OT: "Ode to NY" by #2

[mauconnfan]

I'm not the biggest fan of guys announcing their retirement before the season ... but I'd much prefer seeing this story beaten to death than the crap that's been going on in the NFL.

Good call there.......hey I'm a Yankee fan (no really?) but I haven't found the time to watch many of the "Last game" at any of the stadiums at all and really could care less too, it seems a bit overdone but this isn't Jeter's doing it's what other organizations feel he deserves. But if you don't want to tune in (or watch at some point) his last game at Yankee Stadium then you just aren't a baseball fan or much of one. That's a special place and a special night and I believe it will be the same at Fenway on Sunday night. "Most" Sox fans will miss him as now the hated Yanks aren't that much anymore.....who's left to hate that is actually a Yankee? Times are changing, no Mo or Jeter now, the rivalry will not be the same for a while with this departure being the last.

 

[Walker11]

 

[intlzncster]

. "Most" Sox fans will miss him as now the hated Yanks aren't that much anymore.....who's left to hate that is actually a Yankee? Times are changing, no Mo or Jeter now, the rivalry will not be the same for a while with this departure being the last.

The rivalry died down years ago. 2004 was an exorcism of all the demons (especially given "the comeback" and the juxtaposition to Grady's 2003). Jeter wasn't even the most hated Yankee during their championship years imo; guys like Paul O'Neill and Jorge Posada took that crown. In fact, the Jeter 'hate' transformed over the years to grudging respect. Even the real Steinbrenner isn't around anymore, so it's not worth hating the owner.

And nobody ever hated Mariano Rivera (didn't want to see him coming in from the Pen mind you). I can't think of anyone anywhere who did. He was like the Kevin Ollie of Yankee baseball. Most Sox fans actually liked the guy.

 

[Waquoit]

Jeter has had a long tradition of existance. That can't be denied.

 

[mauconnfan]

If you watch this guy and agree with him you have issues usually! LOL....he makes little sense ever!

 

[mauconnfan]

Jeter has had a long tradition of existance. That can't be denied.

Blah blah blah blah blah

 

[HuskyHawk]

Good call there..hey I'm a Yankee fan (no really?) but I haven't found the time to watch many of the "Last game" at any of the stadiums at all and really could care less too, it seems a bit overdone but this isn't Jeter's doing it's what other organizations feel he deserves. But if you don't want to tune in (or watch at some point) his last game at Yankee Stadium then you just aren't a baseball fan or much of one. That's a special place and a special night and I believe it will be the same at Fenway on Sunday night. "Most" Sox fans will miss him as now the hated Yanks aren't that much anymore.....who's left to hate that is actually a Yankee? Times are changing, no Mo or Jeter now, the rivalry will not be the same for a while with this departure being the last.

As a Sox fan, I can say I don't feel any hate for Jeter, never did. I did feel a rivalry when we had Nomar at his best (and he had a , but since then Boston has been a train wreck at SS, and we can only admire the stability Jeter brought to NY. Same with Rivera, who ever disliked him? How could you? Good grief, even when we had Papelbon at his best I didn't like the guy, he was a jerk. Mo was pure class. Mattingly too. Same with Bernie Williams who just killed Boston, class act. Meanwhile, if Yankee fans are honest, some of your players have been unlikable jerks at best.

Sox fans will give Jeter a send off above and beyond anyplace but NY. Just wait. Rivera certainly got one last year. There's a reason for it, the two stadiums where those guys played the most games that mattered...mattered to the fans and the teams, were Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park.

 

[mauconnfan]

As a Sox fan, I can say I don't feel any hate for Jeter, never did. I did feel a rivalry when we had Nomar at his best (and he had a , but since then Boston has been a train wreck at SS, and we can only admire the stability Jeter brought to NY. Same with Rivera, who ever disliked him? How could you? Good grief, even when we had Papelbon at his best I didn't like the guy, he was a jerk. Mo was pure class. Mattingly too. Same with Bernie Williams who just killed Boston, class act. Meanwhile, if Yankee fans are honest, some of your players have been unlikable jerks at best.

Sox fans will give Jeter a send off above and beyond anyplace but NY. Just wait. Rivera certainly got one last year. There's a reason for it, the two stadiums where those guys played the most games that mattered...mattered to the fans and the teams, were Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park.

Bingo.......

There are always a chosen few Hawk. But very few.........I'm at the Saturday game with customers (I picked Yankee fans can you imagine that?) and it should be fun. I asked for the last game but our company somehow gave those to our CEO? LOL........I am sure Fenway will be a special place all weekend as usual.

 

[Waquoit]

I like the way Ted Williams handled it. Played his last game in front of the home fans, a homer in his last at bat, then called it a career. He didn't feel the need to go to New York for some parting gifts.

 

[mauconnfan]

I like the way Ted Williams handled it. Played his last game in front of the home fans, a homer in his last at bat, then called it a career. He didn't feel the need to go to New York for some parting gifts.

Why are you even here?

By the way I know you're not the brightest but I believe the world has changed since they froze that dude. Maybe media has just a little huh Waq?

 

[Waquoit]

Why are you even here?

I'm moving the discussion forward like I usually do. Why are you saying the same thing in three (at least) different threads that you started? Is it because your unrequited love knows no bounds?

 

[intlzncster]

I'd be remiss without posting Jerry Thornton's take on this, as it's a good addendum to the Olbermann video. Whatever you think of Olbermann, he does nail it sometimes (eg his Ray Rice/NFL rant). Plus Thornton threw in a strong usage of the word "hagiography"; I was happy about that. LINK here.

I’m not the world’s biggest Keith Olbermann fan, I’ll admit. But when a guy hits a nail on the head, he hits a nail on the head. And when he does it by dropping a punchbowl turd right in the middle of the most over-the-top, fawning, national ball licking, hagiography in the history of sports, all you can do is tip your cap to him. My enemy’s enemy is my friend, and all that.

And make no mistake, Olbermann did hit the nail on the head. All things considered, Derek Jeter might be the most overrated athlete of all time. That doesn’t mean he’s sucked by any stretch. But by dictionary definition, “overrate” means “to rate or appraise too highly; overestimate” and that is Jeter to a tee. He’s been a decent, steady little singles hitter and a defensive liability for 20 years, and that is it. But at no point has he ever done anything to justify having SportsCenter get preempted by him taking batting practice six days before his last game, like happened yesterday. He’s the Kim Jong Il of baseball; everything he’s ever done is completely blown out of proportion by the media to the point it’s fiction.

Consider his legendary clutch play. Compare Jeter’s October/November numbers and they’re virtually identical to his April-September numbers:

– Regular Season: .310 BA .377 OBP .440 SLG .817 OPS
– Postseason: .308 BA .378 OBP .465 SLG .838 OPS

Not that there’s anything wrong with playing at the same level in the postseason as you always do. But his Baseball Reference bio calls him “Mr. November” and “Captain Clutch,” not “Mr. Stayed the Same” and “Captain Maintained the Same Level of Production.” By contrast, consider David Ortiz, whose numbers go up in every category and his World Series numbers go off the charts (BA: .285 to .455, SLG: .547 to .795, OPS: .926 to 1.372). And if you want to take a specific example, in the 2004 ALCS, Captain Clutch hit .200 and slugged .233 with one extra base hit (a double) in 38 plate appearances. While every Yankee fan and all the Jeter apologists fired all their bullets at ARod and then threw the empty gun, Jeter was also front and center in the biggest collapse in the history of everything.

And that doesn’t even address his fielding. To point out that he’s a terrible shortstop and his Gold Gloves are the biggest joke awards ever given out is too easy. It’s fishing with dynamite. Barstool legend Soog once sent me a metric I can no longer find. But it measured defensive runs given up over the average player and Jeter was dead last in baseball history. Something like 18.243rd out of 18.243. But absent the link I won’t stand on that. I’ll just state the one point not even the most diehard Jeter jock sniffer… not Pete Manzo or Susan Waldmyn or anyone… could argue: He hasn’t been the best shortstop in his own infield for 10 years. And the fact that Captain Intangibles has never moved to another position is the height of selfishness.

So yeah, make all the dramatic Nike and Gatorade ads you want. Celebrate him for living in New York without getting into trouble like it’s a Chris Rock bit (“I ain’t never been to jail!” “You’re not supposed to! What do you want? A cookie?!?”) Cry all you want at his 27 retirement celebrations and laud him for being the leaderiest leader whose leadership ever lead. But you can’t believe he’s earned all this. @JerryThornton1

By Jerry Thornton posted September 24th, 2014 at 11:54 AM

 

[David 76]

I'm not the biggest fan of guys announcing their retirement before the season ... but I'd much prefer seeing this story beaten to death than the crap that's been going on in the NFL.

Better the story get beat to death than the wife?

 

[zyron]

He’s been a decent, steady little singles hitter and a defensive liability for 20 years, and that is it.

That's all I have to read that this person is a moron. He has no idea what he is talking about. I posted earlier about where Jeter was ranked in a career offensive WAR, now here is some players he is ahead of.


20.Derek Jeter (20, 40)95.3R
21.Jimmie Foxx+ (20)94.3R
22.Eddie Mathews+ (17)93.8L
23.Cap Anson+ (27)90.9R
Mike Schmidt+ (18)90.9R
25.Chipper Jones (19)87.4B
26.George Brett+ (21)84.1L
27.Ken Griffey (22)83.8L
28.Albert Pujols (14, 34)82.6R
29.Pete Rose (24)82.2B
Robin Yount+ (20)82.2R
31.Dan Brouthers+ (19)81.6L
32.Manny Ramirez (19, 42)81.2R
33.Wade Boggs+ (18)80.6L
34.Rod Carew+ (19)80.4L


Now this isn't some persons opinion, these are done by math and if Jeter is what he says, what does it say about the guys he is ahead of. I guess Jimmie Foxx, Eddie Matthews and Mike Schmidt must have been some sh!tty, overrated players too.

 

[Deepster]

A little known fact.

Many people know Ted Williams hit a HR in his last at bat, right? Did you know that was his last game at Fenway? After hitting that HR, he refused to take the trip to NY to close out the season with 3 games at Yankee Stadium. You might think he was a curmudgeon, but I tip my cap to him for going out the way he did. Oh, and he also his .316 with 29 HR's at age 42.

Not Captain Jeets. He'll be at Fenway soaking up all the fake ovations for every bloop he hits in to RF all weekend.

 

[intlzncster]

That's all I have to read that this person is a moron. He has no idea what he is talking about. I posted earlier about where Jeter was ranked in a career offensive WAR, now here is some players he is ahead of.

Now this isn't some persons opinion, these are done by math.

Ummh, since we are throwing 'moron' around, you might want to quote the person who actually wrote the statement instead of ascribing someone else's quote to myself (even though it was in my post), whether inadvertently or not.

 

[intlzncster]

Not Captain Jeets. He'll be at Fenway soaking up all the fake ovations for every bloop he hits in to RF ground out to short all weekend.

ftfy

 

[zyron]

Ummh, since we are throwing 'moron' around, you might want to quote the person who actually wrote the statement instead of ascribing someone else's quote to myself (even though it was in my post), whether inadvertently or not.

I wasn't calling you one, the idiot who wrote the article.

 

[zyron]

A little known fact.

Many people know Ted Williams hit a HR in his last at bat, right? Did you know that was his last game at Fenway? After hitting that HR, he refused to take the trip to NY to close out the season with 3 games at Yankee Stadium. You might think he was a curmudgeon, but I tip my cap to him for going out the way he did. Oh, and he also his .316 with 29 HR's at age 42.

Not Captain Jeets. He'll be at Fenway soaking up all the fake ovations for every bloop he hits in to RF all weekend.

I think it is pretty well known that Ted Williams was a huge a#@^ole. If Jeter didn't play at Fenway, people would be killing him for that, and I don't know why he would be expected to not play, just a bizzare comment.

And if I was a Mets fan, I would be more concerned about $20 million a year David Wright being done at 31, not how 40 year old Jeter is playing in his last 5 games.

 

[David 76]

I've seen defensive liabilities. Jeter's defensive liability is the most overrated thing about him. I'm too old for all the new metrics in baseball but I think some of then are BS. I watched Jeter most games and saw a lot of great plays.
You want to talk about the defense of Ted Williams? The defense of Ortiz? Manny? Those are atrocious fielders (not Ted he really wasn't that bad either).
You want to talk the comparative worth of Nomar? A guy who was truly great and the team was better without him. Cal playing when he should have sat so he could break Lou's record?
Please, just shut up. The season will end soon. I promise I won't complain when Pedroia takes a victory lap. However, if things remain true to form, it won't be in a Red Sox uniform
I find 99% of the country, including most Sox fans, respect Jeter. Olberman (who was too extreme to keep his job on MSNBC!) can kiss my butt. George Brett and Cal Ripkin among others also deservedly got the same treatment and they were not the greatest baseball player ever either.

 

[Deepster]

I think it is pretty well known that Ted Williams was a huge a#@^ole. If Jeter didn't play at Fenway, people would be killing him for that, and I don't know why he would be expected to not play, just a bizzare comment.

And if I was a Mets fan, I would be more concerned about $20 million a year David Wright being done at 31, not how 40 year old Jeter is playing in his last 5 games.

I completely disagree. If he said he wanted his last at bat to be in Yankee Stadium, all you fanboys would be drenched to the knees and I don't think anyone would feel it was inappropriate. Of course, that'd mean he couldn't soak up another fake tribute from one more team this season.

 

[intlzncster]

I've seen defensive liabilities. Jeter's defensive liability is the most overrated thing about him. I'm too old for all the new metrics in baseball but I think some of then are BS. I watched Jeter most games and saw a lot of great plays.
You want to talk about the defense of Ted Williams? The defense of Ortiz? Manny? Those are atrocious fielders (not Ted he really wasn't that bad either).
You want to talk the comparative worth of Nomar? A guy who was truly great and the team was better without him. Cal playing when he should have sat so he could break Lou's record?

The reason those aren't big deals is that no one gifted them 100 gold gloves. I don't think there was a single year of his career where Jeter was the best SS in the AL. He was above average for a portion of his career, but never great.

 

[mauconnfan]

I completely disagree. If he said he wanted his last at bat to be in Yankee Stadium, all you fanboys would be drenched to the knees and I don't think anyone would feel it was inappropriate. Of course, that'd mean he couldn't soak up another fake tribute from one more team this season.

Mets suck.......much like your opinion of Jeter. But hey Deep I get it - thank God for Husky basketball. Jets and Mets? I'd be an ornery fk too with no sense of anything outside of my world!!

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm moving the discussion forward like I usually do. Why are you saying the same thing in three (at least) different threads that you started? Is it because your unrequited love knows no bounds?

Guess my love and your hate are unrequited huh Waq!! .......lol.......

Can't like everyone I guess and who can blame you.........

 

[mauconnfan]

I'd be remiss without posting Jerry Thornton's take on this, as it's a good addendum to the Olbermann video. Whatever you think of Olbermann, he does nail it sometimes (eg his Ray Rice/NFL rant). Plus Thornton threw in a strong usage of the word "hagiography"; I was happy about that. LINK here.

I’m not the world’s biggest Keith Olbermann fan, I’ll admit. But when a guy hits a nail on the head, he hits a nail on the head. And when he does it by dropping a punchbowl turd right in the middle of the most over-the-top, fawning, national ball licking, hagiography in the history of sports, all you can do is tip your cap to him. My enemy’s enemy is my friend, and all that.

And make no mistake, Olbermann did hit the nail on the head. All things considered, Derek Jeter might be the most overrated athlete of all time. That doesn’t mean he’s sucked by any stretch. But by dictionary definition, “overrate” means “to rate or appraise too highly; overestimate” and that is Jeter to a tee. He’s been a decent, steady little singles hitter and a defensive liability for 20 years, and that is it. But at no point has he ever done anything to justify having SportsCenter get preempted by him taking batting practice six days before his last game, like happened yesterday. He’s the Kim Jong Il of baseball; everything he’s ever done is completely blown out of proportion by the media to the point it’s fiction.

Consider his legendary clutch play. Compare Jeter’s October/November numbers and they’re virtually identical to his April-September numbers:

– Regular Season: .310 BA .377 OBP .440 SLG .817 OPS
– Postseason: .308 BA .378 OBP .465 SLG .838 OPS

Not that there’s anything wrong with playing at the same level in the postseason as you always do. But his Baseball Reference bio calls him “Mr. November” and “Captain Clutch,” not “Mr. Stayed the Same” and “Captain Maintained the Same Level of Production.” By contrast, consider David Ortiz, whose numbers go up in every category and his World Series numbers go off the charts (BA: .285 to .455, SLG: .547 to .795, OPS: .926 to 1.372). And if you want to take a specific example, in the 2004 ALCS, Captain Clutch hit .200 and slugged .233 with one extra base hit (a double) in 38 plate appearances. While every Yankee fan and all the Jeter apologists fired all their bullets at ARod and then threw the empty gun, Jeter was also front and center in the biggest collapse in the history of everything.

And that doesn’t even address his fielding. To point out that he’s a terrible shortstop and his Gold Gloves are the biggest joke awards ever given out is too easy. It’s fishing with dynamite. Barstool legend Soog once sent me a metric I can no longer find. But it measured defensive runs given up over the average player and Jeter was dead last in baseball history. Something like 18.243rd out of 18.243. But absent the link I won’t stand on that. I’ll just state the one point not even the most diehard Jeter jock sniffer… not Pete Manzo or Susan Waldmyn or anyone… could argue: He hasn’t been the best shortstop in his own infield for 10 years. And the fact that Captain Intangibles has never moved to another position is the height of selfishness.

So yeah, make all the dramatic Nike and Gatorade ads you want. Celebrate him for living in New York without getting into trouble like it’s a Chris Rock bit (“I ain’t never been to jail!” “You’re not supposed to! What do you want? A cookie?!?”) Cry all you want at his 27 retirement celebrations and laud him for being the leaderiest leader whose leadership ever lead. But you can’t believe he’s earned all this. @JerryThornton1

By Jerry Thornton posted September 24th, 2014 at 11:54 AM

Please with the Ortiz crap. He 's a cheater and he can't find his glove - NO comparison!