- Start date
- Status
Yes when I saw the game against the Bengals on Monday night something definitely didn't look right with Peyton. You can play very well at an old age and hit father time the next year. Brett Favre had an amazing season his first year with the Vikings then came back and wasn't the same, it happens.
OkaForPrez
Really Popular Poster
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2011
- Messages
- 5,234
- Reaction Score
- 27,357
I want Peyton to retire just so he can get in front of a camera on Sunday's. The guy is hilarious.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 7,838
- Reaction Score
- 15,344
Take out all the playoff wins and he is 0-13. Yikes! Can't get much worse than that!
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 7,122
- Reaction Score
- 7,584
Peyton is done and I think he knows it. It isn't just his arm, I think the fire is gone. I don't put too much on number of Super Bowl victories because football is a team game and Peyton had an outstanding career.
Denver has a bunch of free agents who may not return and I think that will factor in his decision to retire.
Denver has a bunch of free agents who may not return and I think that will factor in his decision to retire.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2011
- Messages
- 13,648
- Reaction Score
- 40,404
Do you really want me to outline his playoff failures in greater detail? I surely can and it's not pretty. He's a paper tiger.
.-.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2014
- Messages
- 576
- Reaction Score
- 1,244
Of course, the problem with this logic is that you arrive at the "outstanding career" conclusion without the "team game" concept, right?
That is, you look at his regular season stats, and you think, "wow, this guy is great." But then you look at his abysmal post season choke record and you say, "we can ignore that, it's a team game."
What you've essentially done is credit him individually with his regular season performance and blame his team for his post season performance.
Can't have it both ways.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 10,492
- Reaction Score
- 50,174
Can we please stop this? Manning's rings have much more to do with his consistently dominant offensive lines, defenses, and running games than they did with this mythical "it factor". As a Texans fan, I have watched and hated the Colts for a long time and he did what he did in spite of the team around him for far more of the time. Football is not a one-man game. Teams do not win and lose solely because of the QB's "it factor".
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 4,632
- Reaction Score
- 9,904
Um no, the Giants were LAST in the league in rushing in their last Superbowl year and had the 27th ranked defense. Eli threw 9 TDs and 1 pick in the playoffs and 107 QBR.
But sure Eli won thanks to his "consistently dominant offensive lines, defenses, and running games"
I know this is basketball board, but jeez, try a little harder.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,450
- Reaction Score
- 13,117
He definitely wasn't the only problem those Colts teams had, but he was certainly part of it. The guy just isn't a very good postseason QB.
I don't like basing arguments off one or two stats, but it's impossible to ignore the whole nine one and dones, eight one and dones at home thing. That's a remarkable stat for all the wrong reasons.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 21,611
- Reaction Score
- 51,598
If you don't think some players have an innate ability to step up in pressure situations while others wilt under pressure I'm not sure what you're watching. Look at Cam Newton vs Russell Wilson this weekend.
I'm a Pats fan, both super bowls against the Giants brady walked off that field having given his team the lead late in the gAME. Both times Eli led them back for the win. Once shaking off a sure sack to complete the pass to Tyree. I had dreams about it. Eli is clutch.
I'm a Pats fan, both super bowls against the Giants brady walked off that field having given his team the lead late in the gAME. Both times Eli led them back for the win. Once shaking off a sure sack to complete the pass to Tyree. I had dreams about it. Eli is clutch.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 10,492
- Reaction Score
- 50,174
Russell Wilson is a far superior QB to Cam Newton. It has nothing to do with "it factor", just talent.
.-.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 21,611
- Reaction Score
- 51,598
If you say so. Can Newton is like the prototype QB. 6' 6", with perfect throwing mechanics, and probably runs in the 4.5, range. You want to say Wilson thinks the game better or processes better I agree, but he's. 5'11". Not too many guys like that running NFL teams.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 10,492
- Reaction Score
- 50,174
In '07 they had the 7th ranked D and 4th ranked rushing attack. In the 2011 post season they averaged 117 rushing yards per game and gave up 14 points per game.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 10,492
- Reaction Score
- 50,174
There's so many things wrong with this argument, I don't even know where to start... I'm not talking physical ability, I'm talking talent. Two vastly different things.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 4,632
- Reaction Score
- 9,904
So now we are just using post season stats, ok, that 117 yards was 6th best out of 12 teams in the post season, they were 4th in passing. Eli lead 8 game winning drives that year, 2 in the playoffs.
You can keep trying to spin the numbers anyway you want, but you could not be more wrong about 2011.
2007 the running game and defense was much better then 2011 (however they were 6th in rushing that postseason out of 12), and carried the team more, even though Eli threw only 1 pick all postseason. Oh and New England rushed for more yards a game in 2007 playoffs than the Giants, but I am sure you wont make the same argument for them.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 10,492
- Reaction Score
- 50,174
I'm not saying he's Trent Dilfer but the "it factor" argument is totally overblown, not just for him, but most QBs. You implied that his running game and defense were not good in 2011 but that just wasn't true during the playoffs.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2014
- Messages
- 5,289
- Reaction Score
- 19,755
I'm as big a Giants fan as you're going to find, but any argument that tries to say that Eli Manning is better than Peyton is misguided.
.-.
Eli also had 2 balls that should have been picked on that drive. Most times there is a fine line between hero and goat.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2012
- Messages
- 4,632
- Reaction Score
- 9,904
I do not think anyone is saying that, but as a Giants fan I am more than happy with Eli.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 21,611
- Reaction Score
- 51,598
Oh I no. But he shook it off and delivered. Asante Samuel should have had a pick six.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2011
- Messages
- 10,492
- Reaction Score
- 50,174
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/554667776384589824
Apparently he had a torn quad in his plant leg for the past month.
Apparently he had a torn quad in his plant leg for the past month.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 7,122
- Reaction Score
- 7,584
No, not really. I think Dan Marino was the best passer of all time but he never won anything. Archie Manning was pretty darn good too and I'm sure there are others that don't come to mind. I'm not excusing Peyton's poor playoff record but you have to look at the teams he was playing against in the playoffs vs. the regular season. Did he choke or did his defense put him in a hole too deep and did his OL protect him? Whatever the answer is I agree that he should have won more playoffs than he did. Still, he was a pretty damn good QB.
.-.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2014
- Messages
- 5,289
- Reaction Score
- 19,755
Every time I hear Tony Dungy talk about anything, I'm amazed that Peyton was able to win as much as he did with that clown as a head coach.
Eli isn't consistent like Peyton but he does have the clutch gene that Peyton doesn't have. Sure no one qb has ever won a Super Bowl by himself, but you can't discount what Eli did in both those Super Bowl runs. You can't go by purely the number of points and yards put up those numbers go down in the playoffs. I think it does help to have ugly offensive games during the regular season to see your team battle tested and face some adversity.
07
Eli wins at Dallas, leads the Giants on a gw drive, wins at Lambeau field in -20 degree weather, virtually leads them on a game winning drive 3 times (Tynes misses 2 gw kicks in regulation). In the Super Bowl no one talks about this the 1st drive of the game Eli completes about 3 3rd down conversions, which was huge in keeping Brady and that offense off the field, that drive took almost the whole 1st quarter.
11
Eli was a top 5 qb that year. He outplays Aaron Rodgers in GB in his MVP season when the Packers went 15-1 that year, in SF against that defense he was beaten into the ground, how would Peyton have done against that D, its not always what you do in those games its what you don't do, that game was the defacto Super Bowl that year.
07
Eli wins at Dallas, leads the Giants on a gw drive, wins at Lambeau field in -20 degree weather, virtually leads them on a game winning drive 3 times (Tynes misses 2 gw kicks in regulation). In the Super Bowl no one talks about this the 1st drive of the game Eli completes about 3 3rd down conversions, which was huge in keeping Brady and that offense off the field, that drive took almost the whole 1st quarter.
11
Eli was a top 5 qb that year. He outplays Aaron Rodgers in GB in his MVP season when the Packers went 15-1 that year, in SF against that defense he was beaten into the ground, how would Peyton have done against that D, its not always what you do in those games its what you don't do, that game was the defacto Super Bowl that year.
and the one pick he had in that postseason went off Steve Smith's hands, which was gonna be a 1st down. What is Shabazz final legacy if not for Brimah's 3 point play, you know he grabbed Shabazz miss there.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 7,122
- Reaction Score
- 7,584
So if you were taking over an NFL team , who would you take in their prime, Peyton or Eli?
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
- Messages
- 4,420
- Reaction Score
- 7,727
2015-16 is a very strange spot for the Broncos. They are almost guaranteed to have a better regular season and chance of making the playoffs with Manning, but then its pretty evident his arm strength and age make him unlikely to win in the playoffs. And Manning likely is banged up come playoff time and less effective in cold, without even getting into his playoff record. I think they will dump him because at $20M their chances to win it all with him are too low.
Weird outcome would be for the Giants to sign him and use Peyton as regular season QB and Eli for the postseason!
Weird outcome would be for the Giants to sign him and use Peyton as regular season QB and Eli for the postseason!
Who do you think? I definitely take Peyton. I would take the guarantee though 2 superbowls and a bunch of inconsistent seasons over making the playoffs every year and winning 1 Super Bowl, I would rather miss the playoffs then go 12-4,13-3,14-2 every year and lose 1st game of the playoffs.
If I don't know the future, because you never know its sports especially single elimination, then I take Peyton. How about this I take Peyton in the regular season and have Eli play in the playoffs. If I know the future I take the 2 superbowls any day. Its better to make the playoffs then not making it but it definitely feels worse to lose the 1st game of the playoffs with a top seed then to miss the playoffs.
.-.
- Status