OT: "Ode to NY" by #2

[BigErnMcCracken]

You're projecting. Don't try so hard.

 

[zyron]

He's been hugely overrated in terms of on-field production for quite some time, his Golden Gloves have been basically a farce - let's give Andre Drummond the prize for best free throw shooter in the NBA while we're at it - and the whole "all about the team" nonsense took a bit of a hit when he refused to move to third when a far, far better shortstop came to town.

Agree his defense is overrated. But in the history of baseball, where do you think he ranks in Offensive WAR. It is a lot higher than most people would think. He is #20 all time.

1.Babe Ruth+ (22)155.1L
2.Ty Cobb+ (24)150.9L
3.Barry Bonds (22)142.6L
4.Willie Mays+ (22)136.4R
5.Hank Aaron+ (23)131.8R
6.Ted Williams+ (19)126.3L
7.Stan Musial+ (22)124.6L
8.Tris Speaker+ (22)123.6L
9.Honus Wagner+ (21)123.0R
10.Rogers Hornsby+ (23)121.6R
11.Eddie Collins+ (25)119.6L
12.Mickey Mantle+ (18)116.0B
13.Alex Rodriguez (20, 38)113.0R
14.Lou Gehrig+ (17)112.1L
15.Frank Robinson+ (21)106.6R
16.Rickey Henderson+ (25)104.2R
17.Joe Morgan+ (22)103.7L
18.Mel Ott+ (22)103.5L
19.Nap Lajoie+ (21)97.8R
20.Derek Jeter (20, 40)95.3R

 

[champs99and04]

I have a lot of respect for Jeter, but as a casual Yankees fan...it's sort of interesting to contrast the unadulterated adoration for Jeter with the complete indifference towards Robinson Cano leaving for Seattle. Jeter was a great player and a Hall of Famer to be sure, but his last great year was 2009, and he's been a borderline replacement level player for two years. Meanwhile, a great, homegrown Yankee in the midst of his prime leaves for Seattle, and it doesn't even seem like an event. And before you mention the money, don't kid yourself - there's no way they ever would have let Jeter or Rivera play anywhere else. They have a f'in 2 billion dollar TV deal, it's just that there is some weird reverence for Jeter that doesn't exist for other guys.

The whole thing is off-putting to me. Last I checked, Jeter's OPS hovers around .600, and there isn't a whisper about moving him down in the lineup. Then there's Cano in Seattle having an MVP type season that could have been the difference between making the playoffs and not. None of this is necessarily Jeter's fault, but watching the organization prioritize his send-off over winning seems to contradict everything he's being celebrated for.

 

[mauconnfan]

Nah, most of America thinks its a joke at this point. It's been a fantastic marketing ploy though. Other teams, especially small market ones, have found a nice way to sell a few more tickets at the end of the season. And baseball has found a way to stay a little more relevant than usual.

If it was my favorite player or the best player of all time, I'd be over it too. Just too much at this point.

Wrong about that....very few!

 

[mauconnfan]

I hate the freaking Yankees, and Jeter hasn't deserved any of his last 7-8 gold glove awards, but he's a HOF player, has been a class act on and off the field and stayed with the Yanks throughout. You have to appreciate that in this era. We won't see many more like him. I think that's what this is about as much as anything.

Agree he didn't deserves them all but none - nope!! He always was slow to his left honestly but he was real solid everywhere else - one or 2 were ok not 7-8........ARod waqs usually better and Visquel was maybe even better than that.

 

[mauconnfan]

I have a lot of respect for Jeter, but as a casual Yankees fan...it's sort of interesting to contrast the unadulterated adoration for Jeter with the complete indifference towards Robinson Cano leaving for Seattle. Jeter was a great player and a Hall of Famer to be sure, but his last great year was 2009, and he's been a borderline replacement level player for two years. Meanwhile, a great, homegrown Yankee in the midst of his prime leaves for Seattle, and it doesn't even seem like an event. And before you mention the money, don't kid yourself - there's no way they ever would have let Jeter or Rivera play anywhere else. They have a f'in 2 billion dollar TV deal, it's just that there is some weird reverence for Jeter that doesn't exist for other guys.

The whole thing is off-putting to me. Last I checked, Jeter's OPS hovers around .600, and there isn't a whisper about moving him down in the lineup. Then there's Cano in Seattle having an MVP type season that could have been the difference between making the playoffs and not. None of this is necessarily Jeter's fault, but watching the organization prioritize his send-off over winning seems to contradict everything he's being celebrated for.

Ridiculous to ask them to sign him for 10 years with all of the BS contracts they have with ARod and Tex.......although give me 7 yrs and Ellsbury or 10 years Cano? I would agree if you were to compare.......

And as Sox fans see their 2nd baseman slowly lose his offensive presence, much earlier than #2, they can understand. Would you let him go?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Gold Gloves are about who managers and coaches think of as guys that play the game "the right way," that's why there's often no correlation between who wins it and who's actually the best defensive player at that position. It's also why there's a pretty strong case to be made that Jeter was the single worst defensive shortstop in the AL when he won his fifth in 2010.

Hyperventilate away . . .

 

[mauconnfan]

Gold Gloves are about who managers and coaches think of as guys that play the game "the right way," that's why there's often no correlation between who wins it and who's actually the best defensive player at that position. It's also why there's a pretty strong case to be made that Jeter was the single worst defensive shortstop in the AL when he won his fifth in 2010.

Hyperventilate away . . .

Why would I hyperventilate Crack.....you're the one picturing me choking my chicken!

 

[intlzncster]

Agree he didn't deserves them all but none - nope!! He always was slow to his left honestly but he was real solid everywhere else - one or 2 were ok not 7-8...ARod waqs usually better and Visquel was maybe even better than that.

Alex Gonzalez was better than all of them imo.

 

[intlzncster]

Ridiculous to ask them to sign him for 10 years with all of the BS contracts they have with ARod and Tex..although give me 7 yrs and Ellsbury or 10 years Cano? I would agree if you were to compare..

And as Sox fans see their 2nd baseman slowly lose his offensive presence, much earlier than #2, they can understand. Would you let him go?

Pedroia is unfortunately being undone by injuries. Once you start damaging the wrist and thumb area, you are flirting with trouble. And he can't seem to pull back his "break neck" style to compensate.

That's one of Jeter's (and Ripken's) greatest attributes: longevity/health.

 

[David 76]

Again, with the craziness. "if the hall of fame had a hall of fame."

He was good for a long time, has a .310 average and had over 78 RBI 3 times in 18 years during one of the livest ball eras in history. His fielding is suspect, especially with advanced metrics folded into the mix. Rock solid, but not crazy.

But "hall of fame for the hall of fame" belongs with the Ted Williams, Babe Ruth, Sandy Koufax level players. My whole point is that the Jeter is Jesus crowd it going a bit overboard and you are making my point perfectly.

Jeter is not with the immortals but he is in the group right behind them. Top 10 runs scored, top ten hits, most durable SS in history. Then you throw in the intangibles like throwing Giambi out at the plate to save that series. A "good career" does not describe Jeter

 

[intlzncster]

Jeter is not with the immortals but he is in the group right behind them. Top 10 runs scored, top ten hits, most durable SS in history. Then you throw in the intangibles like throwing Giambi out at the plate to save that series. A "good career" does not describe Jeter

Isn't that Ripken by default?

 

[David 76]

Man, some folks love going after Jeter. Lack of RBIs? He's been a lead off hitter.
Not a good season since 2009 (when he batted 334)? Yes , he dropped to 270 in 2010.
Then he hit 297 in 11 and 316 in 12. If you forgot, he didn't play in 2013.
Have other SS outperformed him? On many given years. But none (yet) have done what Jeter did in his career. Yankee fans know A-Rod had better years. But we have no doubt which one we would prefer on our team

That said, his good-bye tour does not have the joy that Mo's had last year. Maybe too close on the heels of Mo's?
What a great franchise to have 2 home-grown stars of this caliber leaving in consecutive years. BTW, I put Mo even higher in the baseball stratosphere than Jeet.

 

[David 76]

Agree his defense is overrated. But in the history of baseball, where do you think he ranks in Offensive WAR. It is a lot higher than most people would think. He is #20 all time.

1.Babe Ruth+ (22)155.1L
2.Ty Cobb+ (24)150.9L
3.Barry Bonds (22)142.6L
4.Willie Mays+ (22)136.4R
5.Hank Aaron+ (23)131.8R
6.Ted Williams+ (19)126.3L
7.Stan Musial+ (22)124.6L
8.Tris Speaker+ (22)123.6L
9.Honus Wagner+ (21)123.0R
10.Rogers Hornsby+ (23)121.6R
11.Eddie Collins+ (25)119.6L
12.Mickey Mantle+ (18)116.0B
13.Alex Rodriguez (20, 38)113.0R
14.Lou Gehrig+ (17)112.1L
15.Frank Robinson+ (21)106.6R
16.Rickey Henderson+ (25)104.2R
17.Joe Morgan+ (22)103.7L
18.Mel Ott+ (22)103.5L
19.Nap Lajoie+ (21)97.8R
20.Derek Jeter (20, 40)95.3R

Great list. To me, Joe Morgan was the surprise

 

[David 76]

Isn't that Ripken by default?

No. Jeter has more games at short

 

[mauconnfan]

Pedroia is unfortunately being undone by injuries. Once you start damaging the wrist and thumb area, you are flirting with trouble. And he can't seem to pull back his "break neck" style to compensate.


Maybe that's true but he wasn't Jeter anyway and wasn't going to be. Good player and also plays the game the way it's supposed to be played, but not the same level. A bit overhyped nut deserving of most!

 

[mauconnfan]

Isn't that Ripken by default?

He was 34 points better than Cal average wise for his career - .276 vs .310
He had 170 hits or more 8 times vs 2 for Cal
He had 180 hits or more 15 times vs 6 for Cal
He batted .291 or better 16 times
Cal had over 200 more HR's and 200 more RBI but Jeter also lead off or batted 2nd most of his career. Certainly wouldn't have change HR's ...

Point is most whining about this "whole thing" with Jeter are Sox fans, most I said. They were fine with Ripken but now it's a different story. Pretty simple to figure out why the Waq's of the world have so much to say.

 

[intlzncster]

He was 34 points better than Cal average wise for his career - .276 vs .310
He had 170 hits or more 8 times vs 2 for Cal
He had 180 hits or more 15 times vs 6 for Cal
He batted .291 or better 16 times
Cal had over 200 more HR's and 200 more RBI but Jeter also lead off or batted 2nd most of his career. Certainly wouldn't have change HR's ...

Point is most whining about this "whole thing" with Jeter are Sox fans, most I said. They were fine with Ripken but now it's a different story. Pretty simple to figure out why the Waq's of the world have so much to say.

Jeter is a better player than Cal. I was never claiming otherwise. The statement was about durability. Cal had the record for consecutive games played = durability. David 76 pointed out that Jeter played in more total games, which is a valid point.

I don't think anyone is saying Cal is better than Jeter. Jeter was a great offensive player (HOF great).

 

[UConn990411]

I am so tired of the Jeter farewell. Who gives a crap? Great, the guy had a good career, happy for him.

But enough with the hero-worship, googly-eyes, nostalgic b^ll$h1T. He's a guy. Who played baseball and banged a ton of 23 year old models.

He didn't cure cancer or anything.

I'm not the biggest fan of guys announcing their retirement before the season ... but I'd much prefer seeing this story beaten to death than the crap that's been going on in the NFL.

 

[intlzncster]

I'm not the biggest fan of guys announcing their retirement before the season ... but I'd much prefer seeing this story beaten to death than the crap that's been going on in the NFL.

Given the choice, 100m people out of 100m would agree with you.

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm not the biggest fan of guys announcing their retirement before the season ... but I'd much prefer seeing this story beaten to death than the crap that's been going on in the NFL.

Good call there.......hey I'm a Yankee fan (no really?) but I haven't found the time to watch many of the "Last game" at any of the stadiums at all and really could care less too, it seems a bit overdone but this isn't Jeter's doing it's what other organizations feel he deserves. But if you don't want to tune in (or watch at some point) his last game at Yankee Stadium then you just aren't a baseball fan or much of one. That's a special place and a special night and I believe it will be the same at Fenway on Sunday night. "Most" Sox fans will miss him as now the hated Yanks aren't that much anymore.....who's left to hate that is actually a Yankee? Times are changing, no Mo or Jeter now, the rivalry will not be the same for a while with this departure being the last.

 

[Walker11]

 

[intlzncster]

. "Most" Sox fans will miss him as now the hated Yanks aren't that much anymore.....who's left to hate that is actually a Yankee? Times are changing, no Mo or Jeter now, the rivalry will not be the same for a while with this departure being the last.

The rivalry died down years ago. 2004 was an exorcism of all the demons (especially given "the comeback" and the juxtaposition to Grady's 2003). Jeter wasn't even the most hated Yankee during their championship years imo; guys like Paul O'Neill and Jorge Posada took that crown. In fact, the Jeter 'hate' transformed over the years to grudging respect. Even the real Steinbrenner isn't around anymore, so it's not worth hating the owner.

And nobody ever hated Mariano Rivera (didn't want to see him coming in from the Pen mind you). I can't think of anyone anywhere who did. He was like the Kevin Ollie of Yankee baseball. Most Sox fans actually liked the guy.

 

[Waquoit]

Jeter has had a long tradition of existance. That can't be denied.

 

[mauconnfan]

If you watch this guy and agree with him you have issues usually! LOL....he makes little sense ever!

 

[mauconnfan]

Jeter has had a long tradition of existance. That can't be denied.

Blah blah blah blah blah

 

[HuskyHawk]

Good call there..hey I'm a Yankee fan (no really?) but I haven't found the time to watch many of the "Last game" at any of the stadiums at all and really could care less too, it seems a bit overdone but this isn't Jeter's doing it's what other organizations feel he deserves. But if you don't want to tune in (or watch at some point) his last game at Yankee Stadium then you just aren't a baseball fan or much of one. That's a special place and a special night and I believe it will be the same at Fenway on Sunday night. "Most" Sox fans will miss him as now the hated Yanks aren't that much anymore.....who's left to hate that is actually a Yankee? Times are changing, no Mo or Jeter now, the rivalry will not be the same for a while with this departure being the last.

As a Sox fan, I can say I don't feel any hate for Jeter, never did. I did feel a rivalry when we had Nomar at his best (and he had a , but since then Boston has been a train wreck at SS, and we can only admire the stability Jeter brought to NY. Same with Rivera, who ever disliked him? How could you? Good grief, even when we had Papelbon at his best I didn't like the guy, he was a jerk. Mo was pure class. Mattingly too. Same with Bernie Williams who just killed Boston, class act. Meanwhile, if Yankee fans are honest, some of your players have been unlikable jerks at best.

Sox fans will give Jeter a send off above and beyond anyplace but NY. Just wait. Rivera certainly got one last year. There's a reason for it, the two stadiums where those guys played the most games that mattered...mattered to the fans and the teams, were Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park.

 

[mauconnfan]

As a Sox fan, I can say I don't feel any hate for Jeter, never did. I did feel a rivalry when we had Nomar at his best (and he had a , but since then Boston has been a train wreck at SS, and we can only admire the stability Jeter brought to NY. Same with Rivera, who ever disliked him? How could you? Good grief, even when we had Papelbon at his best I didn't like the guy, he was a jerk. Mo was pure class. Mattingly too. Same with Bernie Williams who just killed Boston, class act. Meanwhile, if Yankee fans are honest, some of your players have been unlikable jerks at best.

Sox fans will give Jeter a send off above and beyond anyplace but NY. Just wait. Rivera certainly got one last year. There's a reason for it, the two stadiums where those guys played the most games that mattered...mattered to the fans and the teams, were Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park.

Bingo.......

There are always a chosen few Hawk. But very few.........I'm at the Saturday game with customers (I picked Yankee fans can you imagine that?) and it should be fun. I asked for the last game but our company somehow gave those to our CEO? LOL........I am sure Fenway will be a special place all weekend as usual.

 

[Waquoit]

I like the way Ted Williams handled it. Played his last game in front of the home fans, a homer in his last at bat, then called it a career. He didn't feel the need to go to New York for some parting gifts.

 

[mauconnfan]

I like the way Ted Williams handled it. Played his last game in front of the home fans, a homer in his last at bat, then called it a career. He didn't feel the need to go to New York for some parting gifts.

Why are you even here?

By the way I know you're not the brightest but I believe the world has changed since they froze that dude. Maybe media has just a little huh Waq?