OT: Keyontae Johnson UF

[mussels]

Oh man -the good news lasted 19 minutes.

"According to a source with first-hand knowledge" - seems to me the Gainsville Sun is completely out of line publishing this. If the news is accurate, Keyontae Johnson should be the one that gets to decide if and when it is communicated.

 

[CTBasketball]

we don’t know long term effects of covid. it could be permanent heart or lung damage though. i wouldn’t risk it

Then we need to shut everything down and not leave our houses until we’re all vaccinated.

 

[Ratso]

Then we need to shut everything down and not leave our houses until we’re all vaccinated.

i’m not saying everyone, just him. he shouldn’t be cleared to play basketball right now. wife’s a doctor so..her opinion matters

shut down? i should be pissed! i haven’t been to work since march. i can live with that ; ) i can barely go out and have fun. i wear a winter coat to dine out

 

[auror]

So according to that source, it's acute myocarditis likely related to his COVID exposure, as we feared.

Also, Florida claims they follow SEC protocol on the heart scans following COVID (although not a specific confirmation it was done in this case).

“At Florida, we do an EKG and an echo on every athlete that comes to us, so we have that on record already. So if someone gets COVID, and we repeat this cardiac workup, we are able to compare back to what they were when they came in as a freshman or transfer here. So we have a pretty good idea if there were any changes,” Florida team physician, Dr. Jay Clugston, told TV20 in August. “There does seem to be more cases or cardiac effects from this virus than maybe we have seen from others, although, we are looking a lot more closely than we have in the past. I think all of us are cautious about it.”

If original scans did not pick it up or it developed later, it might be reasonable for schools to continue periodically scanning during the season for somewhat recently positive COVID athletes out of an abundance of caution.

 

[krinklecut]

Then we need to shut everything down and not leave our houses until we’re all vaccinated.

Pretty sure this is sarcastic but yes. Yes. This is what needs to happen. The federal government has the means to subsidize it.

 

[krinklecut]

So y’all good with someone like Polley collapsing next month with myocarditis? Or any other player? What’s the deal here? Where’s the line?

 

[formerlurker]

Oh man -the good news lasted 19 minutes.

"According to a source with first-hand knowledge" - seems to me the Gainsville Sun is completely out of line publishing this. If the news is accurate, Keyontae Johnson should be the one that gets to decide if and when it is communicated.

It's still good news.

 

[Kathy]

So how much more do people need to realize this is able to harm young people. So we are risking the lives of these young men and women so we can be entertained? Sorry this 'experiment' is potentially way too costly.

 

[upstater]

Oh man -the good news lasted 19 minutes.

"According to a source with first-hand knowledge" - seems to me the Gainsville Sun is completely out of line publishing this. If the news is accurate, Keyontae Johnson should be the one that gets to decide if and when it is communicated.

The Gainesville Sun has to report it. If it's a school source, they're the ones who are unethical. Not the newspaper. A newspaper would have obvious interest in reporting whether the university may be putting students at risk. The school however has to keep this info private. Assuming of course that the Gainesville Sun isn't speaking to a family member.

 

[Chin Diesel]

So according to that source, it's acute myocarditis likely related to his COVID exposure, as we feared.

Also, Florida claims they follow SEC protocol on the heart scans following COVID (although not a specific confirmation it was done in this case).


If original scans did not pick it up or it developed later, it might be reasonable for schools to continue periodically scanning during the season for somewhat recently positive COVID athletes out of an abundance of caution.

Horrible take.

Nowhere does it say or suggest it's likely related to COVID-19 for him.

 

[mussels]

The Gainesville Sun has to report it. If it's a school source, they're the ones who are unethical. Not the newspaper. A newspaper would have obvious interest in reporting whether the university may be putting students at risk. The school however has to keep this info private. Assuming of course that the Gainesville Sun isn't speaking to a family member.

Gainesville Sun doesn't have to publish everything they know. There is no compelling public need to know this information that would outweigh the right of Keyontae Johnson to keep his medical information private.

 

[bmayuc]

Horrible take.

Nowhere does it say or suggest it's likely related to COVID-19 for him.

Uhhhh....

Florida's Keyontae Johnson diagnosed with heart inflammation following collapse at game

A stand-out basketball player, Johnson has been treated for acute myocarditis, a condition that has been linked to COVID-19 infection.

amp.gatorsports.com

 

[Chin Diesel]

Uhhhh....

Florida's Keyontae Johnson diagnosed with heart inflammation following collapse at game

A stand-out basketball player, Johnson has been treated for acute myocarditis, a condition that has been linked to COVID-19 infection.

amp.gatorsports.com

View attachment 62780

If you don't understand the difference between "may" and "likely" stay in your basement and avoid doing anything the rest of your life. Because a lot of things "may" happen to you that aren't conducive to living.

All the article said was he has been diagnosed with something that has also been linked to people recovering from COVID-19.

Making the jump from "may" to "likely" is premature fear prom ejaculation.

All that being said I do hope Florida honors his scholarship to make sure he gets a degree and continues to monitor his health for his own benefit and for the broader understanding of COVID.

 

[upstater]

Gainesville Sun doesn't have to publish everything they know. There is no compelling public need to know this information that would outweigh the right of Keyontae Johnson to keep his medical information private.

Look at this thread. People are wondering if Covid can lead to potentially dangerous complications for student athletes.

 

[auror]

Nowhere does it say or suggest it's likely related to COVID-19 for him.

Excuse my editorializing. It says may be related. *I* am saying it is likely considering the available context. Likely does not mean definitely.

But to think it is not likely would be incredibly obtuse.

Note that I didn't even say that should make us do anything rash. Just increase scanning of post-COVID athletes.

 

[CTBasketball]

So y’all good with someone like Polley collapsing next month with myocarditis? Or any other player? What’s the deal here? Where’s the line?

That’s like saying next time someone has a McDonalds hamburger they’re signing up for a heart attack. It’s a bad take.

 

[krinklecut]

That’s like saying next time someone has a McDonalds hamburger they’re signing up for a heart attack. It’s a bad take.

It’s not at all like that.

 

[CTBasketball]

It’s not at all like that.

You’re saying anything that can do harm to someone, no matter how obscure their condition is, we should restrict it from everything and stay safe.

 

[mussels]

the risk is three times more likely in competitive athletes under 25 years old than non-competitive athletes under 25.

So after 2014 Kevin. Ollie was just trying to keep the team safe. And to think how much the Boneyard trashed him for it.

 

[krinklecut]

You’re saying anything that can do harm to someone, no matter how obscure their condition is, we should restrict it from everything and stay safe.

No I’m talking pretty specifically about one thing here.

 

[bmayuc]

Do you have any #'s on it? Around 100 competitive athletes die from sudden cardiac arrest every year and the risk is three times more likely in competitive athletes under 25 years old than non-competitive athletes under 25.

I regret to inform everyone that Google is a free machine service available to us all, but since you asked...

1. Here's a study that categorizes SCD in athletes. Its not 100/yr its like 66. And half of those are just HCM or other structural defects. 22% are blunt trauma. That leaves like... 15-20 caused by rando conditions like heat stroke. Note what is not mentioned - myocarditis. I mean there may be a smattering but its vanishingly rare even as a condition itself to have. In the US 22 out of 100,000 people. Sudden deaths in young competitive athletes: analysis of 1866 deaths in the United States, 1980-2006 - PubMed

2. This article covers it pretty comprehensively
- Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance Findings in Competitive Athletes Recovering From COVID-19 Infection

3. Finally this screenshot of THIS ARTICLE captures why the severe myocarditis diagnosis should be concerning. Compare normal Myocarditis prevalence which is 22 out of 100,000 people to these numbers:

I mean, this thing is around 8-9 months, and so we are not going to have conclusive evidence but at some point a reasonable person has to look at the dots and get their head out of their ass. This virus has killed 320,000 people since March in the US. Keontae Johnson is likely very lucky not to be part of that statistic.

 

[superjohn]

I regret to inform everyone that Google is a free machine service available to us all, but since you asked...

1. Here's a study that categorizes SCD in athletes. Its not 100/yr its like 66. And half of those are just HCM or other structural defects. 22% are blunt trauma. That leaves like... 15-20 caused by rando conditions like heat stroke. Note what is not mentioned - myocarditis. I mean there may be a smattering but its vanishingly rare even as a condition itself to have. In the US 22 out of 100,000 people. Sudden deaths in young competitive athletes: analysis of 1866 deaths in the United States, 1980-2006 - PubMed

2. This article covers it pretty comprehensively
- Cardiovascular Magnetic Resonance Findings in Competitive Athletes Recovering From COVID-19 Infection

3. Finally this screenshot of THIS ARTICLE captures why the severe myocarditis diagnosis should be concerning. Compare normal Myocarditis prevalence which is 22 out of 100,000 people to these numbers:
View attachment 62793

I mean, this thing is around 8-9 months, and so we are not going to have conclusive evidence but at some point a reasonable person has to look at the dots and get their head out of their ass. This virus has killed 320,000 people since March in the US. Keontae Johnson is likely very lucky not to be part of that statistic.

So you don't have any #'s on it?

 

[pepband99]

So you don't have any #'s on it?

He explained lack of numbers, but since reading is tough, I'll simplify.

1) Many viruses cause cases of myocarditis
2) This virus seems to trend causing it more often, based on limited data
3) This virus is much much more contagious than the other viruses in #1

Anyone trying to spin this is just outing themselves as something not good.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Interesting that the headline says the deaths are "from COVID" but the article says "the physicians said they found that from March through the end of July, there were almost 12,000 more deaths than expected based on historical norms among adults between the ages of 25 and 44.....While detailed data are not yet available for all areas, we know COVID-19 is the driving force behind these excess deaths,”

What the heck does "the driving force behind the deaths" mean. That could mean that the deaths were not "from Covid." Is it an uptick in suicide? In drugs deaths? It's tough to follow the science the science when the science is ambiguous at best.

Please, you have to be smarter than this post!

 

[Edward Sargent]

Then we need to shut everything down and not leave our houses until we’re all vaccinated.

Yep. You do not want to get this virus.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Yep. You do not want to get this virus.

Well, that's kinda true for most viruses or diseases. Not contracting usually leads to better outcomes than contracting it.

 

[superjohn]

He explained lack of numbers, but since reading is tough, I'll simplify.

1) Many viruses cause cases of myocarditis
2) This virus seems to trend causing it more often, based on limited data
3) This virus is much much more contagious than the other viruses in #1

Anyone trying to spin this is just outing themselves as something not good.

Trying to spin what?

 

[upstater]

I really don't understand the confusion here. The syndromes that happen post-infection are never tied absolutely to the infection. They can't be. There are many different causes for such symptoms. So people wanting absolute answers here is a curious wish. Even the doctors who treat these diseases use conjecture. The Mayo Clinic simply provides %s to explain that these syndromes are idiopathic, no cause is assigned, and then it speculates. Yes, doctors and scientists speculate. And it says the majority are caused by infection.

In the case of young athletes in the year 2020, we're seeing some of them come down with the same thing post-Covid. Even though it can't be absolutely ascribed to Covid, the "coincidence" of it all raises alarms. This is normal for doctors working in this field. It's what they do.

Reading the above links on Johnson, it seems to me that doctors are now saying they don't have answers for the questions people have. They don't know what caused it. They can't know. This isn't like Marfan's where a doctor finds a heart abnormality. It's a different beast. The fact that they haven't found any genetic abnormalities and that he was tested before--well, if they don't know now, they will likely never know. BUT, they can guess.

When you're treated for these syndromes, doctors basically say, focus on treatment and ignore the cause. (I only speak from patient experience, and from seeing top specialists around the country. The listing of ailments from Post-Covid infection is so familiar, it's uncanny, for those dealing with these syndromes. No surprises. Textbook.)

 

[pepband99]

Trying to spin what?

Don't be cute. You know exactly what i mean.

Neither of us can prove his myocarditis was caused by COVID, but him getting it via any virus is much more likely than a freak case. He had COVID. This isn't hard, unless you're trying to stick to a poorly thought out position (like @CTBasketball and his hamburgers - lol - that's a real winner)

 

[Edward Sargent]

I really don't understand the confusion here. The syndromes that happen post-infection are never tied absolutely to the infection. They can't be. There are many different causes for such symptoms. So people wanting absolute answers here is a curious wish. Even the doctors who treat these diseases use conjecture. The Mayo Clinic simply provides %s to explain that these syndromes are idiopathic, no cause is assigned, and then it speculates. Yes, doctors and scientists speculate. And it says the majority are caused by infection.

In the case of young athletes in the year 2020, we're seeing some of them come down with the same thing post-Covid. Even though it can't be absolutely ascribed to Covid, the "coincidence" of it all raises alarms. This is normal for doctors working in this field. It's what they do.

Reading the above links on Johnson, it seems to me that doctors are now saying they don't have answers for the questions people have. They don't know what caused it. They can't know. This isn't like Marfan's where a doctor finds a heart abnormality. It's a different beast. The fact that they haven't found any genetic abnormalities and that he was tested before--well, if they don't know now, they will likely never know. BUT, they can guess.

When you're treated for these syndromes, doctors basically say, focus on treatment and ignore the cause. (I only speak from patient experience, and from seeing top specialists around the country. The listing of ailments from Post-Covid infection is so familiar, it's uncanny, for those dealing with these syndromes. No surprises. Textbook.)

well said