OT- Pete Carroll

[Deadrody]

I thought it was a defensible call, to be honest, and his explanation makes sense - you're not going to be able to run three straight times in that spot, so you might as well throw while their run-heavy group is in there, knowing you can come back to Lynch on third and fourth down. It isn't Carroll's fault that a quarterback who never throws interceptions threw one at the worst possible time.

Indeed. And I've now seen a stat that the Seahawks gave Lynch the ball at the 1 yard line 5 times this season and he only scored once. So its not inconceivable that, facing the Patriots goal line package, and their history with obvious running plays from teh 1 yard line, it makes sense.

Fact is, that was a GREAT play by Butler. Its not like it was a badly thrown pass or something.

 

[jibsey]

Indeed. And I've now seen a stat that the Seahawks gave Lynch the ball at the 1 yard line 5 times this season and he only scored once. So its not inconceivable that, facing the Patriots goal line package, and their history with obvious running plays from teh 1 yard line, it makes sense.

Fact is, that was a GREAT play by Butler. Its not like it was a badly thrown pass or something.

They had 3 cracks at 1 yard.

 

[Deepster]

Carroll's explanation made perfect sense to me.

They couldn't run the ball 3 times from the 1. They had 1 timeout left. If the pass falls incomplete, the clock stops. They can run it on 3rd and if they don't get in, they call a timeout and likely run it on 4th. Butler made an all time great play on it.

The big gaff was being disjointed after the freak catch by Kearse. They let way too much time elapse and went from over 1:00 left there to like 25 seconds before that final play.

 

[nomar]

They had 3 cracks at 1 yard.

And if we're looking at statistics, the Seahawks are great at short-yardage offense and the Pats are bad at short-yardage defense. This isn't really hindsight -- wasn't everyone yelling when they saw Wilson go back to pass? You win or lose with Marshawn Lynch there.

You don't win or lose with your crappy WRs. As good a play Butler made, Lockette screwed it up by getting beat to the ball by a smaller guy who didn't know the play call beforehand but did a pretty good recognizing it right away.

Seattle over-thought the clock situation when they should have worried about getting the ball in the end zone. (I thought it was crazy when Bradshaw tried not to get in. Crazy. Take the points.) Had they gotten a play off earlier, they could have run it three times, easy. It was Belichick who really should have been concerned with the clock and lord knows what he was thinking in letting the clock run down. That was indefensible as well. All in all, some horrific coaching by good coaching staffs.

 

[dtrumpet]

I thought it was a defensible call, to be honest, and his explanation makes sense - you're not going to be able to run three straight times in that spot, so you might as well throw while their run-heavy group is in there, knowing you can come back to Lynch on third and fourth down. It isn't Carroll's fault that a quarterback who never throws interceptions threw one at the worst possible time.

Never throws interceptions? Did you see the Packer game?
If you want to call pass play instead of 3 straight runs, fine, but not that one. Call a fade, or run the route the pats ran to score, a play where the ball is either caught or incomplete, not picked.
The read option, or a play action bootleg run/pass takes advantage of what Wilson does best, which is move. Can you imagine how hard the defense would have crashed the line on a Lynch fake? Wilson would have had maybe one guy to beat to the endzone.

 

[junglehusky]

Anyway... I'm looking forward to Mark Emmert vacating the Deflatriots championship and giving it to the Colts. Belicheat gets a show-cause penalty.

(That's how it works in the NFL right?)

 

[superjohn]

Carroll's explanation makes him look even more ridiculous than I could have imagined. Instead of all the blabbing and nonsensical rationalizations his interview should have been three words, "I'm an idiot."

 

[Adios]

It was Belichick who really should have been concerned with the clock and lord knows what he was thinking in letting the clock run down. That was indefensible as well. All in all, some horrific coaching by good coaching staffs.

Belichick created a panic on the Seattle sideline.

 

[tzznandrew]

Belichick created a panic on the Seattle sideline.

Yeah. I think they were expecting the Patriots to use a TO once they didn't.

 

[jibsey]

From what I understand the offensive coordinator's call goes through both the head coach's and quarterback's headset. Pete and Wilson just let it go. Time is tight and they let it go. Wilson followed orders. No one is going to throw anyone under the bus at this stage. Seattle had numerous opportunities to pressure or stop Brady in the second half but they didn't, but the idiocy of the call can't be disputed or explained.

 

[Dribbles]

The last minute was just a whorehouse of bad coaching, but that call on the goal line....wow.

Previously, I used to think Joe Torre leaving Jeff Weaver in the game in the 12th inning of the WS in 2003 was about as dumb a sports gaff as I could imagine. Maybe Bill Shoemaker standing up early and losing a Derby is in the mix....but not anymore.

Pete Carroll will never sleep again thinking about that play.

Marshawn was heard speaking to the press: "Does anyone know why I'm here?"

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Won me the $1500 in the UConn-Syracuse squares! So I can't complain about his stupid decision

Favorite post on this subject. Congrats.

 

[jibsey]

It doesn't matter how many times Lynch failed to get in during the season when it didn't mean as much, this is the Super Bowl and he gained 4 yards on the previous play. Nothing keeping him out with at least 2 tries in that situation. Wilson rolling out from a running set would be the second play with Wilson scoring or passing so there were numerous choices. Pats are lucky for now until they find more tapes of the equipment guy going into and locking the bathroom before other games while carrying their footballs. I just started taking my football to the bathroom.

 

[tzznandrew]

It doesn't matter how many times Lynch failed to get in during the season when it didn't mean as much, this is the Super Bowl and he gained 4 yards on the previous play. Nothing keeping him out with at least 2 tries in that situation.

To be fair, that is really easy to say in the abstract, when we can never really know. You can say this as if it were a fact, and we can accept it as if it were...but it's not.

Carroll was playing to win the game, not score the touchdown (in that he'd rather get 4 plays in that time rather than 3...or, rather, that he'd rather have the opportunity to run whatever he wanted instead of being forced into passes). It failed. But it failed on an unbelievable play that happens 1-2% of the time.

Not the best call, but not indefensible, especially since he doesn't get to live in that alternate world where Lynch scores 100% of the time in those 2 runs.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

To be fair, that is really easy to say in the abstract, when we can never really know. You can say this as if it were a fact, and we can accept it as if it were...but it's not.

Carroll was playing to win the game, not score the touchdown (in that he'd rather get 4 plays in that time rather than 3...or, rather, that he'd rather have the opportunity to run whatever he wanted instead of being forced into passes). It failed. But it failed on an unbelievable play that happens 1-2% of the time.

Not the best call, but not indefensible, especially since he doesn't get to live in that alternate world where Lynch scores 100% of the time in those 2 runs.

If he called a qb rollout or a back endzone fade and Wilson just made a terrible decision and threw a horrible pick then fine. It's not necessarily the decision to pass that was so horrific (although i still think it was dumb).

It was the fact that they decided to throw a laser pass into a congested pack of about six guys. It could've easily bounced off anyone straight into the air for a pick. Or been tipped at the line for a pick. Or easily dropped by their fourth wide receiver. You really can't draw up a riskier passing play there. And all of this ignores the fact that they have the toughest back in the league whose nickname is Beast Mode and who has been bowling guys over all game.

I can not believe people are trying to justify that call.

It was the dumbest coaching decision of all time.

 

[upstater]

If he called a qb rollout or a back endzone fade and Wilson just made a terrible decision and threw a horrible pick then fine. It's not necessarily the decision to pass that was so horrific (although i still think it was dumb).

It was the fact that they decided to throw a laser pass into a congested pack of about six guys. It could've easily bounced off anyone straight into the air for a pick. Or been tipped at the line for a pick. Or easily dropped by their fourth wide receiver. You really can't draw up a riskier passing play there. And all of this ignores the fact that they have the toughest back in the league whose nickname is Beast Mode and who has been bowling guys over all game.

I can not believe people are trying to justify that call.

It was the dumbest coaching decision of all time.

They are not calling read options there. Too dangerous.

Run it up the gut, your best bet.

If you throw, go into shotgun.

But read option? With the defense so close to the line, Wilson risks someone getting him for a 4 yard loss.

3rd and 5 and no timeouts. This is why you run it there 2 out of 3 times. With only one timeout, you have to pass it once.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Yeah. I think they were expecting the Patriots to use a TO once they didn't.

I think Patricia basically said as much after the game. They wanted to put the onus on Seattle to manage the clock and not bail them out with a timeout, load up the line and dare them to throw. You could see that slant coming a mile away. Browner did a great job jamming Kearse and the kid Butler just made an unbelievable play. I don't think Wilson had any sense that Butler could close the space that quickly. Probably didn't help that he put the ball face-high.

 

[tzznandrew]

If he called a qb rollout or a back endzone fade and Wilson just made a terrible decision and threw a horrible pick then fine. It's not necessarily the decision to pass that was so horrific (although i still think it was dumb).

It was the fact that they decided to throw a laser pass into a congested pack of about six guys. It could've easily bounced off anyone straight into the air for a pick. Or been tipped at the line for a pick. Or easily dropped by their fourth wide receiver. You really can't draw up a riskier passing play there. And all of this ignores the fact that they have the toughest back in the league whose nickname is Beast Mode and who has been bowling guys over all game.

I can not believe people are trying to justify that call.

It was the dumbest coaching decision of all time.

Passes from the 1 had been intercepted exactly 0 times this season before that play. And historically, it's 1-2%. Their plan avoided potential sack, and 98% of the time it results in either a TD or an incomplete (that serves as the TO they need to run it twice).

So, yeah. Once again--I wouldn't call that play. But it is thoughtless, absurd hyperbole to call it "worst call ever."

 

[noeynox]

It's the worst call when taken into context that you have Marshawn Lynch and your on the one yard line. I highly doubt Pete was considering the stats you posted on passes from the one yard line, when he opted to not give the ball to a rb that all night long was falling forward for an extra yard or two when it looked like should have been stopped.

 

[Uconn77Duke74]

If he called a qb rollout or a back endzone fade and Wilson just made a terrible decision and threw a horrible pick then fine. It's not necessarily the decision to pass that was so horrific (although i still think it was dumb).

It was the fact that they decided to throw a laser pass into a congested pack of about six guys. It could've easily bounced off anyone straight into the air for a pick. Or been tipped at the line for a pick. Or easily dropped by their fourth wide receiver. You really can't draw up a riskier passing play there. And all of this ignores the fact that they have the toughest back in the league whose nickname is Beast Mode and who has been bowling guys over all game.

I can not believe people are trying to justify that call.

It was the dumbest coaching decision of all time.

I don't see Seattle risking a sack and potential loss of yardage by dropping Wilson back or rolling him out. If the pass wasn't there he should have just thrown it away.

 

[Deepster]

Passes from the 1 had been intercepted exactly 0 times this season before that play. And historically, it's 1-2%. Their plan avoided potential sack, and 98% of the time it results in either a TD or an incomplete (that serves as the TO they need to run it twice).

So, yeah. Once again--I wouldn't call that play. But it is thoughtless, absurd hyperbole to call it "worst call ever."

Eh, it's easy and lazy to pile on the thoughtless "It's the worst call ever" bandwagon. I'm sure every water cooler in America had the same conversation yesterday.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Carroll's explanation made perfect sense to me.

They couldn't run the ball 3 times from the 1. They had 1 timeout left. If the pass falls incomplete, the clock stops. They can run it on 3rd and if they don't get in, they call a timeout and likely run it on 4th. Butler made an all time great play on it.

The big gaff was being disjointed after the freak catch by Kearse. They let way too much time elapse and went from over 1:00 left there to like 25 seconds before that final play.

This. Should have been obvious that a throw in that situation was appropriate. Then with the timeout they get two more runs. Russell Wilson should have made sure that the pass was either un-catchable by anyone or that it was a sure TD. Carrol made the right decision, Wilson did not. Put the blame where it belongs, or the credit, as it was a great defensive play by Butler.

 

[tzznandrew]

I don't see Seattle risking a sack and potential loss of yardage by dropping Wilson back or rolling him out. If the pass wasn't there he should have just thrown it away.

Right, except when you see the field from the minute his arm begins to move, Lockette looks wide open.

Butler has already made the read, but it was only because Butler and the Patriots had specifically planned for that play that he was able to recognize it. And it is still unbelievable that he got there on time.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

They are not calling read options there. Too dangerous.

Run it up the gut, your best bet.

If you throw, go into shotgun.

But read option? With the defense so close to the line, Wilson risks someone getting him for a 4 yard loss.

3rd and 5 and no timeouts. This is why you run it there 2 out of 3 times. With only one timeout, you have to pass it once.

Remind me where I said anything about a read option...

I said qb rollout. Wilson lines up under center and immediately sprints right. The tight end can roll out to the corner too. Wilson can run it in (very possible), throw a much safer throw, or throw it away.

At least if he lines up under center, the pats could be thinking run. Instead he lined up in shotgun and it was obvious it was going to be a pass. Heck even have him do the rollout from shotgun if you want to protect against a sack. Then he has a few seconds to make a decision and throw it away if he has to.

None of this involves the read option, which i never even hinted at.

Also, I said it the first time, it wasn't necessarily the decision to pass that was so egregious. IT WAS THE PASS THAT THEY CALLED. Although I'm still pretty certain that if they run Lynch he gets in one of two times. The pats do after all have the second worst run stuffing d in the league.

How can anyone think that calling a play that requires the qb to throw a missile into a congested group of people is a good decision at that point?? Its insanity that people are defending that play call. Not the decision to pass, but the actual pass they drew up.

The pass was intercepted and it wasn't even a bad pass or decision by Wilson. He executed the play and put the ball what would've been on the money. That in and of itself should make it clear that it was a terrible play call.

 

[selles]

This. Should have been obvious that a throw in that situation was appropriate. Then with the timeout they get two more runs. Russell Wilson should have made sure that the pass was either un-catchable by anyone or that it was a sure TD. Carrol made the right decision, Wilson did not. Put the blame where it belongs, or the credit, as it was a great defensive play by Butler.

This. Sometimes a team loses not because they screwed up, but because a guy on the other team makes an incredible play. It's not like a pick play on the goal-line is an unusual call. It was fine here, especially given the timeout situation. Wilson's pass wasn't terrible either, maybe a tad high but he led his receiver into the end zone like you're supposed to.

It was just a brilliant play by Butler. He made an exceptionally fast read, and the speed and power of his break was even more exceptional. Most guys in his position wouldn't make the immediate, all-out commitment to the break that Butler did - because if Wilson sees him and holds the ball, there's a good chance his man comes off the pick and catches a floater in the corner of the end zone. Then Butler's the goat. So most guys in Butler's spot would have hesitated for an instant, and in that hesitation the game would have been lost.

The guy made an amazing play, especially given what was on the line. It's a shame there's not more focus on that instead of what Seattle did or didn't do.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Passes from the 1 had been intercepted exactly 0 times this season before that play. And historically, it's 1-2%. Their plan avoided potential sack, and 98% of the time it results in either a TD or an incomplete (that serves as the TO they need to run it twice).

So, yeah. Once again--I wouldn't call that play. But it is thoughtless, absurd hyperbole to call it "worst call ever."

BS that 98% of the time that pass results in a TD or incomplete pass. They threw a missile into traffic to a guy who had exactly 18 career catches. Is it even likely he would've caught that? Just as easily couldve bounced right off his chest or hands for a pick.

And the pats have the second worse run defense in the league. And seattle the best run game in the league and best power back int he league. We can throw stats at it all day.

Every single person watching had the exact same reaction. "Why the hell did they call a pass?". Thats 114 million people. Upon closer examination, it was determined that its not necessarily the decision to pass, but the pass they called that was outrageous.

That has to be one of the riskiest passing plays in their playbook as far as likelihood of a turnover. It could've gotten jumped (which it did) or tipped at the line for a pick, or tipped by the back for a pick, or bounced off the receivers chest for a pick. Certainly Seattle has about 50 other passing plays that are much safer.

They were on the 1 yard line in the Super Bowl with 20 seconds to go and a timeout with the best running back in the league who has been bowling over the Pats all game and they threw a rocket pass into a group of four guys to a receiver with 18 career catches.

Its the worst decision ever. Name me a worse one.

 

[Husky25]

Right, except when you see the field from the minute his arm begins to move, Lockette looks wide open.

Butler has already made the read, but it was only because Butler and the Patriots had specifically planned for that play that he was able to recognize it. And it is still unbelievable that he got there on time.

Kearse is blocking before the ball is thrown. The Patriots were called on that earlier in the half.

 

[Dogdeacon]

You just can't evaluate the quality of the decision based solely on the outcome. The stats say turnover risk via a pass was statistically insignificant vs a run. And that Lynch hadn't been that effective in 1yd situations*. I think if Collinsworth hadn't been rooting for the Hawks and gone so crazy over the call instead of the great defensive play the narrative on this would be flipped. Not to say there should be no questioning of the play calling, but it should be at least 50-50 bad call phenomenal defense. If Butler isn't prepared and doesn't make a GREAT play there no one says boo, it is only because the guy made a play that the decision is retroactively so over-the-top horrible.

Facts are Butler made a 1/100 play in the most crucial moment of the biggest game of the American sports year and everyone is bitching about play calling. Why?

*Almost no one cites the Pats subpar stats against the run as the 'best' reason to go with Lynch there, that's the lone argument I see on second guessing the play call but even then the venom currently in play is way over the top.

 

[superjohn]

It's amazing that any people are saying it was a decent call, throwing it from 1 yard out into the congested middle of the field is the dumbest possible thing you could do in that situation and it somehow becomes even dumber when you have the best back in the league and the best running qb in the league. You win or lose with your best option and if miraculously the Pats stop you three straight times at the goaline you tip your cap to them for stopping you with your best. Carroll's explanation makes the call seem even more ludicrous, he called that play to waste a play, are you freaking kidding me.

 

[tzznandrew]

BS that 98% of the time that pass results in a TD or incomplete pass. They threw a missile into traffic to a guy who had exactly 18 career catches. Is it even likely he would've caught that? Just as easily couldve bounced right off his chest or hands for a pick.

Its the worst decision ever. Name me a worse one.

I'm giving you actual facts. I don't have the stats to show whether a slant is more likely to cause an interception or not.

On the goal-line passes are rarely intercepted, and if you look at the picture there's literally no one else there. Everyone keeps talking about how congested it was, but it really wasn't at all. Kearse is blocking, and the safety is far away. Butler is the only player, besides Lockette, that had a chance on the ball. He got there first.

The Seahawks figured--and 98% of the time stats show they'd be right--that they get a TD or an incomplete, and then could run it with Lynch.

You can talk about how the Pats had one of the worst goalline run defenses. That's fine. But you also have to acknowledge Lynch had been 1 for 5 in those situations. And, as unstoppable as he had been, he had gotten stuffed when the Pats knew the rush was coming.

I don't like the decision. A fade to the corner would have been better. But the only reason people are up in arms is that the incredibly-rare worst case scenario happened. Otherwise, it's just an incomplete and they get two goalline runs with Lynch.

As for naming you a worse decision, I'm not going to go through a million, but statistically Mike McCarthy made like 50 two weeks ago.