OT: Pats-Colts

[mcs333]

So the ref's check out the balls at half time and make adjustments to correct the deflated balls and the Pats out score the Colts 28-0. Sounds like the deflated balls hurt the Pats in the first half!

 

[upstater]

So the ref's check out the balls at half time and make adjustments to correct the deflated balls and the Pats out score the Colts 28-0. Sounds like the deflated balls hurt the Pats in the first half!

Actually, the refs don't typically check at halftime.

The refs noticed nothing amiss about the 11 balls during the first half. It was the Indy Colts equipment manager that noticed the balls were underinflated. Which means he was more on top of it than the refs. Personally, having pumped a lot of top level soccer balls in the last 6 months ($150 Nike Incytes), I'm impressed that anyone could tell the difference between 12.5 PSI and 11 PSI.

 

[mcs333]

The ref's checked out the balls after the Colts brought it to their attention at halftime. Not a point that was mentioned in a lot of the media coverage.

 

[Cheeky]

I find this whole thing fascinating on so many levels.

1. What a stupid set of rules. What genius came up with the idea of letting teams provide their own balls in the first place? If new balls suck, then figure out a way to pre-work/scuff them or whatever, or just make a better new ball.

2. Are 24 balls really needed? Why? How about 6 balls that the refs bring only the refs touch during non-playing time? Hire some guy, or get an intern, whose job it is to hold the balls on the sideline. Why would you ever have a rule that puts the ball choice in the hands of a team? You're begging for cheating.

3. If the refs were advised at halftime, why weren't the balls flagged before the 2nd half? Do the officials not have access to a pressure gauge? Is this not somebody's job?

4. If ball pressure mattered much, why wouldn't the refs check it at halftime or during breaks? If it is known that teams provide the balls, and that mis inflation could help somebody, why is there no intern with a pressure gauge checking the balls on occasion.

5. How much difference is there in the feel to the ball with the PSI difference detected? There is a lot of speculation as to whether a player could know. What is the real world experience? If you gave two balls to an NFL QB with the PSI difference, and had them throw it, could they tell the difference without squeezing to check for firmness?

6. Did the refs actually check the pressure before the game? I'm guessing no.

7. If the refs didn't check the pressure, then shame on them, and how can it be proven that anything improper was done?

8. If the refs did check the balls, what was the chain of custody after the check? Were the balls then left in the hands of the Patriot ball boy? What's the point of checking the balls 2.5 hours before the game only to then walk away from them? That would be like checking prom kids for alcohol 2 hours before the prom, but not at the door.


9. Most importantly, is there anybody out there other than Colts fans who believe that this changed the outcome of the game?

10. Best yet, are people really going to make an "integrity of the game" argument? With the NFL's incredibly lax PED testing? Come on. The NFL is about money, and this "controversy" or "scandal" is probably the best thing to happen to the SB ratings since the go-daddy ads. Fact is, every marginal fan out there is going to have an opinion on the "cheating," and may tune in just to see those horrible cheaters. Give 'em a black hat, as it were.

THE NFL LOVES THIS - have no doubt about it.

Think about it - the Patriots, from coach to ball boy, are going to give your ZERO press that you can use to drum up interest in the SB. This silliness puts it on the front page of media that the marginal fan reads, and it's not wife-beating or murder.

The Seahawks will give your about 5-10 angry, thuggish, yelling, RayLewisFake-emotion soundbites that probably turn off the marginal viewer and aren't very interesting.

People are commenting that the Commish needs to be replaced. Lord, people, why? Because he is making the owners too much money?

This superbowl is going to set records.

The Commish should get a raise - just to pump up more headlines in the off season.

 

[mauconnfan]

The ref's checked out the balls after the Colts brought it to their attention at halftime. Not a point that was mentioned in a lot of the media coverage.

And there's a problem with the fact the Colts are the one's who caught Billy B cheating again? Talk about denial

 

[Cheeky]

Personally, having pumped a lot . . . balls

I'm not a big "pumped a lot of balls" guy.

 

[UChusky916]

Patriot fans saying that 'the deflated balls didn't matter', you're both right and wrong.

No, the colts were never going to win that game and the deflated balls probably had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome.
Yes, the media is over-hyping this 'story' for attention-grabbing headlines.

But that doesn't justify the fact that Belichick and the Patriots have been consistently bending the rules for YEARS in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE in order to gain a competitive advantage. At some point, it has to stop. Stop trying to take advantage of every nuance in the rule-book and just play the goshdarn game the way it was meant to be played.
2 things for the Patriot fans arguing that the deflated ball accusations don't matter because their team would win anyways:

1. Why do the Pats even need to stoop so low and bend the rules like this if it has no effect on the outcome of the game as you're saying? Why the need to even do something like this? The point is, the Pats are the only ones doing things like this to TRY TO GAIN A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE. This is, in essence, cheating.
2. This is why all teams hate the Patriots fan base... their arrogance and sense of entitlement. 'We were winning that game anyways' reeks of exactly the type of that the Patriots organization has been known for... winning at all costs. Granted, they have a reason to be confident with the success they've had in the past 15 years and for a lot of their fans, winning is all they've known. So they're naturally spoiled and arrogant and don't realize it.

The patriots are the only team that's consistently been in the news for such allegations, one controversy after another. Makes you wonder how many other ways they're bending the rules to gain a competitive advantage that's NOT in the news. I'm not accusing, just wondering. As I said earlier, just play the game the way it was meant to be played. Period.

 

[upstater]

Why do the Pats even need to stoop so low and bend the rules like this if it has no effect on the outcome of the game as you're saying? Why the need to even do something like this? The point is, the Pats are the only ones doing things like this to TRY TO GAIN A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE. This is, in essence, cheating.

They stooped this low to please their QB who likes the balls deflated.

That's why.

It's the same reason why the Packers allowed Rodgers to alter his balls, because that's what he prefers. And Eli Manning and Peyton Manning, for that matter.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots altered the balls on the sidelines (though someone on PatsPulpit actually went through the trouble of keeping his eye on the ballbag (cue Majerus) for the whole first half, and didn't see anything going on) because this is pretty common practice according to some equipment managers.

 

[Deepster]

The backpedaling here by Pats is insane.

Did it impact the outcome of the Colts game? No. No one is suggesting it did.
Have other teams done it? Yes. That doesn't make it right (i.e. The Ortiz/Manny PED excuse).

Here's what Pats fans need to say here. "Okay, we cheated again and got caught. Oh well." Accept and live with your well deserved reputation.

 

[upstater]

The backpedaling here by Pats is insane.

Did it impact the outcome of the Colts game? No. No one is suggesting it did.
Have other teams done it? Yes. That doesn't make it right (i.e. The Ortiz/Manny PED excuse).

Here's what Pats fans need to say here. "Okay, we cheated again and got caught. Oh well." Accept and live with your well deserved reputation.

Even if I were to accept everything you said, you're making a mountain out of a molehill, because you're a Jets fan. And because you're bitter at losing.

You might as well be a Providence fan.

 

[mauconnfan]

Even if I were to accept everything you said, you're making a mountain out of a molehill, because you're a Jets fan. And because you're bitter at losing.

You might as well be a Providence fan.

No he's not. He is stating the truth and any Pats fan that denies Bill B is a cheater is looking pretty lame. He did before, got caught and did it again. What does that make him? Why aren't you talking about what you think of the facts they uncovered rather than telling us why you think it's okay that it happened because....?

 

[Cheeky]

No he's not. He is stating the truth and any Pats fan that denies Bill B is a cheater is looking pretty lame.

No different than saying Jim Calhoun is a cheater and any UConn fan who denies it is looking pretty lame.
Jim Calhoun was suspended for several games for cheating. If your retort is, "he didn't know about what his underlings were doing," you're going to get the same answer from Bellichick supporters.

That's why this is so juicy - it's a tempest in a teapot, but the Patriots have been so dominant for so long and Brady is so close to the top of the mountain, that the haters are going to make everything out of this that they can.

Another question - has any ball ever been checked during a game? Was the alteration of ball pressure to suit the QB standard?

Feel the burn!!!

This crap will have legs all the way through and after the SB.

If the Patriots put the hurt on the Hawks, you're going to have everybody saying, forever, "they cheated to win."

There's something very beautiful in this, in that the Pats fans will never be able to claim greatest coach ever, greatest QB ever, greatest run of dominance ever, without hearing the retort of, "cheaters!"

It's like that girl who made one bad decision in HS at a party and she'll never live it down, no matter what she does.

OWN IT PATRIOTS FANS! ahahahahahahahha.

 

[upstater]

No he's not. He is stating the truth and any Pats fan that denies Bill B is a cheater is looking pretty lame. He did before, got caught and did it again. What does that make him? Why aren't you talking about what you think of the facts they uncovered rather than telling us why you think it's okay that it happened because....?

What facts? I'm pretty sure I already know Brady likes the balls deflated. Several QBs have said they like balls deflated/inflated. Eli among them. Rodgers is out there saying the refs don't bother checking most of the time. Who cares?

It's only a big deal because the Patriots win. No one cares when the Vikings and Titans do it. It just doesn't matter.

Pure jealousy.

 

[Cheeky]

Pure jealousy.

Come, come. There surely is jealousy involved, but it's not pure - there is also the cheating thing.

 

[upstater]

Come, come. There surely is jealousy involved, but it's not pure - there is also the cheating thing.

uh-huh. So, why aren't you riled up about Aaron Rodgers, Brad Johnson, the Vikings, etc.?

 

[BleedHuskyBlu]

No different than saying Jim Calhoun is a cheater and any UConn fan who denies it is looking pretty lame.
Jim Calhoun was suspended for several games for cheating. If your retort is, "he didn't know about what his underlings were doing," you're going to get the same answer from Bellichick supporters.

That's why this is so juicy - it's a tempest in a teapot, but the Patriots have been so dominant for so long and Brady is so close to the top of the mountain, that the haters are going to make everything out of this that they can.

Another question - has any ball ever been checked during a game? Was the alteration of ball pressure to suit the QB standard?

Feel the burn!!!

This crap will have legs all the way through and after the SB.

If the Patriots put the hurt on the Hawks, you're going to have everybody saying, forever, "they cheated to win."

There's something very beautiful in this, in that the Pats fans will never be able to claim greatest coach ever, greatest QB ever, greatest run of dominance ever, without hearing the retort of, "cheaters!"

It's like that girl who made one bad decision in HS at a party and she'll never live it down, no matter what she does.

OWN IT PATRIOTS FANS! ahahahahahahahha.

Don't ever compare that scumbag to Jim Calhoun

 

[UConn990411]

Don't ever compare that scumbag to Jim Calhoun

Why? Because you're a UConn fan but not a Pats fan?

No, I don't think Calhoun is slimy or tries to skirt the rules anywhere near as much as Belichick does. But the way the media hates him and overblows everything he does is similar.

I find it ironic that UConn fans can't seem to recognize that.

 

[mauconnfan]

Why? Because you're a UConn fan but not a Pats fan?

No, I don't think Calhoun is slimy or tries to skirt the rules anywhere near as much as Belichick does. But the way the media hates him and overblows everything he does is similar.

I find it ironic that UConn fans can't seem to recognize that.

UConn fans in general should not be compared to Pats fans or have the same expectations to understand these type of things. Pats fans are seriously in another league, or shall I say a league of their own.

 

[UChusky916]

They stooped this low to please their QB who likes the balls deflated.

That's why.

It's the same reason why the Packers allowed Rodgers to alter his balls, because that's what he prefers. And Eli Manning and Peyton Manning, for that matter.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots altered the balls on the sidelines (though someone on PatsPulpit actually went through the trouble of keeping his eye on the ballbag (cue Majerus) for the whole first half, and didn't see anything going on) because this is pretty common practice according to some equipment managers.

It was not some MINOR inflation/deflation based on QB preference. 11 of the 12 balls used by the Patriots were deflated by as much as 2 pounds per square inch than what they initially did, which would be significant. That's an unfair competitive advantage, not a 'preference' like you're saying.
It's an attempt to gain an unfair advantage over your opponent, which is also known as cheating.

 

[mauconnfan]

Why? Because you're a UConn fan but not a Pats fan?

No, I don't think Calhoun is slimy or tries to skirt the rules anywhere near as much as Belichick does. But the way the media hates him and overblows everything he does is similar.

I find it ironic that UConn fans can't seem to recognize that.

UConn fans in general should not be compared to Pats fans or have the same expectations to understand these type of things. Pats fans are seriously in another league, or shall I say a league of their own.

 

[upstater]

It was not some MINOR inflation/deflation based on QB preference. 11 of the 12 balls used by the Patriots were deflated by as much as 2 pounds per square inch than what they initially did, which would be significant. That's an unfair competitive advantage, not a 'preference' like you're saying.
It's an attempt to gain an unfair advantage over your opponent, which is also known as cheating.

First off, Mort reported 11 PSI, which is not 2 PSI less than the threshold. That's a 7.2% difference in PSI (but I'm not a science geek, this is what the physics guys are saying this morning).

Second, what do you mean by, "What they initially did?" The balls are provided to the referees by the teams.

 

[UChusky916]

UConn fans in general should not be compared to Pats fans or have the same expectations to understand these type of things. Pats fans are seriously in another league, or shall I say a league of their own.

As I stated in my previous post, a lot of Pats fans have only experienced what its like to win because of their prolonged recent success. So most of their fans feel like they're simply entitled to winning when that's not the case for any fan base. They're BY FAR the most spoiled and arrogant fan base I've ever encountered.

Most other team's fans act like balloon knots because they're bad apples. Every fan base has their bad apples. But Pats fans are not bad apples. Most Pats fans are so blinded by their team's success that they actually believe they are better than everyone else and therefore can do no wrong. This includes 'bending' the rules.

Late 80's-90's Cowboy fans are very similar and I think that's why many people hate the Cowboys, because of their arrogant fanbase due to prolonged success. Although Pats fans are a whole different level because they make excuses for league investigations into their team's cheating and try to justify it.

 

[UChusky916]

First off, Mort reported 11 PSI, which is not 2 PSI less than the threshold. That's a 7.2% difference in PSI (but I'm not a science geek, this is what the physics guys are saying this morning).

Second, what do you mean by, "What they initially did?" The balls are provided to the referees by the teams.

Bad grammar. I meant they were under-inflated by 2 PSI than what they initially were or what they should have been when they were checked by officials 2 1/2 hours before kick-off :

"League sources have confirmed that the footballs were properly inspected and approved by referee Walt Anderson 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff, before they were returned to each team."
(http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/i...-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game)
​

And YES, it was 2 PSI since you're so big on what Mort is reporting:

Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport
NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.
(https://twitter.com/mortreport/status/557748673208401921)
​

So, they gave properly-inflated footballs to the refs for inspection. Then 11 of 12 were deflated by more than 2 PSI for use by game-time. That's not accident. They did it to gain a competitive advantage.

I'll say this again, and Pats fans can try to justify it all they want with false claims, but this is the simple truth: They attempted to gain an unfair competitive advantage over their opponent. That's cheating. End of story.

 

[Cheeky]

Pats fans [are] BY FAR the most spoiled and arrogant fan base I've ever encountered.

Do you leave any room whatsoever in your position to account for the fact that you hate them with a passion? Surely you see that your hatred of all things Patriots probably affects your opinion of Patriot fans?

 

[Cheeky]

They attempted to gain an unfair competitive advantage over their opponent. That's cheating. End of story.

This is like that scene from The Sting where Paul Newman wins at the card game and the bad guy gets enraged after the game, and says, "well what was I supposed to do? Accuse him of being a better cheater than me?"

You do realize the following, right:
Every team in the league has players that use illegal substances.
Every team in the league turns a blind eye to that.
The players and team are, therefore, "attempting to gain an unfair competitive advantage."
and, by your definition,
All teams are therefore cheating, end of story.

Is your issue with the Patriots the fact that they appear to be the best cheaters?