OT: Need Some Weed?

[breezy]

Information Oregon has had a spike in Emergency Room admissions related to pot since it was legalized. They are taking in far less revenue than anticipated. Arrests and trafficking in illegal pot continue plus illegal use of legal pot (sale to kids) are still a huge problem If you don't think pot can put you in the ER, you are hanging onto old Cheech and Chong notions about marijuana. It is way more powerful especially with the previously mentioned new techniques and the edibles. $21 million is peanuts in a state's budget even when multiplied by 12 months. Now you have to count the costs involved in setting standards for the industry. the uninsured ER admissions, the extra people going in to treatment. Legalize it if you want but the denial of reality should not be part of the discussions. Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem. The leading cause for adolescent & young adult admission into residential treatment is pot. Not pot plus something else. Pot. If you think insurance companies give away residential placements because a parent is freaking out, you are mistaken I know I'll catch flack for this post because it's all supposed to be about fun crazy memories and my post is "uncool". But I will put my street creds and clinical credibility with most anyone's. I've been on both sides of this issue, had some fun and seen some young people fall apart

Cannabis hasn't been legalized for recreational use in Oregon...it's as legal there as it is in CT

 

[David 76]

When you legalize a drug or other possibly obsessive behaviors (gambling) the use and related problems go up. When you make it illegal and harder to get the numbers drop. (opium, pot, etc from the Taft Hartley Act. Just true. No evidence that chronic heavy pot smokers reduce addictions to alcohol or anything else. It adds

Ask me which I'd rather my son have a problem with? I'd say neither. But if you force a choice, I'd pick pot. But I wouldn't be happy. Some of you keep doing the forced choice thing. Alcohol is generally much worse. But not for each individual. To me it is not legal pot or legal booze. I see it as an addition of another problem that will be exploited via Madison Avenue toward kids when we are already doing so poorly with alcohol.

I'm also understand the opinion that babysitting is not the govt.'s role and it should all be legal. Don't agree but I get the logic

And Big Ern, I haven't made a point to refute alcohol is more harmful than pot because I believe, for the vast majority of people alcohol is more harmful. I've said that many times. And while, fortunately, my "professional credibility" isn't determined by you, I would never judge the problems anyone was going through without looking at all the factors of their life.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Cannabis hasn't been legalized for recreational use in Oregon...it's as legal there as it is in CT

I assumed he was full of it, but this just confirms it.

 

[David 76]

Cannabis-related emergency hospital admission rates
have been rising sharply in the US.
• From an estimated 16, 251 in 1991 to over
374,000 in 2008
ER admission rates rising

Source SAMHSA

 

[CallMeBruce]

Cannabis-related emergency hospital admission rates
have been rising sharply in the US.
• From an estimated 16, 251 in 1991 to over
374,000 in 2008
ER admission rates rising

Source SAMHSA

Yes, and we've discussed how meaningless those numbers are. Any cannabis fatalities?

 

[David 76]

For every 1$ gained from alcohol and tobacco tax
revenues, $10 is lost in legal, health, social, and
regulatory costs
$$$$$$$$$$$
Source: Urban Institute and Brookings
Institute, 2012; Tax Policy Center, 2008

 

[intlzncster]

For every 1$ gained from alcohol and tobacco tax
revenues, $10 is lost in legal, health, social, and
regulatory costs
$
Source: Urban Institute and Brookings
Institute, 2012; Tax Policy Center, 2008

Fair enough, but that cost is highly likely to be far, far lower for Marijuana.

 

[David 76]

Yes, and we've discussed how meaningless those numbers are. Any cannabis fatalities?

A guy recently jumped out a window, traffic deaths but no overdoses which is probably what you mean. Lack of OD is a big plus for pot. You also will never die from pot withdrawal like you can from alcohol. Pot does well on lethality. No argument here.

Does anyone who discussed how meaningless the ER stats are have a background in the ER or hospital data? If so that would be good information. Or is that or is it just what they are assuming? If it is the latter, I'm not so sure.

 

[David 76]

Fair enough, but that cost is highly likely to be far, far lower for Marijuana.

I'll give you that. But it won't be the funds raiser the proponents are claiming either.

It is like the prisons full of pot smokers that would save us "billions" if it were legal. Truth is 0.3% of our prisoners are there for pot possession. These talking points of NORMAL and others are like urban myths that people end up believing. Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2004

BTW, there is no way that 0.3 percent should NOT be in jail. No one should be for pot IMO not for any drug. I'm a fine or treatment guy. No record. No detriment to future college or job choices

 

[intlzncster]

I'll give you that. But it won't be the funds raiser the proponents are claiming either.

It is like the prisons full of pot smokers that would save us "billions" if it were legal. Truth is 0.3% of our prisoners are there for pot possession. These talking points of NORMAL and others are like urban myths that people end up believing. Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2004

BTW, there is no way that 0.3 percent should NOT be in jail. No one should be for pot IMO not for any drug. I'm a fine or treatment guy. No record. No detriment to future college or job choices

I will be happy when it is a non event for athletes. Nothing more ridiculous than losing a season due to smoking some weed. 4 games for performance enhancing drugs and only two for beating the living hell out of your wife!

 

[8893]

Has anyone mentioned yet the estimates that some 60% to 70% of NBA players are regular users?

 

[tdrink]

This is a back door to legalization. If that helps to reduce the associated stigmas, fine. But the commercialization will fuel some of the very issues that the antis are concerned about.

People should be able to legally grow their own.

 

[intlzncster]

A guy recently jumped out a window, traffic deaths but no overdoses which is probably what you mean. Lack of OD is a big plus for pot. You also will never die from pot withdrawal like you can from alcohol. Pot does well on lethality. No argument here.

Does anyone who discussed how meaningless the ER stats are have a background in the ER or hospital data? If so that would be good information. Or is that or is it just what they are assuming? If it is the latter, I'm not so sure.

That was me, but I was more going on the idea that it is very difficult to disassociate ER visits that are a result of regulatory imperatives vs actual medical emergencies.

There's a link through to multiple studies on this site:

http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/10-facts-about-marijuana/sources#treatment

But I believe these studies include multiple substances and do not discriminate? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[intlzncster]

Has anyone mentioned yet the estimates that some 60% to 70% of NBA players are regular users?

Got to be higher than that, no? Obviously no first hand knowledge here.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

When you legalize a drug or other possibly obsessive behaviors (gambling) the use and related problems go up. When you make it illegal and harder to get the numbers drop.

This is just straight up nonsense. Complete nonsense. I'm curious at this point what your agenda is.

 

[David 76]

This is just straight up nonsense. Complete nonsense. I'm curious at this point what your agenda is.

If you read my posts you would know my agenda. Nothing sinister. I don't want Madison Avenue selling pot to kids the way they do/did alcohol and tobacco. As rampant as illegal drinking was during prohibition, it increased dramatically when it was legalized. As did alcoholism and related problems. When medical pot gets legalized, recreational use goes up. Use is connected, among other things, to perceived risk and harm. Legalization reduces those things. Quite simple, really.

 

[intlzncster]

If you read my posts you would know my agenda. Nothing sinister. I don't want Madison Avenue selling pot to kids the way they do/did alcohol and tobacco. As rampant as illegal drinking was during prohibition, it increased dramatically when it was legalized. As did alcoholism and related problems. When medical pot gets legalized, recreational use goes up. Use is connected, among other things, to perceived risk and harm. Legalization reduces those things. Quite simple, really.

You can thank Edward Bernays for that.

 

[zyron]

If you read my posts you would know my agenda. Nothing sinister. I don't want Madison Avenue selling pot to kids the way they do/did alcohol and tobacco. As rampant as illegal drinking was during prohibition, it increased dramatically when it was legalized. As did alcoholism and related problems. When medical pot gets legalized, recreational use goes up. Use is connected, among other things, to perceived risk and harm. Legalization reduces those things. Quite simple, really.

Another bunch of bu!!. Do you just make this stuff up (like you saying pot is legal in Oregon) or are you using old scare tactics from the Reagan administration.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Another bunch of bu!!. Do you just make this stuff up (like you saying pot is legal in Oregon) or are you using old scare tactics from the Reagan administration.

Probably the latter, along with whatever Fox News is saying. He's just old. Older brains tend to have a harder time adapting. The phrase "can't teach an old dog new tricks" isn't around for nothing

 

[phillionaire]

For every 1$ gained from alcohol and tobacco tax
revenues, $10 is lost in legal, health, social, and
regulatory costs
$
Source: Urban Institute and Brookings
Institute, 2012; Tax Policy Center, 2008

what about all that money that's wasted by putting people in prison over a PLANT

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Esther Choo of Alpert Medical School at Brown, in the Journal of Adolescent Health: "Our study suggests that — at least thus far — the legalization of marijuana for medical purposes has not increased adolescent marijuana use, a finding supported by a growing body of literature."

 

[David 76]

Pot is legal in Oregon (zyron, I hope the pot industry chooses you for their lobbyist))
0.3 % of Americas prisoners are in prison for possession of pot. And that is after plea bargaining)
I want no one in prison for marijuana possession
Adolescent pot use has been steadily increasing for about the past 5 years.
I never watch Fox news

But for those of you that are angry because I don't think pot should be sold by venture capitalists with MBAs from Harvard and Yale with Madison Avenue advertising that will market to kids (like alcohol does and tobacco did), I don't think there is anything more to say.

For those of you that disagree with me and saw this thread as an exchange of ideas, I thank you

 

[Rocktheworld]

Either this clown doesn't know the difference between being legal and decriminalization, or doesn't know the difference between Oregon and Washington.

 

[donyell34]

Chill David.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Pot is legal in Oregon (zyron, I hope the pot industry chooses you for their lobbyist))
0.3 % of Americas prisoners are in prison for possession of pot. And that is after plea bargaining)
I want no one in prison for marijuana possession
Adolescent pot use has been steadily increasing for about the past 5 years.
I never watch Fox news

But for those of you that are angry because I don't think pot should be sold by venture capitalists with MBAs from Harvard and Yale with Madison Avenue advertising that will market to kids (like alcohol does and tobacco did), I don't think there is anything more to say.

For those of you that disagree with me and saw this thread as an exchange of ideas, I thank you

I'm sorry but you're wrong. It takes about ten seconds on google to factcheck your claim that it's legal in Oregon. Let me save you those ten seconds, it's not. It's legal in Colorado and Washington state. That's it. A number of people have now corrected you and you keep going back to that. Are you honestly that worried about being right?

 

[UConnSwag11]

well this thread really took off.....

http://i.imgur.com/DEfnmbE.gif

 

[UConnSwag11]

The reality of addiction is that, a person susceptible to alcohol/marijuana/etc dependence will likely become addicted to something no matter what. If it's not pot, it'll be some other substance or activity (gambling). Given the relative benignity of marijuana, you could view it as: good thing it's pot and not something else.

And just because a small percentage of people do not handle marijuana well, that is no reason to not legalize it. If you treat all things in this manner, no substance on earth would be legal.

The levels of alcohol dependence are more than double that of marijuana dependence (Scientific American). And that 91% (of people who don't have a dependence problem with regard to M) is astronomically high. You won't find too many 'stimulant' substances that match that percentage.

The burnouts are definitely not the equivalent of long term alcoholics. The ravages on the body of alcohol are far more debilitating (and costly) in long term cases on average. Also, rates of violence (and the associated family discord) involving alcohol are far worse than those associated with marijuana.

Not saying some don't have problems with marijuana, but looking at the numbers, it's probably the least problematic of anything out there. Heck, sugar is probably worse for you, and more addicting, than marijuana (I have no evidence of this, just harboring a guess--I'm too lazy to do the research).

EDIT: Also, those hospital admission stats are often skewed because of legal requirements, not necessarily actual issues with the substance. And, only 1.1% of marijuana users 12 and older in 2011 went to treatment for it nationally. http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/10-facts-about-marijuana/sources#treatment

 

[UConnSwag11]

 

[UConnSwag11]

How come kids are always the counter argument? I didn't know that people were trying to get pot legalized for children to smoke. Alcohol, cigarettes, and pain meds are all much worse (And easier to get) but lets keep pot illegal.

yeah seriously let's keep a plant thats been used for thousands of years which no one has died directly from or can be addicied to (IMO you're not addicted to the plant itself, you're addicted to the habit of doing it, the routine and you enjoy it) illegal, but let's give the kids Ritalin, Adderal, anti-depressants etc

 

[GlastonTim]

No one is saying that minors with a developing brain should be smoking. Just like the drinking age is 21.

Pot can cause anxiety in some. Which is why I don't smoke anymore. It relieves anxiety in many others . It's not for everyone, just like everything else in life . Adults should be able to choose for themselves though. If you can choose tobacco and alcohol, both of which are far more dangerous, then you should be able to choose whether to use marijuana.

There are absolute documented medical benefits that are not anecdotes. I have a personal one from a direct family member but I will need to get permission to share. It will blow your mind. It blew mine and I believed in this beforehand.

Please get permission to share. I'm curious.