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OT: Need Some Weed?

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If it is the battle of the worst, you could make a good case for cigarettes being illegal first. I don't think pot is worse than alcohol. To me the worst thing about legalized marijuana is that Madison Avenue and corporate greed will focus efforts on minors just like they did with booze and tobacco.
If you want evidence of that, read the settlement papers from the tobacco lawsuit. They planned to get young people addicted because they had found there was little chance that older adults would take up smoking. Or read the research on the percentage of alcohol ads that appear in print& radio ads where the demographic is kids.
 
August_West said:
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And....that pretty much sums up the anti-pot crowd.
 
Or have been around stoners...

That's the best anti-legalization argument. I've never met anyone who is into weed that wasn't really really into weed. It's worse than a bunch of fantasy football guys.

Enabling that crowd doesn't seem like it would benefit anyone. You can here it here already. Can't wait to get my medical card? Really. If the procedures hold up, it's a market of 2000 oz /month for the entire state. Do what you want, but I've always likened it to being around a bunch of drunks. But harmful, it isn't.
 
SubbaBub said:
Or have been around stoners...

That's the best anti-legalization argument. I've never met anyone who is into weed that wasn't really really into weed. It's worse than a bunch of fantasy football guys.

Enabling that crowd doesn't seem like it would benefit anyone. You can here it here already. Can't wait to get my medical card? Really. If the procedures hold up, it's a market of 2000 oz /month for the entire state. Do what you want, but I've always likened it to being around a bunch of drunks. But harmful, it isn't.
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That's a sentiment that doesn't really hold up in practice. I guarantee you you're around people all the time who don't fit your outmoded notion of the "stoner" and are probably getting high pretty regularly.

I like weed. I really like it. I also spend probably 80-100 hours a week in the office or traveling for work in a pretty pressurized industry, and I don't think I display any of the "stoner" characteristics that you're probably talking about. It's just that when I get home from work at midnight I like to relax with a joint rather than a glass of scotch. I know countless - countless - high achieving professionals who feel the same way. Those dudes from Half Baked are an infinitesimally small segment of the weed-loving population. It's actually pretty alarming that in 2014 people don't recognize that.
 
SubbaBub said:
Or have been around stoners...

That's the best anti-legalization argument. I've never met anyone who is into weed that wasn't really really into weed. It's worse than a bunch of fantasy football guys.

Enabling that crowd doesn't seem like it would benefit anyone. You can here it here already. Can't wait to get my medical card? Really. If the procedures hold up, it's a market of 2000 oz /month for the entire state. Do what you want, but I've always likened it to being around a bunch of drunks. But harmful, it isn't.
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Implying that everyone who uses acts like Cheech & Chong is about as true as saying that everyone who drinks gets hammered all the time. There's a logical issue in your point. If they're not "really really into weed", then you probably wouldn't ever know that they smoke. Furthermore, legalization doesn't really enable that crowd all that much. If you're a stoner, it's not like it's hard to get or you're going to be put off by it being illegal.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
Implying that everyone who uses acts like Cheech & Chong is about as true as saying that everyone who drinks gets hammered all the time. There's a logical issue in your point. If they're not "really really into weed", then you probably wouldn't ever know that they smoke. Furthermore, legalization doesn't really enable that crowd all that much. If you're a stoner, it's not like it's hard to get or you're going to be put off by it being illegal.
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LOL.. yeah really.. I tell people all the time, people who wanna get high are already getting high. Trust me. And you're around them every day of your life. Probably at work.
 
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dogfan96 said:
LOL.. yeah really.. I tell people all the time, people who wanna get high are already getting high. Trust me. And you're around them every day of your life. Probably at work.
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I work in Big 4 accounting, I assure you that I'm around them every day at work.
 
SubbaBub said:
Or have been around stoners...

That's the best anti-legalization argument. I've never met anyone who is into weed that wasn't really really into weed. It's worse than a bunch of fantasy football guys.

Enabling that crowd doesn't seem like it would benefit anyone. You can here it here already. Can't wait to get my medical card? Really. If the procedures hold up, it's a market of 2000 oz /month for the entire state. Do what you want, but I've always likened it to being around a bunch of drunks. But harmful, it isn't.
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Here's the thing. We already have a real sample to take from now:
Colorado.

Its a short sample, but in the 8 months it has been TOTALLY LEGAL. I dont see the state falling apart. I dont see stoners laying all over the streets. Quite the opposite in fact. Jobs were created and huge tax revenues are being realized. People still go to work. People still make responsible decisions. Nobody is being arrested or jailed for something stupid, so their legal systems and courts can go after real criminals.

Lets keep it illegal as to not "enable that crowd" ... Please. Even illegal it is easy to get. This didnt stop anybody. Now they can just get it without breaking a draconian law.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
I work in Big 4 accounting, I assure you that I'm around them every day at work.
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If there is ever an industry that needs more weed, it's public accounting (not just Big 4).
 
Husky25 said:
If there is ever an industry that needs more weed, it's public accounting (not just Big 4).
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There definitely aren't many industries where the stereotype and reality are farther apart.... at least on the audit side.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
That's a sentiment that doesn't really hold up in practice. I guarantee you you're around people all the time who don't fit your outmoded notion of the "stoner" and are probably getting high pretty regularly.

I like weed. I really like it. I also spend probably 80-100 hours a week in the office or traveling for work in a pretty pressurized industry, and I don't think I display any of the "stoner" characteristics that you're probably talking about. It's just that when I get home from work at midnight I like to relax with a joint rather than a glass of scotch. I know countless - countless - high achieving professionals who feel the same way. Those dudes from Half Baked are an infinitesimally small segment of the weed-loving population. It's actually pretty alarming that in 2014 people don't recognize that.
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I can't like this twice unfortunately.

I'd also add that, if you like weed, you don't have to really like weed. I know many, many casual smokers. Drs, Lawyers, scientists, teachers, heads of institutes and foundations, and yes, pizza guys, landscapers, carpenters...

Oh, and if you really like weed, that's fine too.
 
SubbaBub said:
Or have been around stoners...

That's the best anti-legalization argument. I've never met anyone who is into weed that wasn't really really into weed. It's worse than a bunch of fantasy football guys.

Enabling that crowd doesn't seem like it would benefit anyone. You can here it here already. Can't wait to get my medical card? Really. If the procedures hold up, it's a market of 2000 oz /month for the entire state. Do what you want, but I've always likened it to being around a bunch of drunks. But harmful, it isn't.
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That crowd doesn't seem to be too concerned about whether you legalize pot or not. In fact, I don't think it's possible for most of them to smoke any more than they already do.

It's the casual smokers who care.
 
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intlzncster said:
That crowd doesn't seem to be too concerned about whether you legalize pot or not. In fact, I don't think it's possible for most of them to smoke any more than they already do.

It's the casual smokers who care.
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http://www.moviesounds.com/vietnam/pot.wav

Gomer Pile: I'm here to make sure you don't say anything controversial.
Cronauer: Speaking of things controversial, is it true there's a marijuana problem here in Vietnam?
Gomer Pile: NO, it's not a problem, everybody HAS it.

Ahh, Robin, Rest in Peace. You brought a lot of joy to a lot of people.
 
intlzncster said:
And....that pretty much sums up the anti-pot crowd.
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↑
5fqeM8p.jpg

Click to expand...

There was a time when gay meant joyously happy. Which happens when you smoke your first joint.

So my cousins says.

Could you be misinterpreting the ad?
 
August_West said:
Colorado raised 21 million dollars in taxes the month of June alone
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I get your point but I'd prefer the government found ways to cut spending rather than find ways to raise revenue.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
That's a sentiment that doesn't really hold up in practice. I guarantee you you're around people all the time who don't fit your outmoded notion of the "stoner" and are probably getting high pretty regularly.

I like weed. I really like it. I also spend probably 80-100 hours a week in the office or traveling for work in a pretty pressurized industry, and I don't think I display any of the "stoner" characteristics that you're probably talking about. It's just that when I get home from work at midnight I like to relax with a joint rather than a glass of scotch. I know countless - countless - high achieving professionals who feel the same way. Those dudes from Half Baked are an infinitesimally small segment of the weed-loving population. It's actually pretty alarming that in 2014 people don't recognize that.
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I guarantee my friends are smarter than you. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. I don't have a problem with it, but to see grown successful professionals reduce themselves to a bad movie and obsess over it is enough for me. Same goes for tobacco and coffee, but we're all friends anyway.
 
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SubbaBub said:
I guarantee my friends are smarter than you. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. I don't have a problem with it, but to see grown successful professionals reduce themselves to a bad movie and obsess over it is enough for me. Same goes for tobacco and coffee, but we're all friends anyway.
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Haha. Um, okay. Who said anything about intelligence? Your response is pretty meaningless. It seems like the issue, whatever exactly it is, is with you, and not so much people getting high. Maybe a stoner stole your girlfriend. Maybe a cup of coffee stole your girlfriend. Strange.
 
SubbaBub said:
I guarantee my friends are smarter than you. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. I don't have a problem with it, but to see grown successful professionals reduce themselves to a bad movie and obsess over it is enough for me. Same goes for tobacco and coffee, but we're all friends anyway.
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He wasn't talking about intelligence. He was talking about being hard working, assertive, productive people. The complete antithesis of the classic 'stoner' profile.
 
Information
Oregon has had a spike in Emergency Room admissions related to pot since it was legalized. They are taking in far less revenue than anticipated. Arrests and trafficking in illegal pot continue plus illegal use of legal pot (sale to kids) are still a huge problem
If you don't think pot can put you in the ER, you are hanging onto old Cheech and Chong notions about marijuana. It is way more powerful especially with the previously mentioned new techniques and the edibles. $21 million is peanuts in a state's budget even when multiplied by 12 months. Now you have to count the costs involved in setting standards for the industry. the uninsured ER admissions, the extra people going in to treatment.
Legalize it if you want but the denial of reality should not be part of the discussions.
Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem.
The leading cause for adolescent & young adult admission into residential treatment is pot. Not pot plus something else. Pot. If you think insurance companies give away residential placements because a parent is freaking out, you are mistaken

I know I'll catch flack for this post because it's all supposed to be about fun crazy memories and my post is "uncool". But I will put my street creds and clinical credibility with most anyone's. I've been on both sides of this issue, had some fun and seen some young people fall apart
 
David 76 said:
Information
Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem.
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The reality of addiction is that, a person susceptible to alcohol/marijuana/etc dependence will likely become addicted to something no matter what. If it's not pot, it'll be some other substance or activity (gambling). Given the relative benignity of marijuana, you could view it as: good thing it's pot and not something else.

And just because a small percentage of people do not handle marijuana well, that is no reason to not legalize it. If you treat all things in this manner, no substance on earth would be legal.

The levels of alcohol dependence are more than double that of marijuana dependence (Scientific American). And that 91% (of people who don't have a dependence problem with regard to M) is astronomically high. You won't find too many 'stimulant' substances that match that percentage.

The burnouts are definitely not the equivalent of long term alcoholics. The ravages on the body of alcohol are far more debilitating (and costly) in long term cases on average. Also, rates of violence (and the associated family discord) involving alcohol are far worse than those associated with marijuana.

Not saying some don't have problems with marijuana, but looking at the numbers, it's probably the least problematic of anything out there. Heck, sugar is probably worse for you, and more addicting, than marijuana (I have no evidence of this, just harboring a guess--I'm too lazy to do the research).

EDIT: Also, those hospital admission stats are often skewed because of legal requirements, not necessarily actual issues with the substance. And, only 1.1% of marijuana users 12 and older in 2011 went to treatment for it nationally. http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/10-facts-about-marijuana/sources#treatment
 
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David 76 said:
Information
Oregon has had a spike in Emergency Room admissions related to pot since it was legalized. They are taking in far less revenue than anticipated. Arrests and trafficking in illegal pot continue plus illegal use of legal pot (sale to kids) are still a huge problem
If you don't think pot can put you in the ER, you are hanging onto old Cheech and Chong notions about marijuana. It is way more powerful especially with the previously mentioned new techniques and the edibles. $21 million is peanuts in a state's budget even when multiplied by 12 months. Now you have to count the costs involved in setting standards for the industry. the uninsured ER admissions, the extra people going in to treatment.
Legalize it if you want but the denial of reality should not be part of the discussions.
Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem.
The leading cause for adolescent & young adult admission into residential treatment is pot. Not pot plus something else. Pot. If you think insurance companies give away residential placements because a parent is freaking out, you are mistaken

I know I'll catch flack for this post because it's all supposed to be about fun crazy memories and my post is "uncool". But I will put my street creds and clinical credibility with most anyone's. I've been on both sides of this issue, had some fun and seen some young people fall apart
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It's marijuana. It's not carrots or sprouts or kale. No one said it's some miracle panacea for all that ails you. I'm honestly not sure what you're arguing against. I believe someone made the reasonably noncontroversial point that it's not in the same orbit - in terms of destructiveness, death, social cost, what have you - as alcohol. With all of your "clinical credibility" you still haven't said a thing to refute that.

Incidentally, a clinical expert such as yourself must know that it's foolhardy to ascribe the various social, developmental, mental health issues that plague adolescents solely to pot without acknowledging the other contributing factors that a lot of people who are most adversely affected tend to share.
 
.-.
No country for old men. Some old and very outdated arguments against. Not for everybody but good for me and many of my friends who all by the way are quite successful. Your always entitled to your opinion but many have no experience with it and just repeat what the a anti talking heads say.
 
David 76 said:
Information
Oregon has had a spike in Emergency Room admissions related to pot since it was legalized. They are taking in far less revenue than anticipated. Arrests and trafficking in illegal pot continue plus illegal use of legal pot (sale to kids) are still a huge problem
If you don't think pot can put you in the ER, you are hanging onto old Cheech and Chong notions about marijuana. It is way more powerful especially with the previously mentioned new techniques and the edibles. $21 million is peanuts in a state's budget even when multiplied by 12 months. Now you have to count the costs involved in setting standards for the industry. the uninsured ER admissions, the extra people going in to treatment.
Legalize it if you want but the denial of reality should not be part of the discussions.
Those "burnouts" we all have run into ate pot's equivalent to an alcoholic. Less dramatic, no deaths, but the equivalent. About 9% of people who get high become dependent, About 16% of kids. Those numbers mirror the percentages of alcohol users who become alcoholics. I have worked with kids for 35 years who went from outstanding student/athletes to "burnouts" failing at school, and dropping every interest they previously had, struggling with their family. I know. You smoked your ass off and none of this happened to you. It's like saying I drank a lot and didn't have a problem therefore people having a problem is BS. But you probably know a person or two that had "amotivational" syndrome and dropped out of school or still live in their parent's house. Again, 91% don't have a problem.
The leading cause for adolescent & young adult admission into residential treatment is pot. Not pot plus something else. Pot. If you think insurance companies give away residential placements because a parent is freaking out, you are mistaken

I know I'll catch flack for this post because it's all supposed to be about fun crazy memories and my post is "uncool". But I will put my street creds and clinical credibility with most anyone's. I've been on both sides of this issue, had some fun and seen some young people fall apart
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Pot ALONE will not put you in the ER.. that's horseshit.. it just is.. I guarantee you with 100% certainty that these alleged ER cases are attributable to some combination of pot with alcohol (or something worse). You can spout about your credibility but saying all these people are going to the ER bc of pot use is unadulterated bullshit
 
dogfan96 said:
Pot ALONE will not put you in the ER.. that's horse .. it just is.. I guarantee you with 100% certainty that these alleged ER cases are attributable to some combination of pot with alcohol (or something worse). You can spout about your credibility but saying all these people are going to the ER bc of pot use is unadulterated bull
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There also may very well be some people that end up doing something different and becoming very anxious and thinking they need to go. In those cases though, there is still no medically necessary reason for them to be there. When the medical treatment is probably "sleep it off", I wouldn't exactly take an ER trip seriously.
 
dogfan96 said:
Pot ALONE will not put you in the ER.. that's horse .. it just is.. I guarantee you with 100% certainty that these alleged ER cases are attributable to some combination of pot with alcohol (or something worse). You can spout about your credibility but saying all these people are going to the ER bc of pot use is unadulterated bull
Expand ...

What actually happens is that marijuana is cited as a "possible cause" if, when questioned about drug use, the patient admits to having used marijuana recently. The vast, vast, vast majority of "marijuana visits" to the ER have nothing to do with marijuana use.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
There also may very well be some people that end up doing something different and becoming very anxious and thinking they need to go. In those cases though, there is still no medically necessary reason for them to be there. When the medical treatment is probably "sleep it off", I wouldn't exactly take an ER trip seriously.
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dogfan96 said:
Pot ALONE will not put you in the ER.. that's horse .. it just is.. I guarantee you with 100% certainty that these alleged ER cases are attributable to some combination of pot with alcohol (or something worse). You can spout about your credibility but saying all these people are going to the ER bc of pot use is unadulterated bull
Expand ...

The only time I can think of an ER visit is when a kid eats an enormous amount of pot brownies or something. They can get very anxious or even trip a little bit, as mentioned. And to reiterate, there is zero you can do but stick them in a bed and wait for the Marijuana to clear from their system. But you can do that at home too. The problem is, school administrators (this often occurs at school) have to send the kids to hospital for liability reasons alone.
 
intlzncster said:
The only time I can think of an ER visit is when a kid eats an enormous amount of pot brownies or something. They can get very anxious or even trip a little bit, as mentioned. And to reiterate, there is zero you can do but stick them in a bed and wait for the Marijuana to clear from their system. But you can do that at home too. The problem is, school administrators (this often occurs at school) have to send the kids to hospital for liability reasons alone.
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Just give them water and let em ride it out
 
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