OT: KG responds to Anthony Edwards

[CardiacAndre7]

What insults did I hurl?

Oakley was automatic with his shooting and as already stated he would extend it out to the three point line if he played today as would so many others. Anthony Mason brought the ball up all the time for the Knicks and led the break. With the openness of today's game he would be a monster.

You're making all these definitive statements about players and a timeperiod you clearly never watched.

You throwing “if’s” out there doesn’t support an argument. Pretty much every center can bring the ball up. Is Ant Mason more skilled/Athletic than Bam?

I watched early 2000’s basketball in which some of the players you mentioned flourished. Ben Wallace was one of my favorite players back then, incredible defensively but was certainly no threat offensively, and that’s putting in lightly.

 

[Iluvsuebird]

This generation has had all time greats (LB, Steph, Joker) but ease down with the notion that players today are more skilled. First, the type of defense played in today's NBA is NOTHING compared to D of old. This point is not open for debate; it is a fact. Would LB be great in 1989? Yes he would. But would he have lasted 20 years facing the physicality of that NBA? Heck no. Joker is making a case for him being the best player (and center) of his generation. But is anyone picking him over Ewing, or Hakeem, or Kareem? The 80's and 90's brought us the best point guards ever (Magic, Jason Kidd, Isaiah Thomas), the best shooting guard ever (MJ), the best power forward ever (pick your preference among Malone, Duncan, or Garnett), the best centers ever (Kareem, Hakeem, Ewing). And the undisputed best ever : MJ (with kudos to Kobe). And those guys did not "load manage".
I grew up with a more physical NBA. I am used to that and I prefer that. That's my own bias. Give me Ewing vs. Hakeem. Give me Jordan vs. Reggie Miller or Drexler. Give me Magic and Kareem against Bird. The NBA will never be better than those days.

 

[superjohn]

You throwing “if’s” out there doesn’t support an argument. Pretty much every center can bring the ball up. Is Ant Mason more skilled/Athletic than Bam?

I watched early 2000’s basketball in which some of the players you mentioned flourished. Ben Wallace was one of my favorite players back then, incredible defensively but was certainly no threat offensively, and that’s putting in lightly.

At least you're admitting you never watched the players and timeperiod you're making definitive statements about.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

At least you're admitting you never watched the players and timeperiod you're making definitive statements about.

Way to sidestep. But wrong, still, I watched Hardwood Classics almost religiously in my teens. I’d understand if that’s not good enough for you though.

 

[Scoe]

The 90s isnt ancient basketball and plenty of guys from that era evolved their game as they got older and went toe to toe with the best in their prime players in 2000s and even the 2010s. People love to react to what they hear on Twitter rather then forming their own opinion.

 

[Scoe]

You throwing “if’s” out there doesn’t support an argument. Pretty much every center can bring the ball up. Is Ant Mason more skilled/Athletic than Bam?

I watched early 2000’s basketball in which some of the players you mentioned flourished. Ben Wallace was one of my favorite players back then, incredible defensively but was certainly no threat offensively, and that’s putting in lightly.

A 1st rd pick vs an undrafted player not a fair comparison, yes Mase would do fine in todays NBA, he played at an allstar level after leaving the Knicks made an allstar game with the Heat.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

A 1st rd pick vs an undrafted player not a fair comparison, yes Mase would do fine in todays NBA, he played at an allstar level after leaving the Knicks made an allstar game with the Heat.

I’m not the one who brought him up.

 

[Scoe]

I’m not the one who brought him up.

My bad I see that @superjohn brought that up

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

And the undisputed best ever : MJ (with kudos to Kobe).

What are we even doing here? Most Lakers fans don't even say this seriously.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

This generation has had all time greats (LB, Steph, Joker) but ease down with the notion that players today are more skilled. First, the type of defense played in today's NBA is NOTHING compared to D of old. This point is not open for debate; it is a fact. Would LB be great in 1989? Yes he would. But would he have lasted 20 years facing the physicality of that NBA? Heck no. Joker is making a case for him being the best player (and center) of his generation. But is anyone picking him over Ewing, or Hakeem, or Kareem? The 80's and 90's brought us the best point guards ever (Magic, Jason Kidd, Isaiah Thomas), the best shooting guard ever (MJ), the best power forward ever (pick your preference among Malone, Duncan, or Garnett), the best centers ever (Kareem, Hakeem, Ewing). And the undisputed best ever : MJ (with kudos to Kobe). And those guys did not "load manage".
I grew up with a more physical NBA. I am used to that and I prefer that. That's my own bias. Give me Ewing vs. Hakeem. Give me Jordan vs. Reggie Miller or Drexler. Give me Magic and Kareem against Bird. The NBA will never be better than those days.

I am 1000000% taking Jokic over Ewing lmao. We’ll see where he compares to Hakeem and Kareem at the end of his career.

KG and Duncan did most of their damage in the 2000’s/2010’s, so that’s moot.

Steph is better than Kidd and Isiah, and has a great chance to end up better than Magic.

Just a few points, not touching the Kobe being in the GOAT conversation thing anymore, just silly.

 

[TheChamps990411]

Ant made a comment about Michael Jordan’s era not having many skill guys (which I agree with) and a lot of the old heads have been responding. Kevin Garnett in particular had a pretty passionate response even though he was talking moreso about the 2000s rather than the 90s.



Agree with KG or are players better off than they were in the 2000s today?

And this is why i say Uconn `24 absolutely smokes UNLV `90.

 

[uconngb]

Different eras, different game
The prima donnas today would wilt under the physical play of past eras and many players of old would have killed it from the 3 pt line.
I agree that today's players are overall more skilled because all the positions now demand it.
LeBron James would have his head taken off when driving the lane in the 70s and 80s and it all would be play on while LeBron would be crying to the refs.
I am not a fan of comparing players of different eras in any sport.

This

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Different eras, different game
The prima donnas today would wilt under the physical play of past eras and many players of old would have killed it from the 3 pt line.
I agree that today's players are overall more skilled because all the positions now demand it.
LeBron James would have his head taken off when driving the lane in the 70s and 80s and it all would be play on while LeBron would be crying to the refs.
I am not a fan of comparing players of different eras in any sport.

This take never fails to make me chuckle.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

This take never fails to make me chuckle.

It's so dumb.

 

[superjohn]

And this is why i say Uconn `24 absolutely smokes UNLV `90.

Comparing eras is stupid. You have to factor in play style, how the game was reffed, all sorts of things. College teams don't even full court press now.

This last UConn team played the best brand of basketball I've seen. We play by far the best brand of basketball for this era, it's why you saw us destroy everyone in the tournament.

 

[yungdowork]

How are the athletes simply better now? I keep hearing this refrain that guys are stronger and better athletes now.

Who are all these NBA guys playing now who are stronger than Karl Malone, Shaq, David Robinson, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace etc.

Who are all these guys now who are more athletic than Jordan, Nique, Drexler, Vince, Barkley, Kemp, Rodman McGrady, Chambers etc.

People are talking about across the entire league. Generational athletes would be generational athletes regardless, but it's pretty obvious that even those guys you mentioned would have benefitted from advances in sports science and medicine. I don't think acknowledging that takes away from how great guys were.

 

[superjohn]

People are talking about across the entire league. Generational athletes would be generational athletes regardless, but it's pretty obvious that even those guys you mentioned would have benefitted from advances in sports science and medicine. I don't think acknowledging that takes away from how great guys were.

Can you explain all the advances in sports science and medicine that would have benefited these players?

 

[Hunt for 7]

Once they eliminated hand checking the physicality of the game started to change dramatically. Especially on the perimeter.

Cannot compare eras as a player like Kareem would never have reached the level he did in today’s nba. He never would have been able to cover today’s centers.

He was the previous all time scorer before LB passed him.

Have not seen McAdoo listed he was before his time and when he played center he was a matchup nightmare. He was actually the first KD.

 

[Spaceman213J]

I don't see how you can really compare the two era's.
Before the mid 90's if you were tall for your age, you would most likely get labelled a center or forward and you would be 'stuck' under or close to the hoop and maybe not given much chance to develop the other skills. Coaches would want you to add weight, rebound, score around the rim and protect the hoop and your teammates. I remember watching some big guys shoot from outside, including 3's, before a game and then only step outside to set a pick now and then and not even look at the basket. I remember M. Bol being considered an oddity, not just for his unusual height, but because he could hit some 3's. Centers just didn't go out there and if one put up a shot and missed, he might be on the bench a second later. I look at Patrick Ewing as the example of the big man from the 80's. Even though I was a Celts fan, you had to recognize the skills he had. He had a decent shooter's touch and if he came through the different levels and was developed today, the 3 point shot would have been part of his game.
I do think there are more skilled players because basketball became a worldwide thing and it's popularity really grew in the U.S. as well. I do think there are some players who would struggle if they were playing 40-50 years ago, but most would do fine. I do also wonder what a guy like Jordan's numbers would be today because the game has gotten softer but that is because of the rules and not the players for the most part.

 

[Scoe]

Stop that. I’m a top tier Draymond hater, but that’s simply ridiculous. Draymond is switchable pretty much 1-5 at an elite level at his best and has had points in his career where he was a pretty respectable 3 pt shooter.

Oakley played out of position in 97-98, at Center when Ewing was out for most of the season as were Buck Williams and Chris Dudley. Oakley made the all defensive team that year.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Oakley played out of position in 97-98, at Center when Ewing was out for most of the season as were Buck Williams and Chris Dudley. Oakley made the all defensive team that year.

I mean…that’s nice and all. Draymond won a DPOY and is an 8-Time All Defensive player. It’s not comparable.

 

[yungdowork]

Can you explain all the advances in sports science and medicine that would have benefited these players?

Well surely not all of them but here's a few: a much better understanding of what the human body needs to recover, cryotherapy, electromagnetic pulse treatments, huge advances in arthroscopic surgery, advanced imaging technology, wearable technology to measure exercise variables, a better understanding of fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscles, and obviously many many more.

Exercise physiology has come a very, very long way in the last 40 odd years. We understand so much more about how to have top athletes performing at their best for the long haul. Do you think TMac's knees couldn't have benefitted from some of these techniques?

 

[superjohn]

Well surely not all of them but here's a few: a much better understanding of what the human body needs to recover, cryotherapy, electromagnetic pulse treatments, huge advances in arthroscopic surgery, advanced imaging technology, wearable technology to measure exercise variables, a better understanding of fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscles, and obviously many many more.

Exercise physiology has come a very, very long way in the last 40 odd years. We understand so much more about how to have top athletes performing at their best for the long haul. Do you think TMac's knees couldn't have benefitted from some of these techniques?

Surgeries are one thing but "sports science" is mostly a junk industry people have gotten rich off of.

I don't know what T-Mac's knee injuries were or if advances in knee surgeries would've saved his knees. Maybe. I do think the numbers show the average age and career length in the NBA is now lower than it was in the 90's. There's so many different factors that I wouldn't even attempt to come up with any conclusion as to why that is.

The NBA game is very different now than it was 20+ years ago. Rule changes, emphasis on different things, and a different overall strategy around spacing and the value of the three point shot but I just don't think the players are bigger, stronger and more athletic now. The numbers and my eyes don't back it up.

 

[Beowulf]

is it exhausting to constantly be in a state of BACK IN MY DAY. If something is worse today, hey your generation raised it. Can't wait to root against my kids

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

is it exhausting to constantly be in a state of BACK IN MY DAY. If something is worse today, hey your generation raised it. Can't wait to root against my kids

I’m so ready to annoyingly “what you know about this” to the offsprings about everything in sports and entertainment.