OT: NY Times Piece on Deflategate

[uconngb]

Fk the report. The texts and just the look on Brady's face when asked about it is all you need. He tried to get away with something, he knew it and knew they were gathering intel against him, he looked guilty as charged.

Move on but for any fan of anyone to believe something didn't happen, screw science too, it DID. Who cares, next!

Your beliefs on what constitutes guilt is a laugh out loud funny....."I saw the look on Brady's face, and it seemed to be one of guilt.....therefore he MUST be guilty". I pray to God you never get on a jury.

 

[mauconnfan]

Your beliefs on what constitutes guilt is a laugh out loud funny....."I saw the look on Brady's face, and it seemed to be one of guilt.....therefore he MUST be guilty". I pray to God you never get on a jury.

Mine is laughable while yours is a joke. To think anyone believes nothing happened and Brady did nothing yet is accepting a 4 game suspension and willing to lose a 1st rounder is beyond ignorant and only Pats fans believe so - ONLY you are the idiots. Imagine that? Oh know you can't because you have a "Nation". LOL funny

 

[UConn990411]

Mine is laughable while yours is a joke. To think anyone believes nothing happened and Brady did nothing yet is accepting a 4 game suspension and willing to lose a 1st rounder is beyond ignorant and only Pats fans believe so - ONLY you are the idiots. Imagine that? Oh know you can't because you have a "Nation". LOL funny

Brady's appealing the suspension...

 

[mauconnfan]

Brady's appealing the suspension...

You know he will get 2 games that was already done when Kraft made his arrogant speech. I am hoping he gets 2 games anyway because it would be unfair for the Giants to face Brady a couple weeks later after the Cowboys faced Flynn or the kid. 'Boys are the 4th game.

 

[Dooley]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...se-institute-finds-wells-report-deeply-flawed

Alright, well now that other studies are starting to get out and it looks like the Colts balls were "unusual", let's start taking wagers on the upcoming Colts penalties.

1st round pick - I think we can all agree that they will lose theirs. But will they also lose a 4th rd??
$1M-$2M - if the Patriots balls were all within "normal expectancy" and they were find $1M, one can only assume that the Colts' fine will be, what, at least doubled?
Andrew Luck - Brady got 4 games so I'm going to set the O/U on Luck games at 7.5. I'll take the over. Obviously, this is going to ruin Luck's legacy as the greatest QB to ever play a regular season game but what's fair is fair, right?
45-7 AFC Championship Game - clearly the score would have been higher had the Colts not played with illegal over-inflated balls. This has a very deep impact to potential player performance bonuses, TV ratings (aka - advertising dollars earned/lost), and length of party times in New England households. How much money was lost since the score was only 45-7? I think we can all agree that billions were lost, but I don't want to quibble. Let's say $1B. I think it's only fair for Goodell to double the final score to 90-7 and fine the Colts for half of the lost revenue.

 

[boba]

To me the Wells Report is better described as a grand jury inquiry than an actual trial. In the grand jury the government (NFL) gets to present its argument and get a decision; the key point the government (NFL) has a decided advantage in getting the decision they desire. The AEI report is the defense argument at the subsequent trial. Now why the AEI chose to wander into this morass is beyond me. They do make a case of very strange bedfellows; I doubt many residents of Massachusetts see eye to eye with the scholars at AEI.

 

[Dynasty]

I'm a Giants fan so I obviously have nothing to hate on the Pats for*. I don't really think this one isolated incident is significant. However, when you step back and look at the last decade or so, there is a clear kind of skeevy Pats culture of bending rules to get any tiny advantage, sometimes to the point of breaking said rules. I don't think anyone besides Pats fans really likes that.

* It's interesting though, that despite getting their four asterisks over the last decade, Boston Pats fans STILL make noises of disgust when I say I'm a Giants fan. They just can not get over it. It's hilarious that some of the most hateful, spiteful, fans simultaneously and pretentiously claim that the whole sports world hates on them because all "they" do is win. Success breeds jealousy, etc. Maybe they should consider the phrase "The world is your mirror."

The most outspoken advocates for the Deflategate penalty on this board are Giants fans. Almost every thread on this site about Deflategate has turned into a Patriots vs Giants, Boston vs New York piss fest.


You claim you don't anything to "hate" the Patriots yet you throw in that four asterisks snark in your comment. Then, add in your comment about Boston Pats fans and it is clear that you inhibit some level of disdain for the Patriots.

 

[Sportsman5]

Not exactly - it technically never got that far so we don't know if the league would have upheld the sale which was being forced by the commissioner. Shelly got him declared incompetent and sold franchise as the sole proprietor. NBA banned him for life but never actually accomplished stripping him of ownership and it's pretty much speculation if they would have succeeded or not.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Not exactly - it technically never got that far so we don't know if the league would have upheld the sale which was being forced by the commissioner. Shelly got him declared incompetent and sold franchise as the sole proprietor. NBA banned him for life but never actually accomplished stripping him of ownership and it's pretty much speculation if they would have succeeded or not.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good argument.

OK. he wasn't voted out but insead was forced out with the result his wife sold the team.

My position on the issue is that Kraft can be kicked out of the league for conduct detrimental to the NFL. I don't know if he would get kicked out, but the threat is there and that was part of the reason (among others) why he chose not to further publically attack the league or sue them. Thats was all I wanted to say from the beginning. The rules of the NFL back up what I am saying. It's perfectly acceptable to have the opinion that Kraft would not get kicked out. But it is fact based on the rules that I cited in a previous post that he can get kicked out of the league.

That is the last thing I will say in the thread because from here on out we are just going to go in circles.

 

[CallMeBruce]

OK. he wasn't voted out but insead was forced out with the result his wife sold the team.

My position on the issue is that Kraft can be kicked out of the league for conduct detrimental to the NFL. I don't know if he would get kicked out, but the threat is there and that was part of the reason (among others) why he chose not to further publically attack the league or sue them. Thats was all I wanted to say from the beginning. The rules of the NFL back up what I am saying. It's perfectly acceptable to have the opinion that Kraft would not get kicked out. But it is fact based on the rules that I cited in a previous post that he can get kicked out of the league.

That is the last thing I will say in the thread because from here on out we are just going to go in circles.

Good god, man. This is nonsense. He can't be kicked out of the league for suing the league for violating his rights under the league bylaws. Maybe he chose to drop the suit because it just wasn't going to be worth it, but he absolutely didn't drop it because they'd strip him of his franchise. I'm not going to ask you to prove it, because I know you can't, because it's not true. Stop being a freak show and move on.

 

[auror]

Regardless of whether the Patriots cheated or not, the Wells Report is garbage. Garbage. The NFL is claiming punishment credibility because an "independent" (whose past and most likely future income is related to how favorable the NFL finds his reports) investigator found in their favor. Hey, maybe he really was impartial. But you cannot read the Wells Report and the Pats rebuttal (or this AEI report) and not conclude that the Wells Report is garbage. Garbage science, garbage logic, and confirmation bias in report form.

To punish someone, you need proof that is not garbage. One text where a guy calls himself the deflator is not proof. Especially not when real science shows the Patriots balls were most likely not deflated unusually in the first place. That s not a preponderance of evidence.

Especially not to punish Brady, who is not actually linked to the supposed infraction in any way whatsoever. Of course, he's being punished for failure to cooperate, despite... cooperating and testifying to Wells. But he didn't turn over his phone records!!!! Give me a break. Would you turn over your phone records to somebody your job hired to find you guilty? Especially if your union implied they would like very much if you didn't set that precedent? Should that be worth a 4 game suspension?

 

[auror]

He can't be kicked out of the league for suing the league for violating his rights under the league bylaws. Maybe he chose to drop the suit because it just wasn't going to be worth it, but he absolutely didn't drop it because they'd strip him of his franchise.

He dropped it after a meeting with Goodell. It's clear there is only 1 reason he dropped it: Business. $, PR, league-wide goodwill, etc.

Nobody gains anything from lawsuits like that. Even if the Pats were exonerated, the legal system slog would take its toll and tarnish everyone even more regardless.

I would not be surprised if Goodell compromised secretly and agreed to under table reimburse the Pats the fine and/or compensate for the draft picks.

 

[Rocktheworld]

The most outspoken advocates for the Deflategate penalty on this board are Giants fans. Almost every thread on this site about Deflategate has turned into a Patriots vs Giants, Boston vs New York piss fest.

I never said anything about penalties nor am I tying to make anything Giants vs Pats

You claim you don't anything to "hate" the Patriots yet you throw in that four asterisks snark in your comment.

I figured a little ribbing snark never made anyone's butt hurt too bad. I'll bring you an ice pack next time

Then, add in your comment about Boston Pats fans and it is clear that you inhibit some level of disdain for the Patriots.

Actually it's just me indicating that most of my experience with Pats fans is with fans from Boston.

Now, anything else you want to try to inject in to my post? By all means continue; reading that gave me a good little chuckle

 

[Dynasty]

I never said anything about penalties nor am I tying to make anything Giants vs Pats


I figured a little ribbing snark never made anyone's butt hurt too bad. I'll bring you an ice pack next time


Actually it's just me indicating that most of my experience with Pats fans is with fans from Boston.

Now, anything else you want to try to inject in to my post? By all means continue; reading that gave me a good little chuckle

If you weren't trying to make Pats vs Giants, then why did you feel the need to mention you are a Giants fan? Why did you feel the need to mention your experiences with Pats fans? Seriously, I would love to know so I can chuckle too.


Deflategate has nothing to do with the Giants yet you found a way to interject that into your comment. If you really don't hate the Patriots as you claim, then you being a Giants fan should have absolutely no relavance to your opinion.

 

[mauconnfan]

I realize many students and fans here live everywhere and some come from everywhere. But let's be honest its UCONN, there's a real good chance many fans here are either Pats or Giants fans if they like football. Not all mind you, but the majority. So yes in a way its a Pats/Giants thing but also the majority of the rest of the country has painted that "CHEATERS" emblem on team Kraft. I know Pats fans would like to just say "well of course Giants fans are saying he cheated they're jealous" Really? why would that be?

Fact is they have it following them now and it's hard to believe them. Really is that simple.

 

[Rocktheworld]

If you weren't trying to make Pats vs Giants, then why did you feel the need to mention you are a Giants fan? Why did you feel the need to mention your experiences with Pats fans? Seriously, I would love to know so I can chuckle too.


Deflategate has nothing to do with the Giants yet you found a way to interject that into your comment. If you really don't hate the Patriots as you claim, then you being a Giants fan should have absolutely no relavance to your opinion.

Because the kneejerk reaction I've seen almost universally from Pats fans is that whatever criticism comes from a place of jealousy/"haters". I simply disqualified that response from the getgo by explaining why I am free of that emotional bias when I say what I say.

 

[upstater]

It gets funnier and funnier. Now every Pats fan is raiding Goodell's closet for the bones. Just a while ago he was partying with their favorite owner and a great guy, now he's a total ? yep, it must be Goodell it can't be Patriots Nation.

Too fn funny!

O fer 3, soon to be O for 4. Boy, you sure can pick'em

 

[upstater]

Mine is laughable while yours is a joke. To think anyone believes nothing happened and Brady did nothing yet is accepting a 4 game suspension and willing to lose a 1st rounder is beyond ignorant and only Pats fans believe so - ONLY you are the idiots. Imagine that? Oh know you can't because you have a "Nation". LOL funny

Brady is accepting his punishment? I know this whole flap is so idiotic that it's a waste of time to follow it, but you are way misinformed.

 

[upstater]

Good god, man. This is nonsense. He can't be kicked out of the league for suing the league for violating his rights under the league bylaws. Maybe he chose to drop the suit because it just wasn't going to be worth it, but he absolutely didn't drop it because they'd strip him of his franchise. I'm not going to ask you to prove it, because I know you can't, because it's not true. Stop being a freak show and move on.

I don't know how many times we have to say it. He can't sue the league at all. I gave you the bylaw and the link above. He simply can't sue.

 

[upstater]

Because the kneejerk reaction I've seen almost universally from Pats fans is that whatever criticism comes from a place of jealousy/"haters". I simply disqualified that response from the getgo by explaining why I am free of that emotional bias when I say what I say.

I get that fans who dislike the Patriots are rubbing this in. It is laughable. But for anyone who is "objective" not to realize the Wells report is a total joke? That's just absurd. Why are the Washington Post and New York Times weighing in in this fashion? Because they are homers for the Patriots?

 

[zyron]

I don't know how many times we have to say it. He can't sue the league at all. I gave you the bylaw and the link above. He simply can't sue.

You said page 31. No where on that page does it say they can't sue. It only says on page 32 they can't appeal a decision if: The owner does something of a nature so bad, that the commissioner doesn't have the power to punish him sufficiently. So he refers the matter to the Executive committee with his recommendation. Their decision in unappealable.

It does not say you can't sue.

 

[upstater]

You said page 31. No where on that page does it say they can't sue. It only says on page 32 they can't appeal a decision if: The owner does something of a nature so bad, that the commissioner doesn't have the power to punish him sufficiently. So he refers the matter to the Executive committee with his recommendation. Their decision in unappealable.

It does not say you can't sue.

It doesn't say you can't sue but it does say this:

"Any decision is final, conclusive and unappealable.... [member clubs and owners] agree to release and waive any and all claims that such party may now or hereafter have or possess arising out of or connected with such decision... whether for damages or any other remedy of relief."

 

[jleves]

It doesn't say you can't sue but it does say this:

"Any decision is final, conclusive and unappealable.... [member clubs and owners] agree to release and waive any and all claims that such party may now or hereafter have or possess arising out of or connected with such decision... whether for damages or any other remedy of relief."

The back of your ski lift ticket says you cannot sue if you get hurt while on their property but people do sue and win (or at least settle) all the time. If there is anything that has been proven over and over again in this country is that you can always sue someone for just about anything. It wouldn't be in their best interest in this case so it won't happen, but nonetheless, if it benefited the organization they could and would.

 

[zyron]

It doesn't say you can't sue but it does say this:

"Any decision is final, conclusive and unappealable.... [member clubs and owners] agree to release and waive any and all claims that such party may now or hereafter have or possess arising out of or connected with such decision... whether for damages or any other remedy of relief."

That is what I just posted, that is if the what is done is so bad it has to go to the Executive Committee and they vote on the punishment. This is when they vote to take away the team or some other very harsh punishment.'t

It does not say you can't sue. In fact it says in that same document about the league getting their legal fees paid for if they are sued by a team.

 

[Deepster]

No, they just don't retract when wrong. They didn't retract on Bountygate, Ray Rice, Adrian Petersen. instead, all the NFLs decisions were reversed later. Goodell is 0 for 3 recently, and he's just going to continue his losing streak with this one.

The guy is a flat out liar too with the whole Rice videotape.

Just curious. What should they have retracted on the Adrian Peterson issue?

 

[mauconnfan]

O fer 3, soon to be O for 4. Boy, you sure can pick'em

I'm 0 fer nothing - I have no skin in this. Your guy and team is on the hot seat you wait and se what happens. Then you can whine like you all do! LOL