vtcwbuff
Civil War Buff
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- Sep 1, 2011
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I disagree with the entire notion that failure to distinguish and compete is somehow good for mental health because that is simply not the way things work in the real world. Getting and retaining a good/better job is a life long competitive process and nothing would play havoc with your mentals like not understanding this and thinking you have an option besides competing.My high school (this was 10 years ago) didn't do valedictorians either. The closest they came was identifying the top 5 as "Super Seniors". The 5 of us were already obsessive students consumed with getting into the best colleges possible. It was probably good for our mental health that we didn't have one more thing to get competitive over.
I also agree with the idea that you don't want students choosing courses with the purpose of gaming their GPA.
I disagree with the entire notion that failure to distinguish and compete is somehow good for mental health because that is simply not the way things work in the real world. Getting and retaining a good/better job is a life long competitive process and nothing would play havoc with your mentals like not understanding this and thinking you have an option besides competing.
Coming in a little late to the discussion here but I am with you on this valedictorian thing. Just a personal beef as it sounds more accomplished in most cases than it is. My youngest is a great example. She went to Staples HS in Westport and graduated with a 4.3 gpa and 2350 on her SATs and was not Valedictorian, I think she was 10th in her class. Yet the friends she made at Cornell who went to Podunk HS, took few AP courses, and in nowhere near as competitive an environment, were valedictorians of their schools. It means nothing other than against the small subset of students at any given school. The top 50 students at Staples would have been #1 in almost any other school they went to.You're missing my point. There is already a mechanism that forces high school students to compete. It's college admissions, which gets more absurdly competitive by the year. Valedictorian is basically a meaningless title but the type-a "gunners" will go after it anyway. Is it worth it to have them literally lose sleep over it?
Not missing your point at all just disagreeing with you. The selection of the valedictorian is a competitive process. I believe what you are saying is there are plenty of other things to compete over so let's eliminate this competition called valedictorian and again I disagree. Some good things in life are competitive & are actually worth losing sleep over, like being named valedictorian in HS and later in like getting that job or promotion you really wanted-IMO.You're missing my point. There is already a mechanism that forces high school students to compete. It's college admissions, which gets more absurdly competitive by the year. Valedictorian is basically a meaningless title but the type-a "gunners" will go after it anyway. Is it worth it to have them literally lose sleep over it?
Who said driven students don't go to UCONN? UCONN is a good school, driven student go to good schools.Here's UConn's graduation program. Tell me which students graduated at the top of their classes from each of the schools at UConn. Then tell me driven students don't go to UConn.
Not missing your point at all just disagreeing with you. The selection of the valedictorian is a competitive process. I believe what you are saying is there are plenty of other things to compete over so let's eliminate this competition called valedictorian and again I disagree. Some good things in life are competitive & are actually worth losing sleep over, like being named valedictorian in HS and later in like getting that job or promotion you really wanted-IMO.
Sounds like the problem is with the system, which can be fixed without eliminating the competition. How does that saying go? Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Or is it don't cut off you nose to spite your face. Something along those lines.Valedictorian is pointless outside the bubble of high school. Especially because it often doesn't go to the best student but the one best at gaming the system.
Who said driven students don't go to UCONN? UCONN is a good school, driven student go to good schools.
Competition is not unhealthy. Its competition that fuels the individual's drive to succeed.
As a former, now retired music educator, I am against this type of thinking. My band kids were a competitive bunch and their competative spirit and drive helped grow the program.
This discussion reminds me of something Vince Lombardi said about athletic competition:
"If winning is not important, why keep score?"
I've got to disagree. Having recently been through the college admission process, twice - many colleges are doing away with emphasis on GPA and are eliminating the SAT/ACT requirements. Instead, the schools want the applicants to write an additional essay explaining their community service or interaction with the community (volunteerism, activities, church groups, etc). We were told the schools don't want just good students, they want well-rounded individuals.You're missing my point. There is already a mechanism that forces high school students to compete. It's college admissions, which gets more absurdly competitive by the year. Valedictorian is basically a meaningless title but the type-a "gunners" will go after it anyway. Is it worth it to have them literally lose sleep over it?
That's all well and good if you come from a family that has resources. Some kids need to work if they want money in their pocket, car, gas, insurance, phone...Service and/or extra curricular activities times are limited.I've got to disagree. Having recently been through the college admission process, twice - many colleges are doing away with emphasis on GPA and are eliminating the SAT/ACT requirements. Instead, the schools want the applicants to write an additional essay explaining their community service or interaction with the community (volunteerism, activities, church groups, etc). We were told the schools don't want just good students, they want well-rounded individuals.
My oldest son applied to MIT, with his 4.3 GPA and whatever ridiculous SAT scores he had. When he went to the school for a tour, the Admissions officer said "We already know you're smart. Now tell us how you're going to enrich the community at MIT". MIT doesn't have class standings. The school wants students to work cooperatively to solve problems, even assigning them to study groups so that students can help each other rather than just sit in a lecture hall, study alone in their room, take a test, and move on. MIT wants student to learn the material, not just memorize it long enough to pass a test. My boy ended up at Worcester Polytech, which has a very similar system to MIT. The philosophy is that the school doesn't want kids in their rooms cramming for tests all day; it wants them out in the college community, being hands on, engaging in extracurriculars, learning to work in teams, challenging them to think rather than recite by rote.
Forcing kids to concentrate on their GPA rather than the subject at hand is counter-productive. In a highly competitive environment where GPA becomes priority #1, the kids become stressed and poorly educated. As a mom of 2 college kids, I like the current system better.
Incidentally, colleges give honor cords, same as most high schools, that recognize excellence in certain subjects, with each cord a different color and representing a different subject. My oldest had 11 honor cords plus the Presidential medal of academic achievement hanging around his neck when he graduated from high school and I expect he'll have the same when he graduates from college next year (all A's except for one B after three years). Excellence is recognized.
Competition in sports is different. It's very discouraging to kids that go all out to excel in a sport to get the same recognition as someone who showed up just 'cause their parents made them go. Different topic altogether.
I'm not following you. Are you saying some high school kids need to go out and work to pay the phone bill?That's all well and good if you come from a family that has resources. Some kids need to work if they want money in their pocket, car, gas, insurance, phone...Service and/or extra curricular activities times are limited.
My high school (this was 10 years ago) didn't do valedictorians either. The closest they came was identifying the top 5 as "Super Seniors". The 5 of us were already obsessive students consumed with getting into the best colleges possible. It was probably good for our mental health that we didn't have one more thing to get competitive over.
Forcing kids to concentrate on their GPA rather than the subject at hand is counter-productive. In a highly competitive environment where GPA becomes priority #1, the kids become stressed and poorly educated. As a mom of 2 college kids, I like the current system better.
Incidentally, colleges give honor cords, same as most high schools, that recognize excellence in certain subjects, with each cord a different color and representing a different subject. My oldest had 11 honor cords plus the Presidential medal of academic achievement hanging around his neck when he graduated from high school and I expect he'll have the same when he graduates from college next year (all A's except for one B after three years). Excellence is recognized.
Not poor expression at all it was simply a failure to mention that the valedictorian completion was replaced by "student of the year" awards in various subjects- GOODNESS IMO. That would have put us squarely on the same page as we are now.I must be expressing myself poorly because I believe we are on the same page.
The second paragraph I quoted is something I was also about to mention. Back to the example of my high school - we had a ceremony at the end of each year honoring the honor roll students. They also identified a "student of the year" in each grade in various subject matters (English, math, science, social studies, etc.). These were chosen by the faculty so that the kids with the greatest passion for an understanding of those subjects were chosen not merely the ones with the best grades. Excellence was recognized.