OT: Keyontae Johnson UF

[mussels]

You are absolutely correct. Better to ignore the NYT, however, which is fairly radical now, and go right to the source the NYT writer cites, which is the CDC - here's the link . . . Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19 (cdc.gov) . I recommend scrolling down to the blue histogram, which shows the data. The Hopkins author pointed out that the peak weekly death rate in '18, about 67,664, was only exceeded by 12,000/week at the peak of Covid-19 mortality in March, and was only exceeded for 4 weeks during that peak period. In other words, total deaths in U.S., per week, since Covid began, were less than those experienced week-ending Jan 13, 2018 for all but 4 weeks. Her point was that non-Covid-19 deaths have been swapped with Covid-19 deaths. Others have extended her point to - unscientifically - attempt to minimize what this is, by making the point, "well if fewer people died in pandemic week ending Dec. 14, 2020 than did pre-pandemic early January 2018, then how bad can this pandemic really be?" Terrible logic, of course.

This is a severe pandemic, no doubt. How severe? That's a question for history, I suppose.

Thanks, the pictogram is indeed helpful. Looks like the Hopkins author picked the one brief period during January 2018 when, for a short time, actual deaths exceeded predicted deaths, and used that as a basis of comparison to indicate that things aren't that bad. You concede this is terrible logic, and I would add totally misleading.

The pictograph shows that except for the January 2018 period, actual deaths (the blue bars) have been trending below predicted deaths (the yellow line) consistently up to March 2020, when actual deaths began to consistently exceed predicted deaths in a months long trend. Add up all those blue bars above the line and you get the meaningful picture.

 

[auror]

You won't get public buy-in on universal mask wearing in the winter for regular flu. Masks are a key and necessary tool to prevent Covid, absent immunity and other therapies.

But there are inconveniences and drawbacks to universal masking in a "just to be safe" scenario - especially for a virus like influenza that does not overwhelm hospitals, there are extensive therapies for, and is not as transmittable as Covid.

Yeah definitely wouldn't call for universal mask wearing, just too much public health blowback. But just more people wearing when they have flu symptoms? Especially post-COVID where pretty much everyone now owns masks and the policy inertial hump is lowered.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Yeah definitely wouldn't call for universal mask wearing, just too much public health blowback. But just more people wearing when they have flu symptoms? Especially post-COVID where pretty much everyone now owns masks and the policy inertial hump is lowered.

Agreed. Masking in targeted spots as a best practice where you're sick and need to go out in public can be a useful tool.

But public health messaging there is key. It can't be communicated as "forever masking" as some have implied.

 

[ctchamps]

Study relates to Covid-19 pneumonia, as far as I can tell (can't find peer-reviewed publication). It appears to involve people who were hospitalized with pneumonia related to Covid-19 disease, then released.
If that's the case, then this is likely inapplicable to young, healthy, asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic athletes who did not have pneumonia.

Not a good article I admit. I had hoped to find a better report directly from the researchers. If you find a peer reviewed paper on this research I'd appreciate a link to it. From the article:

Eight of them had persistent shortness of breath and tiredness three months after being ill with coronavirus, even though none of them had been admitted to intensive care or required ventilation, and conventional scans had found no problems in their lungs.

The scans (Xenon scans) showed signs of lung damage - by highlighting areas where air is not flowing easily into the blood - in the eight who reported breathlessness.

Regarding what was available I interpreted this new research approach and the MRI images presented in the article as showing areas in the lung in which there was no exchange of gases between the alveoli and capillaries as opposed to lung fluid, necrosis, inflammation or infection. This implies the damage is occurring at a microscopic level.

If my interpretation is correct than either the alveoli are present but not exchanging oxygen implying a loss of function in the alveolar cells or it's the endothelial cells of the capillaries adjacent to the alveoli that are not functioning properly. I've read papers showing that Covid-19 has been observed to have endothelial involvement so I linked the article to @upstater.

 

[JohnFSilver]

ThEn wHy IsNt iT sToPpInG cOvId huuuuhhh????

LOL. I think this is sarcasm.

 

[Stinger92860]

Well, life insurance is monetary. It is a fiancial contract.

health insurance is medical care.

life insurance is also based on risk
medical care should be available for all american citizens regardless

 

[JohnFSilver]

Data generation and collection is one of the most underreported shortcomnigs of this pandemic, especially considering this data is what drives life and death decisions made by governments.

"Death caused by Covid 19" is an incomplete statistic. It neglects the level of impact Covid had on the person's death. Was Covid the primary contributing factor? Was Covid the straw the broke the camel's back? Was Covid even a factor at all?

Similar logic applies to "cases." While it's important to know how many people test positive to gauge the prevalence of the virus, that doesn't tell us much about its impact. What is the rate of cases that lead to symptoms? What is the rate of cases that lead to hospitalization? What is the rate of cases that lead to deaths? How is this distributed across segments of the population by age, gender, socioeconomic status, etc.

This level of data would lead to much more informed decisions on public health measures and increase public trust that leaders aren't just winging it.

Here is what people don't understand. If you have Stage 4 cancer and have a year or 2 to live. You catch Covid and die in 30 days. That is a Covid death with a co-morbidity of cancer.

You died of both.

 

[BGesus4]

Apparently he’s in a medically induced coma. Biggest prayers up for this young man regardless of the cause.

 

[billybud]

Apparently he’s in a medically induced coma. Biggest prayers up for this young man regardless of the cause.

I erased my post earlier about this...because not from an official source...but a staff at the hospital leaked to a friend who psted on Warchant that he is in a hyperthermia protocol...intended to protect brain...ventilated and in coma.

It is now moving around the boards slowly...but it has not been authenticated that I know of...

 

[NC_Uconn_Fan]

Keyontae Johnson, Florida player who collapsed, 'following simple commands' after coma

Florida basketball player Keyontae Johnson collapsed on the court Saturday at Florida State and was transported to hospital in an emotional scene.

www.usatoday.com

 

[CallMeBruce]

You are absolutely correct. Better to ignore the NYT, however, which is fairly radical now, and go right to the source the NYT writer cites, which is the CDC - here's the link . . . Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19 (cdc.gov) . I recommend scrolling down to the blue histogram, which shows the data. The Hopkins author pointed out that the peak weekly death rate in '18, about 67,664, was only exceeded by 12,000/week at the peak of Covid-19 mortality in March, and was only exceeded for 4 weeks during that peak period. In other words, total deaths in U.S., per week, since Covid began, were less than those experienced week-ending Jan 13, 2018 for all but 4 weeks. Her point was that non-Covid-19 deaths have been swapped with Covid-19 deaths. Others have extended her point to - unscientifically - attempt to minimize what this is, by making the point, "well if fewer people died in pandemic week ending Dec. 14, 2020 than did pre-pandemic early January 2018, then how bad can this pandemic really be?" Terrible logic, of course.

This is a severe pandemic, no doubt. How severe? That's a question for history, I suppose.

Delusional

 

[CallMeBruce]

Here is what people don't understand. If you have Stage 4 cancer and have a year or 2 to live. You catch Covid and die in 30 days. That is a Covid death with a co-morbidity of cancer.

You died of both.

Take this one step further, John. We're all going to die eventually, so really, did Covid kill anyone?

 

[UCTitleTown]

The masks and social distancing have reduced cases of the common flu and colds too for that matter.

 

[Yardigan]

The social distancing, masking, and probably just as important the work/school from home stuff we are doing which is only moderately effective against COVID is incredible against regular influenza. We should very much consider encouraging as a society more mask usage during the winter months each year, especially for susceptible individuals or anyone with flu symptoms like they do in Asia.

But, but...@Jay-Bone said if I got vaxxed my society won't have to mask and social distance....is that not true?

 

[krinklecut]

Keyontae Johnson, Florida player who collapsed, 'following simple commands' after coma

Florida basketball player Keyontae Johnson collapsed on the court Saturday at Florida State and was transported to hospital in an emotional scene.

www.usatoday.com

Absolutely tragic.

 

[NC_Uconn_Fan]

 

[gtcam]

Someone mentioned the light influenza seasons for Covid. That somehow something is off. That’s an easier answer. Social distancing and masks has led to much lower flu transmission. It isn’t doctors fudging numbers for $.

Amen to that, now if we could get a clear read on the numbers for Covid-19
I guess we will someday when we have moved on to the next calamity/emergency/issue - can't wait!

 

[uconngb]

This thread needs to be locked. This kid is in a (medically-induced) coma, and you knuckleheads are arguing about Covid. What a joke. Hope the kid is ok, that's all this thread should be about.

 

[Improviser]

Thanks, the pictogram is indeed helpful. Looks like the Hopkins author picked the one brief period during January 2018 when, for a short time, actual deaths exceeded predicted deaths, and used that as a basis of comparison to indicate that things aren't that bad. You concede this is terrible logic, and I would add totally misleading.

The pictograph shows that except for the January 2018 period, actual deaths (the blue bars) have been trending below predicted deaths (the yellow line) consistently up to March 2020, when actual deaths began to consistently exceed predicted deaths in a months long trend. Add up all those blue bars above the line and you get the meaningful picture.

 

[Improviser]

I did not post the above. Not sure how it got there with my name.

 

[navery12]

Amen to that, now if we could get a clear read on the numbers for Covid-19
I guess we will someday when we have moved on to the next calamity/emergency/issue - can't wait!

You know you can't just quote a post and put half a sentence in bold to change what a poster is saying right?

 

[olehead]

Keyontae Johnson, Florida player who collapsed, 'following simple commands' after coma

Florida basketball player Keyontae Johnson collapsed on the court Saturday at Florida State and was transported to hospital in an emotional scene.

www.usatoday.com

Thank you for the update on the young man in the midst of this Covid expert panel. Also, the panel may want to check out what Grandpops has to say in the article.

 

[auror]

Glad that he's responding to simple commands. Hopefully that means they successfully brought him out of the coma.

 

[UconnU]

 

[MuchoDogYears]

Another poster noted that he has practically been screaming about long term effects of SARS-CoV-2 infection, and noted that everything should be shut down if this young man's apparent cardiovascular issue was caused by Covid-19.
People are going to want to to use this young man's tragedy to support their desire for . . . whatever they think is correct.


Well this is exactly the point. This may be SARS-CoV-2 related, but all the science we have to date says, very unlikely. That's not sensation. That's just what the science is telling us. The sensation is the Penn State doc falsely announcing numbers, the German study having to retract faulty numbers, and the overboard reaction to every morsel of news that runs across the screen.


That's not how it typically works, but thanks for the smile this morning. If you believe that, in order to hold a basic belief true, you must first provide "evidence that there aren't," then be super sure not to take any of the mRNA vaccines that they are rolling out - the concept is brand new and the particular naked nucleic acids they are going to be shooting into your shoulder are also new. So we are dealing with a novel vaccine type and novel vaccine within that type, the latter of which has been under development for . . . 270 days.

I'll have no problem taking the vaccine if they make me, or if I have the choice and I choose to, but make no mistake about it . . . we won't know what the long term effects are, if any, until years from now.

Finally, if it's up to me to provide "evidence that there aren't," rather than the person arguing for long term effects to provide "evidence that there are," then you'd almost have to accept any argument that you can't refute with "evidence that there aren't."

For example, the existence of a god or a dozen gods or a sun god. Do you have any evidence that there aren't?

Or Mastodons and Sabre Tooth Tigers in the woods around Storrs, Connecticut. Do you have an evidence that there aren't? I think you do not, sir.

And I'm not advocating for any position. I'm advocating for the science. If a study was produced that showed that a SARS-CoV-2 infection was the primary or substantial cause of a young, healthy athlete's death, you can mark it down that I'll be the first one calling for the season to end.

Thank you for bringing a voice of reason and veracity to this wilderness. I lean towards bringing snarkiness to the battle, but we all do what we can do.