OT: Need Some Weed?

[Devland]

Colorado raised 21 million dollars in taxes the month of June alone

I get your point but I'd prefer the government found ways to cut spending rather than find ways to raise revenue.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I get your point but I'd prefer the government found ways to cut spending rather than find ways to raise revenue.

Please no. This is totally off point. We have an entire section of the forum dedicated to this. Don't start it here.

 

[SubbaBub]

That's a sentiment that doesn't really hold up in practice. I guarantee you you're around people all the time who don't fit your outmoded notion of the "stoner" and are probably getting high pretty regularly.

I like weed. I really like it. I also spend probably 80-100 hours a week in the office or traveling for work in a pretty pressurized industry, and I don't think I display any of the "stoner" characteristics that you're probably talking about. It's just that when I get home from work at midnight I like to relax with a joint rather than a glass of scotch. I know countless - countless - high achieving professionals who feel the same way. Those dudes from Half Baked are an infinitesimally small segment of the weed-loving population. It's actually pretty alarming that in 2014 people don't recognize that.

I guarantee my friends are smarter than you. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. I don't have a problem with it, but to see grown successful professionals reduce themselves to a bad movie and obsess over it is enough for me. Same goes for tobacco and coffee, but we're all friends anyway.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I guarantee my friends are smarter than you. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. I don't have a problem with it, but to see grown successful professionals reduce themselves to a bad movie and obsess over it is enough for me. Same goes for tobacco and coffee, but we're all friends anyway.

Haha. Um, okay. Who said anything about intelligence? Your response is pretty meaningless. It seems like the issue, whatever exactly it is, is with you, and not so much people getting high. Maybe a stoner stole your girlfriend. Maybe a cup of coffee stole your girlfriend. Strange.

 

[intlzncster]

I guarantee my friends are smarter than you. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. I don't have a problem with it, but to see grown successful professionals reduce themselves to a bad movie and obsess over it is enough for me. Same goes for tobacco and coffee, but we're all friends anyway.

He wasn't talking about intelligence. He was talking about being hard working, assertive, productive people. The complete antithesis of the classic 'stoner' profile.

 

[David 76]

Information
Oregon has had a spike in Emergency Room admissions related to pot since it was legalized. They are taking in far less revenue than anticipated. Arrests and trafficking in illegal pot continue plus illegal use of legal pot (sale to kids) are still a huge problem
If you don't think pot can put you in the ER, you are hanging onto old Cheech and Chong notions about marijuana. It is way more powerful especially with the previously mentioned new techniques and the edibles. $21 million is peanuts in a state's budget even when multiplied by 12 months. Now you have to count the costs involved in setting standards for the industry. the uninsured ER admissions, the extra people going in to treatment.
Legalize it if you want but the denial of reality should not be part of the discussions.
Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem.
The leading cause for adolescent & young adult admission into residential treatment is pot. Not pot plus something else. Pot. If you think insurance companies give away residential placements because a parent is freaking out, you are mistaken

I know I'll catch flack for this post because it's all supposed to be about fun crazy memories and my post is "uncool". But I will put my street creds and clinical credibility with most anyone's. I've been on both sides of this issue, had some fun and seen some young people fall apart

 

[intlzncster]

Information
Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem.

The reality of addiction is that, a person susceptible to alcohol/marijuana/etc dependence will likely become addicted to something no matter what. If it's not pot, it'll be some other substance or activity (gambling). Given the relative benignity of marijuana, you could view it as: good thing it's pot and not something else.

And just because a small percentage of people do not handle marijuana well, that is no reason to not legalize it. If you treat all things in this manner, no substance on earth would be legal.

The levels of alcohol dependence are more than double that of marijuana dependence (Scientific American). And that 91% (of people who don't have a dependence problem with regard to M) is astronomically high. You won't find too many 'stimulant' substances that match that percentage.

The burnouts are definitely not the equivalent of long term alcoholics. The ravages on the body of alcohol are far more debilitating (and costly) in long term cases on average. Also, rates of violence (and the associated family discord) involving alcohol are far worse than those associated with marijuana.

Not saying some don't have problems with marijuana, but looking at the numbers, it's probably the least problematic of anything out there. Heck, sugar is probably worse for you, and more addicting, than marijuana (I have no evidence of this, just harboring a guess--I'm too lazy to do the research).

EDIT: Also, those hospital admission stats are often skewed because of legal requirements, not necessarily actual issues with the substance. And, only 1.1% of marijuana users 12 and older in 2011 went to treatment for it nationally. http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/10-facts-about-marijuana/sources#treatment

 

[zyron]

Post

How come kids are always the counter argument? I didn't know that people were trying to get pot legalized for children to smoke. Alcohol, cigarettes, and pain meds are all much worse (And easier to get) but lets keep pot illegal.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Information
Oregon has had a spike in Emergency Room admissions related to pot since it was legalized. They are taking in far less revenue than anticipated. Arrests and trafficking in illegal pot continue plus illegal use of legal pot (sale to kids) are still a huge problem
If you don't think pot can put you in the ER, you are hanging onto old Cheech and Chong notions about marijuana. It is way more powerful especially with the previously mentioned new techniques and the edibles. $21 million is peanuts in a state's budget even when multiplied by 12 months. Now you have to count the costs involved in setting standards for the industry. the uninsured ER admissions, the extra people going in to treatment.
Legalize it if you want but the denial of reality should not be part of the discussions.
Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem.
The leading cause for adolescent & young adult admission into residential treatment is pot. Not pot plus something else. Pot. If you think insurance companies give away residential placements because a parent is freaking out, you are mistaken

I know I'll catch flack for this post because it's all supposed to be about fun crazy memories and my post is "uncool". But I will put my street creds and clinical credibility with most anyone's. I've been on both sides of this issue, had some fun and seen some young people fall apart

It's marijuana. It's not carrots or sprouts or kale. No one said it's some miracle panacea for all that ails you. I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing against. I believe someone made the reasonably noncontroversial point that it's not in the same orbit - in terms of destructiveness, death, social cost, what have you - as alcohol. With all of your "clinical credibility" you still haven't said a thing to refute that.

Incidentally, a clinical expert such as yourself must know that it's foolhardy to ascribe the various social, developmental, mental health issues that plague adolescents solely to pot without acknowledging the other contributing factors that a lot of people who are most adversely affected tend to share.

 

[donyell34]

No country for old men. Some old and very outdated arguments against. Not for everybody but good for me and many of my friends who all by the way are quite successful. Your always entitled to your opinion but many have no experience with it and just repeat what the a anti talking heads say.

 

[dogfan96]

Information
Oregon has had a spike in Emergency Room admissions related to pot since it was legalized. They are taking in far less revenue than anticipated. Arrests and trafficking in illegal pot continue plus illegal use of legal pot (sale to kids) are still a huge problem
If you don't think pot can put you in the ER, you are hanging onto old Cheech and Chong notions about marijuana. It is way more powerful especially with the previously mentioned new techniques and the edibles. $21 million is peanuts in a state's budget even when multiplied by 12 months. Now you have to count the costs involved in setting standards for the industry. the uninsured ER admissions, the extra people going in to treatment.
Legalize it if you want but the denial of reality should not be part of the discussions.
Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem.
The leading cause for adolescent & young adult admission into residential treatment is pot. Not pot plus something else. Pot. If you think insurance companies give away residential placements because a parent is freaking out, you are mistaken

I know I'll catch flack for this post because it's all supposed to be about fun crazy memories and my post is "uncool". But I will put my street creds and clinical credibility with most anyone's. I've been on both sides of this issue, had some fun and seen some young people fall apart

Pot ALONE will not put you in the ER.. that's horseshit.. it just is.. I guarantee you with 100% certainty that these alleged ER cases are attributable to some combination of pot with alcohol (or something worse). You can spout about your credibility but saying all these people are going to the ER bc of pot use is unadulterated bullshit

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Pot ALONE will not put you in the ER.. that's horse .. it just is.. I guarantee you with 100% certainty that these alleged ER cases are attributable to some combination of pot with alcohol (or something worse). You can spout about your credibility but saying all these people are going to the ER bc of pot use is unadulterated bull

There also may very well be some people that end up doing something different and becoming very anxious and thinking they need to go. In those cases though, there is still no medically necessary reason for them to be there. When the medical treatment is probably "sleep it off", I wouldn't exactly take an ER trip seriously.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Pot ALONE will not put you in the ER.. that's horse .. it just is.. I guarantee you with 100% certainty that these alleged ER cases are attributable to some combination of pot with alcohol (or something worse). You can spout about your credibility but saying all these people are going to the ER bc of pot use is unadulterated bull

What actually happens is that marijuana is cited as a "possible cause" if, when questioned about drug use, the patient admits to having used marijuana recently. The vast, vast, vast majority of "marijuana visits" to the ER have nothing to do with marijuana use.

 

[intlzncster]

There also may very well be some people that end up doing something different and becoming very anxious and thinking they need to go. In those cases though, there is still no medically necessary reason for them to be there. When the medical treatment is probably "sleep it off", I wouldn't exactly take an ER trip seriously.

Pot ALONE will not put you in the ER.. that's horse .. it just is.. I guarantee you with 100% certainty that these alleged ER cases are attributable to some combination of pot with alcohol (or something worse). You can spout about your credibility but saying all these people are going to the ER bc of pot use is unadulterated bull

The only time I can think of an ER visit is when a kid eats an enormous amount of pot brownies or something. They can get very anxious or even trip a little bit, as mentioned. And to reiterate, there is zero you can do but stick them in a bed and wait for the Marijuana to clear from their system. But you can do that at home too. The problem is, school administrators (this often occurs at school) have to send the kids to hospital for liability reasons alone.

 

[phillionaire]

The only time I can think of an ER visit is when a kid eats an enormous amount of pot brownies or something. They can get very anxious or even trip a little bit, as mentioned. And to reiterate, there is zero you can do but stick them in a bed and wait for the Marijuana to clear from their system. But you can do that at home too. The problem is, school administrators (this often occurs at school) have to send the kids to hospital for liability reasons alone.

Just give them water and let em ride it out

 

[breezy]

Information Oregon has had a spike in Emergency Room admissions related to pot since it was legalized. They are taking in far less revenue than anticipated. Arrests and trafficking in illegal pot continue plus illegal use of legal pot (sale to kids) are still a huge problem If you don't think pot can put you in the ER, you are hanging onto old Cheech and Chong notions about marijuana. It is way more powerful especially with the previously mentioned new techniques and the edibles. $21 million is peanuts in a state's budget even when multiplied by 12 months. Now you have to count the costs involved in setting standards for the industry. the uninsured ER admissions, the extra people going in to treatment. Legalize it if you want but the denial of reality should not be part of the discussions. Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem. The leading cause for adolescent & young adult admission into residential treatment is pot. Not pot plus something else. Pot. If you think insurance companies give away residential placements because a parent is freaking out, you are mistaken I know I'll catch flack for this post because it's all supposed to be about fun crazy memories and my post is "uncool". But I will put my street creds and clinical credibility with most anyone's. I've been on both sides of this issue, had some fun and seen some young people fall apart

Cannabis hasn't been legalized for recreational use in Oregon...it's as legal there as it is in CT

 

[David 76]

When you legalize a drug or other possibly obsessive behaviors (gambling) the use and related problems go up. When you make it illegal and harder to get the numbers drop. (opium, pot, etc from the Taft Hartley Act. Just true. No evidence that chronic heavy pot smokers reduce addictions to alcohol or anything else. It adds

Ask me which I'd rather my son have a problem with? I'd say neither. But if you force a choice, I'd pick pot. But I wouldn't be happy. Some of you keep doing the forced choice thing. Alcohol is generally much worse. But not for each individual. To me it is not legal pot or legal booze. I see it as an addition of another problem that will be exploited via Madison Avenue toward kids when we are already doing so poorly with alcohol.

I'm also understand the opinion that babysitting is not the govt.'s role and it should all be legal. Don't agree but I get the logic

And Big Ern, I haven't made a point to refute alcohol is more harmful than pot because I believe, for the vast majority of people alcohol is more harmful. I've said that many times. And while, fortunately, my "professional credibility" isn't determined by you, I would never judge the problems anyone was going through without looking at all the factors of their life.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Cannabis hasn't been legalized for recreational use in Oregon...it's as legal there as it is in CT

I assumed he was full of it, but this just confirms it.

 

[David 76]

Cannabis-related emergency hospital admission rates
have been rising sharply in the US.
• From an estimated 16, 251 in 1991 to over
374,000 in 2008
ER admission rates rising

Source SAMHSA

 

[CallMeBruce]

Cannabis-related emergency hospital admission rates
have been rising sharply in the US.
• From an estimated 16, 251 in 1991 to over
374,000 in 2008
ER admission rates rising

Source SAMHSA

Yes, and we've discussed how meaningless those numbers are. Any cannabis fatalities?

 

[David 76]

For every 1$ gained from alcohol and tobacco tax
revenues, $10 is lost in legal, health, social, and
regulatory costs
$$$$$$$$$$$
Source: Urban Institute and Brookings
Institute, 2012; Tax Policy Center, 2008

 

[intlzncster]

For every 1$ gained from alcohol and tobacco tax
revenues, $10 is lost in legal, health, social, and
regulatory costs
$
Source: Urban Institute and Brookings
Institute, 2012; Tax Policy Center, 2008

Fair enough, but that cost is highly likely to be far, far lower for Marijuana.

 

[David 76]

Yes, and we've discussed how meaningless those numbers are. Any cannabis fatalities?

A guy recently jumped out a window, traffic deaths but no overdoses which is probably what you mean. Lack of OD is a big plus for pot. You also will never die from pot withdrawal like you can from alcohol. Pot does well on lethality. No argument here.

Does anyone who discussed how meaningless the ER stats are have a background in the ER or hospital data? If so that would be good information. Or is that or is it just what they are assuming? If it is the latter, I'm not so sure.

 

[David 76]

Fair enough, but that cost is highly likely to be far, far lower for Marijuana.

I'll give you that. But it won't be the funds raiser the proponents are claiming either.

It is like the prisons full of pot smokers that would save us "billions" if it were legal. Truth is 0.3% of our prisoners are there for pot possession. These talking points of NORMAL and others are like urban myths that people end up believing. Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2004

BTW, there is no way that 0.3 percent should NOT be in jail. No one should be for pot IMO not for any drug. I'm a fine or treatment guy. No record. No detriment to future college or job choices

 

[intlzncster]

I'll give you that. But it won't be the funds raiser the proponents are claiming either.

It is like the prisons full of pot smokers that would save us "billions" if it were legal. Truth is 0.3% of our prisoners are there for pot possession. These talking points of NORMAL and others are like urban myths that people end up believing. Source: Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2004

BTW, there is no way that 0.3 percent should NOT be in jail. No one should be for pot IMO not for any drug. I'm a fine or treatment guy. No record. No detriment to future college or job choices

I will be happy when it is a non event for athletes. Nothing more ridiculous than losing a season due to smoking some weed. 4 games for performance enhancing drugs and only two for beating the living hell out of your wife!