OT: Pats-Colts

[tzznandrew]

I'm not a Patriots fan. I think this "Deflate-gate" is absurdly overblown.

But can we just admit that the Patriots broke the rules. It didn't affect the outcome. It's overblown. But it happened.

It doesn't particularly matter that other teams may have done it.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Speaking of the Jets, "spy gate" is nothing more than a device fans of teams like the Jets use to tell themselves that if their team cheated like the Pats did they'd be successful too but they do things the "right way."

We Giants fans on the other hand just laugh at the Patriots that much harder

Pats are like UK: pretty dominant overall, but you know some shady got them there, and their fans are the second most obnoxious and egregious fans in the respective sport (New England is second to Filthadelphia, UK second to Cuse)
Giants are like UConn: not nearly consistently dominant season-to-season, but every now and then you put good years together and make things happen at the right time

 

[upstater]

I don't really care who wins in the NFL but if UConn could win a game by letting the air out of the ball I'd volunteer to deflate myself.

Then I'd call Feinbaum, and after explaining to him who UConn is I'd brag about it.

Having been through Spygate, it doesn't work that way. Goodell is an idiot.

 

[upstater]

We Giants fans on the other hand just laugh at the Patriots that much harder

Pats are like UK: pretty dominant overall, but you know some shady got them there, and their fans are the second most obnoxious and egregious fans in the respective sport (New England is second to Filthadelphia, UK second to Cuse)
Giants are like UConn: not nearly consistently dominant season-to-season, but every now and then you put good years together and make things happen at the right time

Don't forget, the Giants are shady.

 

[whaler11]

Having been through Spygate, it doesn't work that way. Goodell is an idiot.

Oh so your passionate defense on the Boneyard is going to sway Goddell. Now I understand.

 

[zyron]

Don't forget, the Giants are shady.

Just because you keep making things up (Parcells taping), doesn't make them true.

 

[David 76]

I think a psi of 12.5 minus 2 psiis a 16% drop in pressure, Significant.

This is like Dick Nixon breaking the law to fix an election he won by a landslide. Totally unnecessary. But that is totally irrelevant. Rules are the boundaries for competition. When you break them it is cheating whether it affects outcomes or not. Whether you think the rule is stupid or not. (Some of you sound like teens when dealing with a consequence to a rule they find inconvenient)
So it looks like the Pats broke the rules again regardless of the fact that they din't need to. And I'll risk my life here to say, it also doesn't matter if Nate Miles ever played or not. Outcome is irrelevant as is screaming "All the other kids do it and they don't get punished!"

 

[jleves]

I never said those teams were cheating. I said they were manipulating the ball beyond guidelines. And, it's not me saying it, it's the guy manipulating the ball beyond guidelines.

First of all, I don't really care a rats ass that the balls were under inflated. But how the hell do you draw a distinction between 'cheating' and 'manipulating the ball beyond the guidelines'? Just because you made up a new term for cheating does not mean it's not cheating.

This is actually one of the most amazing justifications I've ever seen on the boneyard topping 'See I told you they would get hammered with sanctions' only after the APR came about having nothing to do with the recruiting violations and 'Stanley does not have Big East athleticism' because he didn't have a great handle.

 

[jleves]

I'm not a Patriots fan so much as I love watching history being made.
This stuff is awesome.

I'm right there with you on this - I love history being made: Ray Allen breaking the three point record and hopefully getting over 3000 threes (this has to happen soon), UConn women breaking the consecutive win record (only time I watched womens bball outside the really big games), college running backs breaking single game rushing records twice this year, Peyton breaking the yardage record and TD records. I love watching records getting beat and new 'unbeatable' records being established. I really like seeing history being made and remade.

 

[upstater]

First of all, I don't really care a rats ass that the balls were under inflated. But how the hell do you draw a distinction between 'cheating' and 'manipulating the ball beyond the guidelines'? Just because you made up a new term for cheating does not mean it's not cheating.

This is actually one of the most amazing justifications I've ever seen on the boneyard topping 'See I told you they would get hammered with sanctions' only after the APR came about having nothing to do with the recruiting violations and 'Stanley does not have Big East athleticism' because he didn't have a great handle.

Because the guys manipulating the balls then give them to the referees who more than often don't bother to adjust the balls. So for Aaron Rodgers to say he takes the ball outside the guidelines because he knows the NFL refs will not adjust the ball most of the time. That's not cheating if he's taking advantage of the refs wide latitude.

There are lots of rules out there. If you think people aren't falling afoul of them in similar fashion all the time, I don't know what to tell you. I don't get hung up either on this when Calhoun gets accused of cheating for too many phone calls, esp. since at the end of the day, they were just a few over their allotment.

 

[Robertelamin]

Are you an attorney? Oh my god shut up already.

 

[upstater]

I think a psi of 12.5 minus 2 psiis a 16% drop in pressure, Significant.

It's not 16%. Pressure isn't weight. The road from 13.5 to 0 is asymptotic. The physics guy in the Globe had to use a formula to figure out that it's a 7% loss. ESPN's sports Science did a study, and the weight difference is that of a dollar bill, while the water gain from all the rain was 10x that.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:12207314

 

[upstater]

Are you an attorney? Oh my god shut up already.

I hate lawyers too. Pfffft

 

[upstater]

Just because you keep making things up (Parcells taping), doesn't make them true.

So you're denying what Coughlin admitted in the article?

 

[upstater]

Oh so your passionate defense on the Boneyard is going to sway Goddell. Now I understand.

Say wha?

 

[jleves]

Because the guys manipulating the balls then give them to the referees who more than often don't bother to adjust the balls. So for Aaron Rodgers to say he takes the ball outside the guidelines because he knows the NFL refs will not adjust the ball most of the time. That's not cheating if he's taking advantage of the refs wide latitude.

There are lots of rules out there. If you think people aren't falling afoul of them in similar fashion all the time, I don't know what to tell you. I don't get hung up either on this when Calhoun gets accused of cheating for too many phone calls, esp. since at the end of the day, they were just a few over their allotment.

So the essence of your argument is that you aren't cheating if someone doesn't call you on it or correct it. You're just taking advantage of neglect. Got it.

That also means you aren't speeding if they don't pull you over even if you're doing 70 on the freeway.

You are speeding and they are cheating. The fact that you aren't getting pulled over and they aren't doing anything about the balls doesn't change the fact.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Because the guys manipulating the balls then give them to the referees who more than often don't bother to adjust the balls. So for Aaron Rodgers to say he takes the ball outside the guidelines because he knows the NFL refs will not adjust the ball most of the time. That's not cheating if he's taking advantage of the refs wide latitude.

That's like saying prostitution isn't really illegal because the cops are relatively laissez-faire about it

 

[zyron]

So you're denying what Coughlin admitted in the article?

That a gate opened somewhere nowhere near the field, down a long tunnel, near the outside of the stadium. Yeah, good one.


If he did this you would have a point:

 

[superjohn]

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if upstater thinks Aaron Hernandez was framed and somehow Goodell and the refs conspired in the killings.

 

[David 76]

It's not 16%. Pressure isn't weight. The road from 13.5 to 0 is asymptotic. The physics guy in the Globe had to use a formula to figure out that it's a 7% loss. ESPN's sports Science did a study, and the weight difference is that of a dollar bill, while the water gain from all the rain was 10x that.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:12207314

Upstater, We are not talking weight differential here. We are talking about it's malleability in the hands of the QB and receiver. The fact that Brady prefers this deflation is a clear indicator that it would be a benefit to him.
But even if it was a disadvantage, it doesn't matter. If they deflated the balls, they are guilty
Normally I enjoy your posts but you should really let go here.They look to have broken a rule, though it is a minor one and did not affect the outcome of the game.
Try telling that to the IRS if you "manipulate your taxes beyond the guidelines" Or tell the state trooper that" a lot of other people were speeding so don't f''en hassle me".
Responsibility for your actions, it's not just for kids

 

[upstater]

Upstater, We are not talking weight differential here. We are talking about it's malleability in the hands of the QB and receiver. The fact that Brady prefers this deflation is a clear indicator that it would be a benefit to him.
But even if it was a disadvantage, it doesn't matter. If they deflated the balls, they are guilty
Normally I enjoy your posts but you should really let go here.They look to have broken a rule, though it is a minor one and did not affect the outcome of the game.
Try telling that to the IRS if you "manipulate your taxes beyond the guidelines" Or tell the state trooper that" a lot of other people were speeding so don't f''en hassle me".
Responsibility for your actions, it's not just for kids

To be clear, I was talking about Rodgers's actions and manipulations. I don't consider that cheating. Yes he went beyond the guideline with his balls, but I wasn't emphasizing that part. The part of what he said that interested me was that the NFL referees were not fastidious in keeping balls inside the guidelines.

In other words, he counted on the refs giving the balls a simple squeeze check so he could play with balls outside the guidelines.

This isn't cheating in my book since the onus is on the NFL and its employees.

 

[upstater]

That a gate opened somewhere nowhere near the field, down a long tunnel, near the outside of the stadium. Yeah, good one.


If he did this you would have a point:

So again, even when your own coach admits it, you're going to say it never happened.

 

[upstater]

That's like saying prostitution isn't really illegal because the cops are relatively laissez-faire about it

There is nothing illegal about overinflating or underinflating the ball. The NFL has no rule against that. The NFL has a rule against tampering with the ball after the refs have given the balls to the NFL employees charged with them during the game.

In your analogy, prostitution is the crime. Not what happens afterward.

 

[upstater]

So the essence of your argument is that you aren't cheating if someone doesn't call you on it or correct it. You're just taking advantage of neglect. Got it.

That also means you aren't speeding if they don't pull you over even if you're doing 70 on the freeway.

You are speeding and they are cheating. The fact that you aren't getting pulled over and they aren't doing anything about the balls doesn't change the fact.

The more I read this stuff the more I become convinced that people haven't read the rules or understood the chain of who controls the balls.

Someone already made this mistake earlier in the thread and I corrected him.

This is not cheating by Aaron Rodgers. Heck, if it were, then why in the world aren't the Packers being investigated? Since this was announced on CBS during the Patriots-Packers game?

The value of this information is that Rodgers said the referees more often then not pass his balls that are beyond the guidelines.

It's the referees' fault then for allowing that. So, no. I don't think Rodgers is cheating.

And the speeding analogy doesn't work because what Rodgers does is not against the rules. It would only be against the rules if he somehow brought a pump onto the field and inflated the ball. That would be a case of speeding.

 

[zyron]

The more I read this stuff the more I become convinced that people haven't read the rules or understood the chain of who controls the balls.

Someone already made this mistake earlier in the thread and I corrected him.

The more I read the more you don't understand:

League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.

Meanwhile, a source told WEEI.com that the Patriots used 12 backup balls for the second half against the Colts after issues were found with most of the originals. Patriots spokesman Stacey James confirmed that the team had 24 balls total available, WEEI reported.


The Patriots controlled the balls after they were tested and approved, then they deflated them.

 

[upstater]

The more I read the more you don't understand:

League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team.

ESPN Sports Radio 810 in Kansas City reported that the Patriots' footballs were tested at the half, reinflated at that time when they were found to be low, then put back in play for the second half, and then tested again after the game. The report did not reveal the results of the test following the game. All of the balls the Colts used met standards, according to the report.

Meanwhile, a source told WEEI.com that the Patriots used 12 backup balls for the second half against the Colts after issues were found with most of the originals. Patriots spokesman Stacey James confirmed that the team had 24 balls total available, WEEI reported.


The Patriots controlled the balls after they were tested and approved, then they deflated them.

Sigh. I was referring to submitting the balls to the referees prior to the game. Submitting balls outside the parameters.

But, there's also a very obvious contradiction in what you just posted. Wonder if you can spot it.

If the NFL had found someone tampering, there'd be no need at all to test the balls at halftime. The whole 11 ball thing would be irrelevant. Given the Glazer report and all the articles about the Colts alerting the NFL in November and the NFL being ready for this after being alerted by Baltimore last week, I'm assuming the NFL or the referees kept an eye on the balls in the first half. In that case, they know who the culprit is already.

And, furthermore, testing the balls at halftime is totally irrelevant since they ave the culprit.

 

[zyron]

Sigh. I was referring to submitting the balls to the referees prior to the game. Submitting balls outside the parameters.

But, there's also a very obvious contradiction in what you just posted. Wonder if you can spot it.

If the NFL had found someone tampering, there'd be no need at all to test the balls at halftime. The whole 11 ball thing would be irrelevant. Given the Glazer report and all the articles about the Colts alerting the NFL in November and the NFL being ready for this after being alerted by Baltimore last week, I'm assuming the NFL or the referees kept an eye on the balls in the first half. In that case, they know who the culprit is already.

And, furthermore, testing the balls at halftime is totally irrelevant since they ave the culprit.

Holy , Rutgersal got nothing on you. You may be the biggest homer, delusional fan of all time. When the Patriots get penalized (Again) maybe you will wake up, but I doubt it.

 

[Gurleyman]

C'mon people back on topic - how does an NFL ref miss a spot by a yard and a half?

 

[David 76]

At this point, continuing to argue logic with Upstater would meet the definition of insanity. Probably true 4 pages ago.

 

[auggie22]

The Aaron Rodgers case is completely different. If you actually listened to what he said he complained how he likes the ball to be over inflated and gets mad because the refs won't allow it and put it back to NFL standard weight. He said he is pretty much the only QB who like an over inflated ball because he likes the grip of it and also said that he understands the rule of not allowing under inflated balls because they have an affect on catching the ball but doesn't understand why he can't overinflate it when it doesn't help you at all

Heard the segment, too. You have it wrong. He said slightly less than half of the quarterbacks prefer it over-inflated as he does. Also it was nonsense he was spouting that there are no advantages to overinflating. He would not prefer the football that way if it wasn't advantageous to the way he throws. You think he does it just to give himself a handicap?

He said the guys with smaller hands prefer them underinflated, and he implied that he has big hands. So I will infer the preference for quarterbacks is closely relAted to the size of there hands.