OT: "Ode to NY" by #2

[arnie3]

I've hated the Red Sox all my life. But I will say that even though I hated Ted Williams, I always admired him. I acknowledge greatness in sports, and Williams had the best eye and probably the best stroke that I've ever seen. I saw him at the Stadium only. I have never stepped foot into Fenway and never will. It's just the way it is.
Jeter may not have had all the tools, but I've never seen a player play harder. That's what separates him from most of the ballplayers around him. Other players may have had more pure talent, but Derek worked harder. He never took a night off. Hell he never took an inning off. So he has overcome any deficiencies that may have plagued others who were as talented but not as driven as he was. Story after story about his career tells you that Derek Jeter took it seriously and out performed those around him.
So I have avoided this thread until now because I know that Sox fans are basically s who would post statistical crap that says nothing really about what Jeter has not only done for the Yankees, but for baseball. He will be a first ballot HOF'er and that's the way it is. And Red Sox fans can suck it.
How about giving Mau and all Yankee fans the moment to enjoy this? Is it really too much to ask?

 

[ctchamps]

I've hated the Red Sox all my life. But I will say that even though I hated Ted Williams, I always admired him. I acknowledge greatness in sports, and Williams had the best eye and probably the best stroke that I've ever seen. I saw him at the Stadium only. I have never stepped foot into Fenway and never will. It's just the way it is.
Jeter may not have had all the tools, but I've never seen a player play harder. That's what separates him from most of the ballplayers around him. Other players may have had more pure talent, but Derek worked harder. He never took a night off. Hell he never took an inning off. So he has overcome any deficiencies that may have plagued others who were as talented but not as driven as he was. Story after story about his career tells you that Derek Jeter took it seriously and out performed those around him.
So I have avoided this thread until now because I know that Sox fans are basically s who would post statistical crap that says nothing really about what Jeter has not only done for the Yankees, but for baseball. He will be a first ballot HOF'er and that's the way it is. And Red Sox fans can suck it.
How about giving Mau and all Yankee fans the moment to enjoy this? Is it really too much to ask?

I'm kind of a Red Sox fan. I guess I'm probably the cheeks that surround the hole. It's one syllable vs. two making it easier to invoke. In the past I've enjoyed Yankee losses almost as much as I've enjoyed Red Sox wins. Which goes without saying I didn't alway have a lot of enjoyment. Of course there were the Whalers to give me satisfaction. Riiiight (Office Space Lumbergh style). And then UConn joined the Big East and well....

I feel Jeter and Rivera are class acts. It never stopped me from hating the evil empire but I've always admired them for who they were and what they've accomplished. I'm not much of a baseball fan currently but this thread brings back a certain nostalgia that I used to enjoy.

The interesting thing is I started out as a Yankee fan at a very young age (6 yo) but several dudes in my neighbor(hoods) were Yankee fans that belonged to the cheeky variety I mention above which soured me on the Yankees and pushed me to the Sox.

 

[David 76]

Fishy is right. These guys will start again in 5 years when Jeter's HoF vote gets him in on the first ballott. Then they will have to wait for Jeter's death and run the same stuff again.
Either way, they are still, 3 championships later, bitter and focused on the Yankees. I never spent this much energy thinking of any Red Sox player if I liked them or not or feared them or not.

There is a retirement party going on and you are welcome to join in or stay home. But your that person who goes to the party so you can complain about the guest of honor

The jury is out and people in baseball and the general public agree that he is a remarkable player worthy of a grand send off. You disagree. Fine. But you are a small minority and it doesn't really matter..

 

[sdhusky]

Let me ask you this....did baseball start in 2004? Again, you guys are funny and really "adorable" as Fishy said! Are you 23 years old? If so I understand.....still laughable

Did you cut and paste this from the Syracuse board?

 

[mauconnfan]

Did you cut and paste this from the Syracuse board?

No I did not. Did it hurt your feelings?

 

[8893]

There is a retirement party going on and you are welcome to join in or stay home. But your that person who goes to the party so you can complain about the guest of honor

Looks to me more like we're in one of the banquet rooms next door having a fine time and minding our own business, and you guys are the drunken boors who keep charging in to tell us we should be at your party.

The jury is out and people in baseball and the general public agree that he is a remarkable player worthy of a grand send off. You disagree. Fine. But you are a small minority and it doesn't really matter..

The jury is not out. Most people, including me, agree that he is a great player worthy of a grand send-off. There are a very, very small minority who disagree. It looks really silly imo when you are spending all your effort on negative energy trying to convince people who will never be convinced. Enjoy it yourself on your own terms and let the "haters" be. Or at least don't go seeking them out.

To put it in retirement party context, most people have paid their respects to the retiree, even those not at the party; but you won't be satisfied until you convince those few stragglers at another party who either don't care or hold a grudge against the guy for one reason or another, and that ain't gonna happen.

Put it another way: What Would Derek Do?

 

[Deadrody]

Again, with the craziness. "if the hall of fame had a hall of fame."

He was good for a long time, has a .310 average and had over 78 RBI 3 times in 18 years during one of the livest ball eras in history. His fielding is suspect, especially with advanced metrics folded into the mix. Rock solid, but not crazy.

But "hall of fame for the hall of fame" belongs with the Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Sandy Koufax level players. My whole point is that the Jeter is Jesus crowd it going a bit overboard and you are making my point perfectly.

You're absolutely kidding me. Derek Jeter played SS in case you missed it. The idea that he isn't a unanimous, first ballot, no-brainer HOFer and one of the best ever is laughably stupid.

 

[intlzncster]

Did the Captain get one grooved in the 9th on Thursday night? Analysis to follow. Also thoughts on Jeter's overall skills and "captain clutchiness".

Now calculating Even Meek’s pitching in the last 7 months:

Avg Speed Delta of Mean Variance (Theta^2)
90.1 -1.357 1.841 Mean: 91.457
90.2 -1.257 1.580 Variance: 1.272
90.6 -0.857 0.734 Std Dev: 2.984
92.1 0.643 0.413
91.6 0.143 0.020
92.2 0.743 0.551
93.4 1.943 3.770
91.457 8.909

Variance: 8.909 / 7 = 1.272

Standard Deviation = Sq. Rt of 8.909 = 2.984

91.457(Average FB) – 86.1(Jeter FB) = 5.357mph

5.357mph (Delta of Avg FB and Jeter FBs) / 2.984 (Std. Dev) = 1.795 Standard Deviations from the mean

1.8 Std Deviations = .96407 %

1 – .96407 = .03593% Chance

Jeter’s BA: .255 Std. Deviation %: .03593

.255 (Jetere BA) = 1 in 3.921 .03593 (FB @ 86.1 mph %) = 1 in 27.831

Chances of Derek Jeter Getting a hit on a 86.1 mph Fastball from Evan Meek: 1/109.12 chance

Derek Jeter had a 0.9 % Chance of doing that naturally last night

OVERALL THOUGHTS ON JETER:

Great in the 90′s, above avg in the early 00′s, average end of 00′s, worst player in baseball since 2010… the stats say it all. I hate Yankee Fanboys.

Close and late game situations for Derek Jeter all time in the playoffs – CAPTAIN CLUTCH? More like Mr. Hopefully Make Some Contact.

7th inning or later: Leading by 1, tied, or have the tie run in the on deck circle:

Player Team Pos G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2012
Jeter, D NYY SS - 7 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .286 .286 .286 .571
2011
Jeter, D NYY SS - 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2010
Jeter, D NYY SS - 3 0 2 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 .667 .667 1.000 1.667
2009
Jeter, D NYY SS - 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 4 0 0 .000 .200 .000 .200
2007
Jeter, D NYY SS - 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2006
Jeter, D NYY SS - 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2005
Jeter, D NYY SS - 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2004
Jeter, D NYY SS - 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 .000 .222 .000 .222
2003
Jeter, D NYY SS - 9 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 .222 .222 .444 .667
2001
Jeter, D NYY SS - 9 2 2 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 .222 .300 .556 .856
2000
Jeter, D NYY SS - 9 1 2 0 0 0 0 2 4 0 0 .222 .364 .222 .586
1999
Jeter, D NYY SS - 7 0 5 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 .714 .750 .714 1.464

LINK

 

[intlzncster]

You're absolutely kidding me. Derek Jeter played SS in case you missed it. The idea that he isn't a unanimous, first ballot, no-brainer HOFer and one of the best ever is laughably stupid.

There has never been a unanimous first ballot HOFer ever.

 

[intlzncster]

Whoops, forgot to include the graph that should have led off the Jeter statistical analysis post 2 above:

 

[David 76]

Looks to me more like we're in one of the banquet rooms next door having a fine time and minding our own business, and you guys are the drunken boors who keep charging in to tell us we should be at your party.



The jury is not out. Most people, including me, agree that he is a great player worthy of a grand send-off. There are a very, very small minority who disagree. It looks really silly imo when you are spending all your effort on negative energy trying to convince people who will never be convinced. Enjoy it yourself on your own terms and let the "haters" be. Or at least don't go seeking them out.

To put it in retirement party context, most people have paid their respects to the retiree, even those not at the party; but you won't be satisfied until you convince those few stragglers at another party who either don't care or hold a grudge against the guy for one reason or another, and that ain't gonna happen.

Put it another way: What Would Derek Do?

If the noise was just "He's not the best player ever" and "I'm tired of the on-going celebration" I'd be 100% with you. About 20% of the folks commenting about this are in that category. But most love going after Jeter with a frustration from deep within them and with a lack of objectivity that is hard not to respond to. Useless to respond to certain individuals no doubt.

 

[8893]

If the noise was just "He's not the best player ever" and "I'm tired of the on-going celebration" I'd be 100% with you. About 20% of the folks commenting about this are in that category. But most love going after Jeter with a frustration from deep within them and with a lack of objectivity that is hard not to respond to. Useless to respond to certain individuals no doubt.

Don't mistake volume and repetition with numbers. Granted they are vocal, but they are still a very small minority.

 

[zyron]

Great in the 90′s, above avg in the early 00′s, average end of 00′s, worst player in baseball since 2010… the stats say it all. I ing hate Yankee Fanboys.

So in 2012, when he led the league in hits, won a silver slugger and was 7th in MVP voting, he was the worst player in baseball?

 

[Fishy]

So in 2012, when he led the league in hits, won a silver slugger and was 7th in MVP voting, he was the worst player in baseball?

lol.

Forget it - the kid has an IQ of a turnip.

 

[Deepster]

lol.

Forget it - the kid has an IQ of a turnip.

HE MADE THE FLIP PLAY!!!!!

 

[intlzncster]

So in 2012, when he led the league in hits, won a silver slugger and was 7th in MVP voting, he was the worst player in baseball?

lol.
Forget it - the kid has an IQ of a turnip.

Just so we're clear, that's not my analysis (ie everything after the opening comment). See link at bottom of post. For some reason, didn't post in as italics.

 

[intlzncster]

To put it in retirement party context, most people have paid their respects to the retiree, even those not at the party; but you won't be satisfied until you convince those few stragglers at another party who either don't care or hold a grudge against the guy for one reason or another, and that ain't gonna happen.

If it was only one party, you probably wouldn't hear much of a peep from anyone. But a year of fawning adulation (no matter who it is) is lame. Same thing with getting beaten over the head by Tebow and Manziel (at least Jeter did something).

Put it another way: What Would Derek Do?

Apparently he would have 20 or 30 retirement parties?

 

[intlzncster]

If the noise was just "He's not the best player ever" and "I'm tired of the on-going celebration" I'd be 100% with you. About 20% of the folks commenting about this are in that category. But most love going after Jeter with a frustration from deep within them and with a lack of objectivity that is hard not to respond to. Useless to respond to certain individuals no doubt.

Some people just like to laugh at statements like: "You're absolutely kidding me. Derek Jeter played SS in case you missed it. The idea that he isn't a unanimous, first ballot, no-brainer HOFer and one of the best ever is laughably stupid."

So basically, he should be recognized above Aaron, Mays, Gehrig, Williams, et al., none of whom were first ballot Hall of Famers. Obviously just one small example.

 

[mauconnfan]

If it was only one party, you probably wouldn't hear much of a peep from anyone. But a year of fawning adulation (no matter who it is) is lame. Same thing with getting beaten over the head by Tebow and Manziel (at least Jeter did something).



Apparently he would has 20 or 30 retirement parties?

You're whacked! The post with the graphs is somewhat stalker-ish.........pretty sure you got issues!

 

[intlzncster]

You're whacked! The post with the graphs is somewhat stalker-ish....pretty sure you got issues!

As I said earlier, the material for that post was a direct copy/paste from somebody's blog, not my own analysis (the link was included at the bottom of the original post). I couldn't be arsed to do more than a quick google search for OBP. That's as far as I'd go for Jeets! Who I like and respect btw.

And everybody that frequents this board has issues. Whether they admit to it or not.

 

[mauconnfan]

As I said earlier, that was a link from another blog, not my material (the link was included at the bottom of the original post). I couldn't be arsed to do more than a quick google search for OBP. That's as far as I'd go for Jeets! Who I like and respect btw.

i know it's not your material but obviously you liked it because you used it......and its a joke! But since you respect Jeter we're through.....LOL

 

[intlzncster]

i know it's not your material but obviously you liked it because you used it.and its a joke! But since you respect Jeter we're through.....LOL

So we're back to Diamond Stone making out with Wisconsin chicks? The season needs to start already.

 

[zyron]

As I said earlier, the material for that post was a direct copy/paste from somebody's blog, not my own analysis

Just to let you know that this idiot guys "analysis" is laughable, is this point from his post:

Chances of Derek Jeter Getting a hit on a 86.1 mph Fastball from Evan Meek: 1/109.12 chance

Derek Jeter had a 0.9 % Chance of doing that naturally last night

Now, I am no math genius like this guy is, but Jeter is batting .255 for the season and a 86 MPH fastball is not very good in baseball. So how does a guy who gets a hit in 25% of his at bats this season have a .9 % chance to get a hit against a $h!tty fastball?

 

[Fishy]

Now, I am no math genius like this guy is, but Jeter is batting .255 for the season and a 86 MPH fastball is not very good in baseball. So how does a guy who gets a hit in 25% of his at bats this season have a .9 % chance to get a hit against a $h!tty fastball?

It's amazing that someone cut and pasted that and didn't have the candlepower to come to that same conclusion. As previously stated, using a Google search as a replacement for your brain is a) obvious to anyone you're trying to impress, and b) freaking pathetic.

I apologize for insulting turnips above. I now believe the IQ is more in the parsnip range.

 

[intlzncster]

It's amazing that someone cut and pasted that and didn't have the candlepower to come to that same conclusion. As previously stated, using a Google search as a replacement for your brain is a) obvious to anyone you're trying to impress, and b) freaking pathetic.
I apologize for insulting turnips above. I now believe the IQ is more in the parsnip range.

Coming from someone who talks almost exclusively about punching people in the throat and nailing intestines to the wall, I feel pretty good about that. And the post you previously referred to with the "Google search" comment hasn't been refuted. Where is your 'Jeter is so much better in the post season' analysis (compared to other stars at any rate)? Because the actual numbers, not your opinion, don't bear that out.

The long and the short of it is that I posted some basic stats about Jeter in the post season, and you didn't like them. So you called me unintelligent. Or something about a turnip.

All we got was one single metaphorical Jeter blowjob post from you. Deep had it right: "you don't get "credit" for doing the right things like not cheating, not taking steroids, never saying stupid things to the media or not getting arrested." That's a classic Chris Rock, "I take care of my kids!" argument.

 

[zyron]

Where is your 'Jeter is so much better in the post season' analysis (compared to other stars at any rate)? Because the actual numbers, not your opinion, don't bear that out.

I know you aren't talking to me, but where do I start? Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Joe Dimaggio, Paul O'Neill, Jorge Posada, A-Rod, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire,Miguel Cabrera . All their numbers are worse in the playoffs.I mean, I could go on and on. Cause most players stats go down some in post season based on better competition (As I mentioned earlier). Also, Jeters numbers do improve in the post season.

 

[Fishy]

You shouldn't feel good about it - I'm very good at recognizing when someone's out of their depth. You just tried to win an argument with a bunch of numbers you didn't understand that came to a conclusion that was just laughable.

Jeter's been a terrific post-season player with a huge sample size - he has an entire season's worth of postseason at-bats. He's not a guy who hit .400 with 60 plate appearances. He has about 750 at-bats in the postseason - probably about 10-12 times the number of anyone in the top-ten postseason batting average list. (Those players have around 16-18 postseason hits to their name...Jeter has an even 200.) He's at .308 with an .374 OBP.

And what the heck...Jeter has a .321 batting average and a .384 OBP in the World Series. (156 ABs, 50 hits.)

Those would be good numbers, parsnip.

 

[intlzncster]

I know you aren't talking to me, but where do I start? Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Joe Dimaggio, Paul O'Neill, Jorge Posada, A-Rod, Willie Mays, Ted Williams. All their numbers are worse in the playoffs.I mean, I could go on and on. Cause most players stats go down some in post season based on better competition (As I mentioned earlier). Also, Jeters numbers do improve in the post season.

And that was a good point about the better competition. I offered the comparison of Ortiz, who's not lauded as a god in post season by anyone not a Red Sox fan. Ortiz's comparative increase surpasses Jeter's. And therein lies the disconnect.

 

[champs99and04]

Coming from someone who talks almost exclusively about punching people in the throat and nailing intestines to the wall, I feel pretty good about that. And the post you previously referred to with the "Google search" comment stands on it's own. Where is your 'Jeter is so much better in the post season' analysis (compared to other stars at any rate)? Because the actual numbers, not your opinion, don't bear that out.

All we got was one single metaphorical Jeter blowjob post from you. Deep had it right: "you don't get "credit" for doing the right things like not cheating, not taking steroids, never saying stupid things to the media or not getting arrested." That's a classic Chris Rock, "I take care of my kids!" argument.

I don't agree with this - you do get credit for doing the right thing, over and over again, through the course of a two decade career, without any sizable missteps. The fact that his reputation remains impeccable after nearly 20 years playing in the countries biggest market, and for arguably its most iconic franchise, isn't just commendable, it's remarkable. That his opponents who he competed against so fiercely never had anything but good things to say about him is relevant, too.

There are various statistics you could cite if you wanted to make the case that he was overrated as a baseball player, or at least not worthy of being the cultural icon he's been depicted as by some. He was never a player who could carry an offense, his defense was by most measures pretty bad, and he probably stuck around a couple years longer than he should have. But at worst, he was an integral part of five championship teams, his shelf life far outlasted that of his peers (Nomar, Tejada, A-Rod, etc.), and over his 12 year peak spanning from 1998 to 2009, he posted a .320/.391/.466 while playing passable defense at position historically played by eight or nine place hitters.

Even if he never won an MVP, he had three MVP-worthy seasons (1999, 2006, and 2009), won a world series MVP, and posted postseason statistics that defied the overall trend (he got better, others got worse). And even if counting stats like hits are irrelevant in smaller samples, that he amassed the sixth most ever in a sport that has been around for over a century isn't something we should just shrug off.

And again, I'm not the sentimental type that can't stomach something that's not a glowing recommendation of all things Jeter. He had his flaws, and at a certain point, he became as much celebrity as baseball player. I've rolled my eyes at the season-long retirement tour and scratched my head over Girardi's decision to leave him hitting second in the order. But having watched him his entire career, I can say unequivocally that the guy deserves everything he's getting this weekend.

 

[zyron]

And that was a good point about the better competition. I offered the comparison of Ortiz, who's not lauded as a god in post season by anyone not a Red Sox fan. Ortiz's comparative increase surpasses Jeter's. And therein lies the disconnect.

Ortiz is awesome in the post season, raises his game to another level. I just don't understand how that diminishes Jeter. He doesn't improve as much as Ortiz but he does improve.