OT: NBA Finals

[UConn990411]

I was responding to a poster saying Jordan never would have won a championship without Pippen, so I pointed out the obvious that Lebron wouldn't have a championship without Wade. Dwyane Wade already carried Miami to a championship on his own and was happy to play second fiddle to Lebron. Don't put word in my mouth and tell me I said Wade carried Lebron to a title.

My mistake - didn't pay enough attention to who you were responding to.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

No way. Jordan booted in 1st round in year 1. Jordan booted in round 1 in year 2. Jordan booted in round 1 in year 3. In year 4, Jordan picks up Pippen. Does not get booted in round 1. A few years later, with Pippen maturing to his top-50 form, they go to the finals and win. Very simple, very obvious. Jordan was great, and LBJ doesn't come close to matching his fire. But Jordan gets too much credit - without Pippen, he didn't make it out of the 1st round. When he had three years of bums to carry, he folded 3 times in the 1st round.
If LBJ wants to challenge the career success of Jordan - which is likely not possible now - he needs to be more focused in the finals. He's a Ray Allen miracle shot away from being 1 and 5 in the finals. Win two in a row in the next two years, and I'd have to hand him the "better than Jordan" and "better career than Jordan" trophies.

Regarding Jordan's career, there was no Twitter, and whatever gambling issues he had were never made public. His persona was well managed by the NBA and by his agent. He was the Tiger Woods of his sport. He made everybody more money, so everybody took care of his image. It was not widespread knowledge that he called Will Purdue whatever. Nobody cared. As became clear later in his life, he was somewhat douchy and bitter. But the surprise at him being that way at the HOF induction tells you how well his true attitude was concealed. So what though? I could care less. He should have been money making. I'm just pointing it out, because Jordan was phony during his career, and lived for basketball and himself. LBJ doesn't phony it up to make more money, and he doesn't live for basketball.

Do you even pay any attention to the teams they faced? Like at all?

Jordan lost to Larry birds celtics. Lebron played a Celtics team in the first round this year that has been actively tanking/rebuilding for three years now. He played the Bobcats in the first round last year. The east is an absolute joke. And has been for basically Lebrons entire career. Lebron is great. But the east is pathetic.

Lebron can not catch mj. Ever. He's failed/choked too many times now (not counting this year). He gave up years ago against the magic. Faked that elbow injury against the Celtics. Blew it against the mavs. Etc as gurleyman said. Mj literally always came up big. And he got better and better as the moment/stage did as well. You talk about MJs supporting cast. Well he was 6-0 with them. Lebron was 2-2 on the heat super team and one miracle Ray Ray 3 from being 1-3 with that team. Mj always came up big when his team needed him to. Lebron fails to more often than not in crunch time.

Lebron will be second all time probably when it's all over with. But he has zero chance of passing mj. I really don't see how anyone can to be honest.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Jordan rookie season he led the Bulls to the playoffs and the 7 seed. The league was smaller, and so it was easier to get in, but he went into the playoffs with Orlando Woolridge as his second best player. Not a bad player overall, but the career that most matches Woolridge's was James Posey's.

His opponent? A 59-win Bucks team. Jordan averaged 29 ppg, 8.5 apg, and 6 rpg in the series, which they lost 3-1.

The next year, he broke his leg, came back, and still sent Game 2 into 2OT--against the 67-15 Celtics. His second year. He averaged 43-6-6.

The next year, they were in again, and he played the Celtics again... a 59 win team. No surprise, his scrubs lost again. He averaged 35-6-7.

So, over three playoff series Jordan averaged 35 ppg, 7 apg, and 6 rpg. Or, as you put it, he folded.

He finally got out of the first round in 1988. Yes, with Scottie Pippen, but with a Pippen that averaged 8 ppg for the season. Hardly someone they needed or relied on.

Or, Year 1, LeBron doesn't make playoffs.
Year 2, LeBron doesn't make playoffs.
Year 3, he wins a series (one season before Jordan) against a 42-win Wizards team.

People here seem to not want to look at context. You're holding losing against one of the 5-6 best teams of all time against Jordan.

You are bringing the heat today! I'm going to use all of this stuff in future Jordan v Lebron arguments. Thanks for all the great info.

I think Lebron is unbelievable but people who say he's better than mj are nuts. It's not even close. Finishing second to the GOAT is no small accomplishment though.

 

[superjohn]

My mistake - didn't pay enough attention to who you were responding to.

No problem, I think some of us just get a little fired up when he is saying Jordan choked every year in the first round until Pippen came along, it's just so far from reality. Lebron is great but diminishing Jordan's greatness to prop up Lebron as the greatest of all-time just makes people look silly. I think Jordan is better but I have no problem with someone else thinking Lebron is better, everyone should just call it straight.

 

[Rocktheworld]

No problem, I think some of us just get a little fired up when he is saying LeBron choked every year in the Finals until Wade came along, it's just so far from reality. Jordan is great but diminishing LeBron's greatness to prop up Jordan as the greatest of all-time just makes people look silly.

Oops

Just want to clarify, not necessarily my opinion but it's not far off what you could argue

 

[David 76]

Can Lebron fly?

Oh, and MJ didn't save the NBA. Magic and Bird did.

 

[temery]

I'm bored, so I read this entire thread. My only take away is that GSW probably doesn't mean gun shot wound. Curry is unlikely to be our boneyard regular, and the LBJ in this thread definitely isn't who I think he is.

A scorecard for initials would help.