HuskyWarrior611
Mid range white knight
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2011
- Messages
- 5,432
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Can you expound?Some people are so gripped by nostalgia it hurts.
Can you expound?Some people are so gripped by nostalgia it hurts.
Probably not be he was up there. Wasn’t many if any SF playmaking scoring forwards at that time. His skillset was unique.Scottie wasn't the 2nd most skilled 90s wing(SFs & SGs).
Bodybuilding is one (whether you consider it a sport or not) that jumps out to me where the guys in the 90's would destroy the guys today.Old heads tend to do this in every sport, but there literally isn't a single sport where the modern competitors aren't the fastest, most athletic, most skilled group of players we've ever seen. The players now are better because there are a million more tools to get better. There's guys on Instagram that are teaching more basketball skills than NBA coaches were in 1990, and that's not a slight against the coaches. There are just so many more resources to learn the actual skills.
In the exact same way that Jordan had to get tougher to play against the Pistons, basically any star from today's era would adjust and absolutely perform at that level.
Well just none of your post is rooted in reality.Can you expound?
Thanks for explaining. I think guys are for sure capable. Players just don’t attack the rim as aggressive as they used to it seems.Well just none of your post is rooted in reality.
There are many more players capable of posters. Athletes are simply better now.
None of the wings better scorers than Pierce? I mean, that’s just ridiculous. KD, Paul George, Booker, LeBron, Kawhi, etc have higher seasons than Pierce ever did. Could name more. Ant, Tatum, Demar, Jaylen Brown are fully in that convo as well.
I understand the aesthetically pleasing type of game early Pierce had may have an influence on you here. But, each of the players I named have higher eFG% than Pierce. Booker being smaller probably even lends more to my side of the discussion. He can score any way Pierce could, and shoots from deep better on top of it.Thanks for explaining. I think guys are for sure capable. Players just don’t attack the rim as aggressive as they used to it seems.
When I talk about players today I mean moreso the new generation (Let’s say guys drafted after 2015). Not the guys in their 30s that was also a part of that 2000s era or just after.
Booker, Tatum, Ant, and Brown are all debatable. To me Booker is the best scorer on that list that has the complete game to be comparable to Pierce. Just less size.
Probably not be he was up there. Wasn’t many if any SF playmaking scoring forwards at that time. His skillset was unique.
The other wings were Clyde, Nique, and…?
I don’t even think Pierce had an aesthetically pleasing game. I personally hated watching Pierce play because he was slow and sluggish. But he had more scoring skills than the guys of today, FG% aside.I understand the aesthetically pleasing type of game early Pierce had may have an influence on you here. But, each of the players I named have higher eFG% than Pierce. Booker being smaller probably even lends more to my side of the discussion. He can score any way Pierce could, and shoots from deep better on top of it.
Agreed on the point guards and bigs.The small forward position was incredibly weak in the 1990's. Plenty of great point guards, 2 guards and big men.
And I never understand how fans think anything other than the current era is the best product of basketball yet, when it comes to skill, athleticism, and versatility. Guess we will keep having our qualms…I will never understand fans comparing advanced stats across different eras when we know these organizations literally have guys in the front office/coaching staff now that are dedicated to studying the math and coach based off of that so guys are shooting different shots from different areas of the floor now. The eras can't be compared, if you can't take your eyes off a spreadsheet just look at videos to so see how spacing is radically different.
I'm sure you can find someone to argue those points with, good luck on your journey.And I never understand how fans think anything other than the current era is the best product of basketball yet, when it comes to skill, athleticism, and versatility. Guess we will keep having our qualms…
He was friends with Ray Allen in South Carolina. He wanted to go to UConn because Ray was coming there.Didn't KG "almost" come to UConn?
Your initial point mentioning young Wade and Bron isn’t fair then if I can mention older KD and Bron, etc.I don’t even think Pierce had an aesthetically pleasing game. I personally hated watching Pierce play because he was slow and sluggish. But he had more scoring skills than the guys of today, FG% aside.
He was a great 3 point shooter (even in his best years on bad Celtic teams it hovered around 40%), post up game, amazing footwork, and had one of the best go to moves in the game with his elbow pull up. There wasn’t anywhere on the floor he couldn’t score.
Guys in today’s game don’t even have a go to move that they’ve perfected. Only Devin Booker has that kind of skillset that Paul Pierce had to really be a complete scorer rather than an analytically driven player.
Main point is though, Paul Pierce is on the low end of the high level wings from that era and this can be a legit discussion with the best of today.
Agreed on the point guards and bigs.
Who were the 2s though? Reggie Miller and 6’2 John Starks?
he was never going to UConn, I've seen KG re-tell this story on multiple podcasts and on sports docs like Beyond The Glory, he was a Michigan stan because of the Fab 5, that was his dream school and where he wanted to go to if he had got his ACT score. UConn has never been mentioned except for JC fiction.He was friends with Ray Allen in South Carolina. He wanted to go to UConn because Ray was coming there.
He then transferred to Chicago to try and get eligible. He never made it and the rest is nba history.
I would say Durant was the near miss.
How are the athletes simply better now? I keep hearing this refrain that guys are stronger and better athletes now.Well just none of your post is rooted in reality.
There are many more players capable of posters. Athletes are simply better now.
None of the wings better scorers than Pierce? I mean, that’s just ridiculous. KD, Paul George, Booker, LeBron, Kawhi, etc have higher seasons than Pierce ever did. Could name more. Ant, Tatum, Demar, Jaylen Brown are fully in that convo as well.
Jordan was a pretty good 2. He's better than John Starks, IMO.Who were the 2s though? Reggie Miller and 6’2 John Starks?
Larry Johnson comes to mind whenever this argument comes upHow are the athletes simply better now? I keep hearing this refrain that guys are stronger and better athletes now.
Who are all these NBA guys playing now who are stronger than Karl Malone, Shaq, David Robinson, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace etc.
Who are all these guys now who are more athletic than Jordan, Nique, Drexler, Vince, Barkley, Kemp, Rodman McGrady, Chambers etc.
Oakley could consistently hit 15-20 footers so the narrative of Oakley just playing in the NBA due to just being an enforcer isn't true. You put Oakley over Draymond on those Warriors teams he would probably have better results.Yeah but that just lends itself to being a worse version of the game. I understand the enforcers are/were fun to watch, but if for example, Ja is flying through the air and Charles Oakley bodies him to the floor, that’s just dangerous. And again, that kind of shows the skill gap. Brute/brawn over skill and intelligence doesn’t really work.
I’m talking outside of Jordan of course. Because I think that was Ant’s point.Jordan was a pretty good 2. He's better than John Starks, IMO.
I say that because those guys foundations were built in that era. Guys aren’t building their foundations the same way anymore.Your initial point mentioning young Wade and Bron isn’t fair then if I can mention older KD and Bron, etc.
These guys also do have go-to moves. Ant’s hesi is incredible, D Book is is great in the low post as well. Tatum had a tremendous crossover and pull-up. These are guys that are going to end up better than the Vince/Pierce/TMac group (excluding Kobe here).
Again, my initial retort is based on the nostalgia factor some people have. It’s fine to have love for earlier era’s, but belittling current players and this era doesn’t make sense.
if he played today he would have just expanded his range a couple of feet behind the lineOakley could consistently hit 15-20 footers so the narrative of Oakley just playing in the NBA due to just being an enforcer isn't true. You put Oakley over Draymond on those Warriors teams he would probably have better results.
LeBron, Ant, KD, Ja, Fox, John Wall, Russ, D Rose, Shaedon Sharpe, Derrick Jones, Zion, Anthony Davis, Julius Randle, Miles Bridges, Donovan Mitchell, Paul George, Zach Lavine, Aaron Gordon, Trey Murphy.How are the athletes simply better now? I keep hearing this refrain that guys are stronger and better athletes now.
Who are all these NBA guys playing now who are stronger than Karl Malone, Shaq, David Robinson, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace etc.
Who are all these guys now who are more athletic than Jordan, Nique, Drexler, Vince, Barkley, Kemp, Rodman McGrady, Chambers etc.
Stop that. I’m a top tier Draymond hater, but that’s simply ridiculous. Draymond is switchable pretty much 1-5 at an elite level at his best and has had points in his career where he was a pretty respectable 3 pt shooter.Oakley could consistently hit 15-20 footers so the narrative of Oakley just playing in the NBA due to just being an enforcer isn't true. You put Oakley over Draymond on those Warriors teams he would probably have better results.
I named 5 Hall of Famers in the 8 names of strong guys I listed and you have no idea what you're talking about if you think any of the guys I listed served one purpose, to be big strong guys.LeBron, Ant, KD, Ja, Fox, John Wall, Russ, D Rose, Shaedon Sharpe, Derrick Jones, Zion, Anthony Davis, Julius Randle, Miles Bridges, Donovan Mitchell, Paul George, Zach Lavine, Aaron Gordon, Trey Murphy.
I could name more. Those are athletically run and jump guys. A couple of the strong guys in your first group served mainly one purpose in the league, to be strong guys. Those guys don’t really exist anymore because they were fazed out. You need a variety of skill to play in the league today.
Top of the line athleticism/speed/versatility may be comparable to the era you brought up. The depth of that ability is much, much stronger in today’s game. Malik Monk would average ~25 a game back then, in my opinion. The 6th best guy guy today is way better than the 6th best guy back then.
See the words “A couple” and “Mainly” to help clarify that point, if you’d like. You didn’t address skill or versatility from my initial comment you took offense to, so go ahead with that as well if you’d like.I named 5 Hall of Famers in the 8 names of strong guys I listed and you have no idea what you're talking about if you think any of the guys I listed served one purpose, to be big strong guys.
You're just talking out of your butt with this stuff. Malik Monk would average 25 back then. Lolz.
What insults did I hurl?See the words “A couple” and “Mainly” to help clarify that point, if you’d like. You didn’t address skill or versatility from my initial comment you took offense to, so go ahead with that as well if you’d like.
We can debate without hurling insults as well. I know that can be your M.O. but its fine to disagree and discuss.