OT: "Ode to NY" by #2

[mauconnfan]

As I said earlier, that was a link from another blog, not my material (the link was included at the bottom of the original post). I couldn't be arsed to do more than a quick google search for OBP. That's as far as I'd go for Jeets! Who I like and respect btw.

i know it's not your material but obviously you liked it because you used it......and its a joke! But since you respect Jeter we're through.....LOL

 

[intlzncster]

i know it's not your material but obviously you liked it because you used it.and its a joke! But since you respect Jeter we're through.....LOL

So we're back to Diamond Stone making out with Wisconsin chicks? The season needs to start already.

 

[zyron]

As I said earlier, the material for that post was a direct copy/paste from somebody's blog, not my own analysis

Just to let you know that this idiot guys "analysis" is laughable, is this point from his post:

Chances of Derek Jeter Getting a hit on a 86.1 mph Fastball from Evan Meek: 1/109.12 chance

Derek Jeter had a 0.9 % Chance of doing that naturally last night

Now, I am no math genius like this guy is, but Jeter is batting .255 for the season and a 86 MPH fastball is not very good in baseball. So how does a guy who gets a hit in 25% of his at bats this season have a .9 % chance to get a hit against a $h!tty fastball?

 

[Fishy]

Now, I am no math genius like this guy is, but Jeter is batting .255 for the season and a 86 MPH fastball is not very good in baseball. So how does a guy who gets a hit in 25% of his at bats this season have a .9 % chance to get a hit against a $h!tty fastball?

It's amazing that someone cut and pasted that and didn't have the candlepower to come to that same conclusion. As previously stated, using a Google search as a replacement for your brain is a) obvious to anyone you're trying to impress, and b) freaking pathetic.

I apologize for insulting turnips above. I now believe the IQ is more in the parsnip range.

 

[intlzncster]

It's amazing that someone cut and pasted that and didn't have the candlepower to come to that same conclusion. As previously stated, using a Google search as a replacement for your brain is a) obvious to anyone you're trying to impress, and b) freaking pathetic.
I apologize for insulting turnips above. I now believe the IQ is more in the parsnip range.

Coming from someone who talks almost exclusively about punching people in the throat and nailing intestines to the wall, I feel pretty good about that. And the post you previously referred to with the "Google search" comment hasn't been refuted. Where is your 'Jeter is so much better in the post season' analysis (compared to other stars at any rate)? Because the actual numbers, not your opinion, don't bear that out.

The long and the short of it is that I posted some basic stats about Jeter in the post season, and you didn't like them. So you called me unintelligent. Or something about a turnip.

All we got was one single metaphorical Jeter blowjob post from you. Deep had it right: "you don't get "credit" for doing the right things like not cheating, not taking steroids, never saying stupid things to the media or not getting arrested." That's a classic Chris Rock, "I take care of my kids!" argument.

 

[zyron]

Where is your 'Jeter is so much better in the post season' analysis (compared to other stars at any rate)? Because the actual numbers, not your opinion, don't bear that out.

I know you aren't talking to me, but where do I start? Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Joe Dimaggio, Paul O'Neill, Jorge Posada, A-Rod, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire,Miguel Cabrera . All their numbers are worse in the playoffs.I mean, I could go on and on. Cause most players stats go down some in post season based on better competition (As I mentioned earlier). Also, Jeters numbers do improve in the post season.

 

[Fishy]

You shouldn't feel good about it - I'm very good at recognizing when someone's out of their depth. You just tried to win an argument with a bunch of numbers you didn't understand that came to a conclusion that was just laughable.

Jeter's been a terrific post-season player with a huge sample size - he has an entire season's worth of postseason at-bats. He's not a guy who hit .400 with 60 plate appearances. He has about 750 at-bats in the postseason - probably about 10-12 times the number of anyone in the top-ten postseason batting average list. (Those players have around 16-18 postseason hits to their name...Jeter has an even 200.) He's at .308 with an .374 OBP.

And what the heck...Jeter has a .321 batting average and a .384 OBP in the World Series. (156 ABs, 50 hits.)

Those would be good numbers, parsnip.

 

[intlzncster]

I know you aren't talking to me, but where do I start? Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Joe Dimaggio, Paul O'Neill, Jorge Posada, A-Rod, Willie Mays, Ted Williams. All their numbers are worse in the playoffs.I mean, I could go on and on. Cause most players stats go down some in post season based on better competition (As I mentioned earlier). Also, Jeters numbers do improve in the post season.

And that was a good point about the better competition. I offered the comparison of Ortiz, who's not lauded as a god in post season by anyone not a Red Sox fan. Ortiz's comparative increase surpasses Jeter's. And therein lies the disconnect.

 

[champs99and04]

Coming from someone who talks almost exclusively about punching people in the throat and nailing intestines to the wall, I feel pretty good about that. And the post you previously referred to with the "Google search" comment stands on it's own. Where is your 'Jeter is so much better in the post season' analysis (compared to other stars at any rate)? Because the actual numbers, not your opinion, don't bear that out.

All we got was one single metaphorical Jeter blowjob post from you. Deep had it right: "you don't get "credit" for doing the right things like not cheating, not taking steroids, never saying stupid things to the media or not getting arrested." That's a classic Chris Rock, "I take care of my kids!" argument.

I don't agree with this - you do get credit for doing the right thing, over and over again, through the course of a two decade career, without any sizable missteps. The fact that his reputation remains impeccable after nearly 20 years playing in the countries biggest market, and for arguably its most iconic franchise, isn't just commendable, it's remarkable. That his opponents who he competed against so fiercely never had anything but good things to say about him is relevant, too.

There are various statistics you could cite if you wanted to make the case that he was overrated as a baseball player, or at least not worthy of being the cultural icon he's been depicted as by some. He was never a player who could carry an offense, his defense was by most measures pretty bad, and he probably stuck around a couple years longer than he should have. But at worst, he was an integral part of five championship teams, his shelf life far outlasted that of his peers (Nomar, Tejada, A-Rod, etc.), and over his 12 year peak spanning from 1998 to 2009, he posted a .320/.391/.466 while playing passable defense at position historically played by eight or nine place hitters.

Even if he never won an MVP, he had three MVP-worthy seasons (1999, 2006, and 2009), won a world series MVP, and posted postseason statistics that defied the overall trend (he got better, others got worse). And even if counting stats like hits are irrelevant in smaller samples, that he amassed the sixth most ever in a sport that has been around for over a century isn't something we should just shrug off.

And again, I'm not the sentimental type that can't stomach something that's not a glowing recommendation of all things Jeter. He had his flaws, and at a certain point, he became as much celebrity as baseball player. I've rolled my eyes at the season-long retirement tour and scratched my head over Girardi's decision to leave him hitting second in the order. But having watched him his entire career, I can say unequivocally that the guy deserves everything he's getting this weekend.

 

[zyron]

And that was a good point about the better competition. I offered the comparison of Ortiz, who's not lauded as a god in post season by anyone not a Red Sox fan. Ortiz's comparative increase surpasses Jeter's. And therein lies the disconnect.

Ortiz is awesome in the post season, raises his game to another level. I just don't understand how that diminishes Jeter. He doesn't improve as much as Ortiz but he does improve.

 

[David 76]

Incester,
Where did you hear anyone say Ortiz isn't a dangerous presence in the post season? I still feel the anxiety. You are all over the place trying to make your case.

 

[zyron]

Incester,

He's not talking to me lol.

 

[StevieDude]

Blah blah blah. The best thing about today is once the game is played ARod's suspension is over. See you in Tampa

 

[Onions]

This is nothing but sentimental pablum. Spoon fed by the media to us for years, now from you to us here.

First off, HE didn't win an awful lot. He was the benefactor of being on great teams and in the right place at the right time. And having Mariano Rivera pitch the 9th inning of every game in his career didn't hurt that.

Second, you don't get "credit" for doing the right things like not cheating, not taking steroids, never saying stupid things to the media or not getting arrested. I don't get a pat on the back because I went all day without murdering someone. He played in a tough media market and didn't duckk up. From where I sit, he got paid 266 million dollars over his career and was smart enough to keep his mouth shut. You don't get anointed for that.

Lastly, he did "create a night" like last night. He created it by forcing the entire league to fake a season long blow job with this retirement tour. And he capped the special season by singling in a run in a meaningless game with his team 13 games back in the standings, then milking it for every drop it was worth. For me? I'll take the way Michael Young did it. The majority of his hitting stats over their prime years are dead on to Jeter's. He moved to 2B when it made sense for the team and Elvis Andrus came up. He didn't stay at SS and force everyone to watch 6 hoppers skip under his glove for the last 4 years. Like Jeter? He never got arrested or got caught cheating or saying anything stupid in the media. Ron Washington said "His attitude every single day was exemplary," Washington said. "Simply the way Michael went about his business and the professionalism he showed took them [his teammates] to a level they didn't think they had."

You know what he did? In January, he hung 'em up before the season started. He made 16.0m in 2013 and admitted he could have "hung on" for another year with the Dodgers but he didn't think it was right, wanted to be with his family and retired gracefully instead.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/10384957/michael-young-officially-retires-texas-rangers

Good riddance to this Jeter retirement nonsense. Overrated his entire career, right through to the last game.

I loved Michael Young. A real quality player. Always thought he would look good in pinstripes. However Michael Young is to Derek Jeter as Stephen Drew is to Michael Young. There is no GM so stupid in the history of the game that they wouldn't trade 2 Michael Young's for 1 Derek Jeter.

"The majority of his hitting stats over their prime years are dead on to Jeter's" - well possibly but then again I guess his prime didn't last half so long, did it?

Career stats for Young, .300 BA, 2375 hits,1137 Runs, .787 OPS.
For Jeter .310, 3465, 1923, .817.

The reason Young didn't take a victory lap is because nobody cared. The same reason that nobody cared about Konerko hanging them up. For almost 20 years when the announcers at the little leauge world series asked the players who their favorite major leauger was, Jeter's name came up more often than anyone else, didn't matter if the kid was from Oklahoma or Taiwan. His fame may well be disproportionate to his talent, but apparently winning those titles in NY helps your public image, beyond helping you bag some hot babes. At this point he's famous for being famous, and he carries it well. Would Michael Young have carried it as well under the same conditions - we'll never know. In the mean time, trying to lessen Jeter by comparing him to Michael Young reveals a level of desperation that is fairly pathetic.

 

[Onions]

Did the Captain get one grooved in the 9th on Thursday night? Analysis to follow. Also thoughts on Jeter's overall skills and "captain clutchiness".

Now calculating Even Meek’s pitching in the last 7 months:

Avg Speed Delta of Mean Variance (Theta^2)
90.1 -1.357 1.841 Mean: 91.457
90.2 -1.257 1.580 Variance: 1.272
90.6 -0.857 0.734 Std Dev: 2.984
92.1 0.643 0.413
91.6 0.143 0.020
92.2 0.743 0.551
93.4 1.943 3.770
91.457 8.909

Variance: 8.909 / 7 = 1.272

Standard Deviation = Sq. Rt of 8.909 = 2.984

91.457(Average FB) – 86.1(Jeter FB) = 5.357mph

5.357mph (Delta of Avg FB and Jeter FBs) / 2.984 (Std. Dev) = 1.795 Standard Deviations from the mean

1.8 Std Deviations = .96407 %

1 – .96407 = .03593% Chance

Jeter’s BA: .255 Std. Deviation %: .03593

.255 (Jetere BA) = 1 in 3.921 .03593 (FB @ 86.1 mph %) = 1 in 27.831

Chances of Derek Jeter Getting a hit on a 86.1 mph Fastball from Evan Meek: 1/109.12 chance

Derek Jeter had a 0.9 % Chance of doing that naturally last night

OVERALL THOUGHTS ON JETER:

Great in the 90′s, above avg in the early 00′s, average end of 00′s, worst player in baseball since 2010… the stats say it all. I ing hate Yankee Fanboys.

Close and late game situations for Derek Jeter all time in the playoffs – CAPTAIN CLUTCH? More like Mr. Hopefully Make Some Contact.

7th inning or later: Leading by 1, tied, or have the tie run in the on deck circle:

Player Team Pos G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2012
Jeter, D NYY SS - 7 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .286 .286 .286 .571
2011
Jeter, D NYY SS - 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2010
Jeter, D NYY SS - 3 0 2 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 .667 .667 1.000 1.667
2009
Jeter, D NYY SS - 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 0 0 .000 .200 .000 .200
2007
Jeter, D NYY SS - 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2006
Jeter, D NYY SS - 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2005
Jeter, D NYY SS - 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2004
Jeter, D NYY SS - 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 .000 .222 .000 .222
2003
Jeter, D NYY SS - 9 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 .222 .222 .444 .667
2001
Jeter, D NYY SS - 9 2 2 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 .222 .300 .556 .856
2000
Jeter, D NYY SS - 9 1 2 0 0 0 0 2 4 0 0 .222 .364 .222 .586
1999
Jeter, D NYY SS - 7 0 5 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 .714 .750 .714 1.464

LINK

If Buck Showalter believed Meeks grooved one to Jeter with the Orioles fighting for best overall record and therefore home field advantage throughout the playoffs, he would've cut him from the team on the spot. That's not saying he didn't do it, it's been done before (see Denny McLain to Mickey Mantle for #535), but I can't recall it being done in a game that mattered before. As for the velocity of the fastball, who says it was a fastball, as opposed to a slider that didn't slide? In either case, I don't really give a rat's ass, I enjoyed the moment, and if Meeks grooved it, thank you Mr. Meeks.

As for your playoff stats, if I can read your chart properly I think you've come up with 31 ABs out of the 650 he had in the playoffs. Since every at bat is a clutch situation in the playoffs (that is what makes post season play so compelling) picking 31 at bats out of 650 to base your analysis on is the kind of BS that is defined by the phrase "you use statistics the way a drunk uses a lightpost - for support instead of illumination.". The "flip" came late in a crucial 1-0 elimination play-off game, he hit a walk off world series home run against Arizona, he hit the game tying HR against the Mets in the deciding game, along with making a great throw to nail a runner at home from the outfield in game 1 of that series, and that's just off the top of my head. He was not the best clutch player of all time in the play-offs, I don't think he was any better than Bernie Williams or Paul O'Neil on that team, but he is one of the rare great players that was better in the play offs than he was during the regular season.

As for the worst player in baseball since 2010 ... I'm sure by that you mean the worst "starting" player since 2010, even someone with your intellectual dishonesty will have to admit he wasn't worse than guys who barely played, I mean he was +5 WAR between 2010 and 2013. So if the statement was that he was the worst starter over the five years when he was older than 35, including a year when he was out with a broken ankle - I'd have to figure that was about average for great ballplayers at that age, at least the ones that weren't taking steroids or HGH. How good was Willie Mays at that age, or Mickey Mantle or George Brett - I don't have the stats, but I'm guessing they're all pretty similar (with the exception of Ted Williams and Hank Aaron.)

All your arguments, with all your stats and statistical variations add nothing to the conversation. Jeter is easily one of the top five shortstops of all time and he raised his game in playoff competition. He's not Honus Wagner, he's not Ernie Banks, but he's 6th all time in hits, 9th in runs scored, he has five rings and he's a first ballot hall of famer on merit. And there's nothing your envy can do to change that.

 

[Danzz]

You're absolutely kidding me. Derek Jeter played SS in case you missed it. The idea that he isn't a unanimous, first ballot, no-brainer HOFer and one of the best ever is laughably stupid.

Jeter will get in on the first ballot to the HOF and he deserves it. He wasn't a great defensive SS but he was pretty good and consistent. His offensive numbers alone get him on the first ballot but what I liked about him is that he never dogged it and his situational hitting was beyond outstanding.

 

[Deepster]

I loved Michael Young. A real quality player. Always thought he would look good in pinstripes. However Michael Young is to Derek Jeter as Stephen Drew is to Michael Young. There is no GM so stupid in the history of the game that they wouldn't trade 2 Michael Young's for 1 Derek Jeter.

"The majority of his hitting stats over their prime years are dead on to Jeter's" - well possibly but then again I guess his prime didn't last half so long, did it?

Career stats for Young, .300 BA, 2375 hits,1137 Runs, .787 OPS.
For Jeter .310, 3465, 1923, .817.

The reason Young didn't take a victory lap is because nobody cared. The same reason that nobody cared about Konerko hanging them up. For almost 20 years when the announcers at the little leauge world series asked the players who their favorite major leauger was, Jeter's name came up more often than anyone else, didn't matter if the kid was from Oklahoma or Taiwan. His fame may well be disproportionate to his talent, but apparently winning those titles in NY helps your public image, beyond helping you bag some hot babes. At this point he's famous for being famous, and he carries it well. Would Michael Young have carried it as well under the same conditions - we'll never know. In the mean time, trying to lessen Jeter by comparing him to Michael Young reveals a level of desperation that is fairly pathetic.

Beginning with the first year they became a full time player, Young played 12 full time seasons after that. For those first twelve seasons (2002-2013 for Young and 1996-2007 for Jeter) the hitting stats are:
Games: 1,820 Jeter - 1,862 Young
At Bats: 7,381 Jeter - 7,530 Young
Hits: 2,344 Jeter - 2,279 Young (yearly difference of 5 hits)
2B: 382 Jeter - 423 Young
3B: 53 Jeter - 56 Young
HR: 195 Jeter - 174 Young
RBI: 926 Jeter - 981 Young
Avg: .318 Jeter - .303 Young
From there, Jeter played 7 more seasons than Young, hitting .300 or more in 3 of them (.300, .334 and .316) and under .300 in 4 of them (.270, .297, .256 and .190 in an injury shortened 2013). In his last 5 seasons, Jeter hit .283.
I don't think the comparison is pathetic at all. Young's career was shorter and his prime was shorter by a couple years and Jeter hung on, playing SS and batting 2nd for 2 years too long.

 

[mauconnfan]

Should we just forget about all the other years then? Young was a great player and was more than likely as good as Jeter for a long time. Add 3 more .300 plus and a .297 to a few more years and the comparison is over. it would seem Young is like Mattingly in the fact they were really good but their careers were too short.

And not make any accusations, but Young was playing with Juan G, Gabe P a few others who had raisin sacks so I always thought there may be a chance. Hence the early breakdown in career suddenly?

 

[Onions]

Beginning with the first year they became a full time player, Young played 12 full time seasons after that. For those first twelve seasons (2002-2013 for Young and 1996-2007 for Jeter) the hitting stats are:
Games: 1,820 Jeter - 1,862 Young
At Bats: 7,381 Jeter - 7,530 Young
Hits: 2,344 Jeter - 2,279 Young (yearly difference of 5 hits)
2B: 382 Jeter - 423 Young
3B: 53 Jeter - 56 Young
HR: 195 Jeter - 174 Young
RBI: 926 Jeter - 981 Young
Avg: .318 Jeter - .303 Young
From there, Jeter played 7 more seasons than Young, hitting .300 or more in 3 of them (.300, .334 and .316) and under .300 in 4 of them (.270, .297, .256 and .190 in an injury shortened 2013). In his last 5 seasons, Jeter hit .283.
I don't think the comparison is pathetic at all. Young's career was shorter and his prime was shorter by a couple years and Jeter hung on, playing SS and batting 2nd for 2 years too long.

Maintaining your career for another 4 highly productive seasons (lumping his .297 in with the bad seasons tells me all I need to know about your arguments) with 2 more +WAR seasons is exactly the difference between a hall of famer and a very good player. I'm guessing there are hundreds of players who would be hall of famers except they couldn't maintain their production long enough. Like I said Young is to Jeter like Stephen Drew is to Young.

As for 2 years too long, one of those seasons was when he broke his ankle and had 63 ABs, hardly what I would call "hanging on", especially since he hit .316 the year before. As for this year, his worst ever, he was still marginally +WAR and the Yankees had no better options at his position. As bad as he was he was the best SS on the team and he helped the Yanks to a winning season. You can make the argument that he shouldn't have batted second the whole year, on the other hand I could make the argument that he should have been rested a lot more (he had 581 ABs) which would have improved his numbers, but instead took one for the team, especially when Drew proved to be such a disaster.

 

[Deepster]

Should we just forget about all the other years then? Young was a great player and was more than likely as good as Jeter for a long time. Add 3 more .300 plus and a .297 to a few more years and the comparison is over. it would seem Young is like Mattingly in the fact they were really good but their careers were too short.

And not make any accusations, but Young was playing with Juan G, Gabe P a few others who had raisin sacks so I always thought there may be a chance. Hence the early breakdown in career suddenly?

From all accounts, Young was as good a guy, if not better than Jeter off the field. If you're going to lump him in with steroid users, you have to lump in Jeter as well.

 

[Onions]

Should we just forget about all the other years then? Young was a great player and was more than likely as good as Jeter for a long time. Add 3 more .300 plus and a .297 to a few more years and the comparison is over. it would seem Young is like Mattingly in the fact they were really good but their careers were too short.

And not make any accusations, but Young was playing with Juan G, Gabe P a few others who had raisin sacks so I always thought there may be a chance. Hence the early breakdown in career suddenly?

Young was not like Mattingly. Young was very good for a number of years, Mattingly was herculean for a couple of years. Mattingly was more like Guidry - unbelievably great over a period of about 5 years, but couldn't sustain that level long enough to be a HOFr, except in my heart.

As to the other, I believe in innocent till proven guilty. It becomes a witch hunt to insinuate that stuff without any evidence whatsoever except guilt by association. Young's career trajectory was the norm up until the PED years, nothing about it suggests anything else.

 

[mauconnfan]

From all accounts, Young was as good a guy, if not better than Jeter off the field. If you're going to lump him in with steroid users, you have to lump in Jeter as well.

Fair enough because we don't know it either joined ARod and Papi on the list......

 

[David 76]

Oye!
Yeah, Jeter sucked. He just happened to have the 6th most hits in history. He had a bad year this year on his way out and was injured last year. That means his last 5 years sucked. But if you count the last 5 years he played, his average average was 295. Worst in baseball. If you omit this year he had previously been stinking up the team batting 304. A clear sign that he should have been benched.

Just grow up. If you want to make the case that winning all those WS and playing in NY and making some memorable plays when everyone was watching gave him more publicity, fine. That there were people comparable to DJ put for far less years, fine. But Jeter is the only one who did what he did. Period. And he was great!

 

[StevieDude]

Oye!

Just grow up. If you want to make the case that winning all those WS and playing in NY and making some memorable plays when everyone was watching gave him more publicity, fine. That there were people comparable to DJ put for far less years, fine. But Jeter is the only one who did what he did. Period. And he was great!

You're arguing with someone on the internet about a baseball player and he needs to grow up?

 

[David 76]

I think he does. I am another matter. You are under suspicion too.

I think if we were all totally mature this website wouldn't exist. But trashing a guy who is a clear hall of fame player as he is retiring is a whole other level. Quite frankly, I couldn't imagine doing it to any star player from any other team. Even Curt Schilling.