OT: Keyontae Johnson UF

[Chin Diesel]

Yep. You do not want to get this virus.

Well, that's kinda true for most viruses or diseases. Not contracting usually leads to better outcomes than contracting it.

 

[superjohn]

He explained lack of numbers, but since reading is tough, I'll simplify.

1) Many viruses cause cases of myocarditis
2) This virus seems to trend causing it more often, based on limited data
3) This virus is much much more contagious than the other viruses in #1

Anyone trying to spin this is just outing themselves as something not good.

Trying to spin what?

 

[upstater]

I really don't understand the confusion here. The syndromes that happen post-infection are never tied absolutely to the infection. They can't be. There are many different causes for such symptoms. So people wanting absolute answers here is a curious wish. Even the doctors who treat these diseases use conjecture. The Mayo Clinic simply provides %s to explain that these syndromes are idiopathic, no cause is assigned, and then it speculates. Yes, doctors and scientists speculate. And it says the majority are caused by infection.

In the case of young athletes in the year 2020, we're seeing some of them come down with the same thing post-Covid. Even though it can't be absolutely ascribed to Covid, the "coincidence" of it all raises alarms. This is normal for doctors working in this field. It's what they do.

Reading the above links on Johnson, it seems to me that doctors are now saying they don't have answers for the questions people have. They don't know what caused it. They can't know. This isn't like Marfan's where a doctor finds a heart abnormality. It's a different beast. The fact that they haven't found any genetic abnormalities and that he was tested before--well, if they don't know now, they will likely never know. BUT, they can guess.

When you're treated for these syndromes, doctors basically say, focus on treatment and ignore the cause. (I only speak from patient experience, and from seeing top specialists around the country. The listing of ailments from Post-Covid infection is so familiar, it's uncanny, for those dealing with these syndromes. No surprises. Textbook.)

 

[pepband99]

Trying to spin what?

Don't be cute. You know exactly what i mean.

Neither of us can prove his myocarditis was caused by COVID, but him getting it via any virus is much more likely than a freak case. He had COVID. This isn't hard, unless you're trying to stick to a poorly thought out position (like @CTBasketball and his hamburgers - lol - that's a real winner)

 

[Edward Sargent]

I really don't understand the confusion here. The syndromes that happen post-infection are never tied absolutely to the infection. They can't be. There are many different causes for such symptoms. So people wanting absolute answers here is a curious wish. Even the doctors who treat these diseases use conjecture. The Mayo Clinic simply provides %s to explain that these syndromes are idiopathic, no cause is assigned, and then it speculates. Yes, doctors and scientists speculate. And it says the majority are caused by infection.

In the case of young athletes in the year 2020, we're seeing some of them come down with the same thing post-Covid. Even though it can't be absolutely ascribed to Covid, the "coincidence" of it all raises alarms. This is normal for doctors working in this field. It's what they do.

Reading the above links on Johnson, it seems to me that doctors are now saying they don't have answers for the questions people have. They don't know what caused it. They can't know. This isn't like Marfan's where a doctor finds a heart abnormality. It's a different beast. The fact that they haven't found any genetic abnormalities and that he was tested before--well, if they don't know now, they will likely never know. BUT, they can guess.

When you're treated for these syndromes, doctors basically say, focus on treatment and ignore the cause. (I only speak from patient experience, and from seeing top specialists around the country. The listing of ailments from Post-Covid infection is so familiar, it's uncanny, for those dealing with these syndromes. No surprises. Textbook.)

well said

 

[Edward Sargent]

Well, that's kinda true for most viruses or diseases. Not contracting usually leads to better outcomes than contracting it.

You are right. Back when I was a runner when I would feel a cold coming on I would go for a long run and get my core body temp up for an hour or two and that seemed to prevent a full blown cold. It is similar to the old adage "feed a cold starve a fever" and the old time remedy of sweating out a cold with a hot toddy in front of a fire! At some point I realized that cold viruses can have significant effects on heart muscle and stopped

 

[pepband99]

Shove off, I'm not being cute. I'm not in the business of speculating like you guys are. He had Covid and there does seem to be some sort of link to myocarditis but we have no clue what the extent of it is despite people jumping to conclusions and doctors putting out misleading/false reports. The hysteria and jumping to conclusions surrounding this virus has been there from day 1 and has never really relented, I choose not to partake in that...

High level competitive sports have been played around the world the past 10 months and I haven't seen athletes dropping like flies like the poster I responded to hinted at. What happened to Johnson is a rare occurrence this year, and is a rare occurrence every other year...it's why I asked the poster if he had #'s for highly competitive athletes. It would be informative to compare and contrast this year and other years.

You're asking for data that doesn't exist. You can keep asking for it, but it won't magically appear.
I stand by my earlier statement: "Neither of us can prove his myocarditis was caused by COVID, but him getting it via any virus is much more likely than a freak case. He had COVID. "

 

[upstater]

Shove off, I'm not being cute. I'm not in the business of speculating like you guys are. He had Covid and there does seem to be some sort of link to myocarditis but we have no clue what the extent of it is despite people jumping to conclusions and doctors putting out misleading/false reports. The hysteria and jumping to conclusions surrounding this virus has been there from day 1 and has never really relented, I choose not to partake in that...

High level competitive sports have been played around the world the past 10 months and I haven't seen athletes dropping like flies like the poster I responded to hinted at. What happened to Johnson is a rare occurrence this year, and is a rare occurrence every other year...it's why I asked the poster if he had #'s for highly competitive athletes. It would be informative to compare and contrast this year and other years.

I posted a link in the soccer thread of some incredibly debilitating post-Covid reactions from top athletes. It's one thing though for a pro--who is compensated--to experience these syndromes. It's quite another for an amateur college athlete. These two things are not the same. Essential workers put themselves at risk every day--in order to do their jobs. Most pro athletes have decided to do the same thing, though many have opted out. They are all making money. This is a totally different ethical question.

The B1G however elected to not proceed with the season, and then the players insisted on signing waivers. I'm not sure if the B1G took them up on it but it does show the willingness of athletes to play despite the possibilities. Of course, many college athletes opted out as well.

 

[bmayuc]

So you don't have any #'s on it?

This childish nihilism will be what I remember most about 2020 - being gobsmacked finding out that a large swath of the country is willing to publicly beclown themselves in service of... I'm not really sure what? Basketball games? Is it for their ego? Is it for the Boneyard LOLz?

Whatever it is, its pathetic and I have come to the realization that all of these people should be excluded from adult decision-making for life for this abdication of judgement.

Like can we brand these people like they do on Inglorious Basterds? I don't want time to wash off the stench of their gleeful retreat from the obligations of our social contract to look after each other. I think it is an important piece of demographic data we require moving forward.

The reason is because I actually tried to deliver the information and data requested by @superjohn , to engage him in a conversation of the facts at hand, and quickly realized through his response he had no interest in learning, only in wasting my time. This is the real con of nihilists - its not just that they don't care about anything or anyone, its that they intentionally waste your time arguing by demanding facts - only to immediately disregard and insult those who do the work and help provide them.

People like that suck.

 

[superjohn]

This childish nihilism will be what I remember most about 2020 - being gobsmacked finding out that a large swath of the country is willing to publicly beclown themselves in service of... I'm not really sure what? Basketball games? Is it for their ego? Is it for the Boneyard LOLz?

Whatever it is, its pathetic and I have come to the realization that all of these people should be excluded from adult decision-making for life for this abdication of judgement.

Like can we brand these people like they do on Inglorious Basterds? I don't want time to wash off the stench of their gleeful retreat from the obligations of our social contract to look after each other. I think it is an important piece of demographic data we require moving forward.

The reason is because I actually tried to deliver the information and data requested by @superjohn , to engage him in a conversation of the facts at hand, and quickly realized through his response he had no interest in learning, only in wasting my time. This is the real con of nihilists - its not just that they don't care about anything or anyone, its that they intentionally waste your time arguing by demanding facts - only to immediately disregard and insult those who do the work and help provide them.

People like that suck.

Nihilism? You made a statement that elite athletes collapse like that all the time. This was a snarky response so I asked about numbers. I've seen athletes collapse and die in years other than 2020. It's extremely rare, I'm under the impression it's still extremely rare in 2020 and asked if you had some numbers, nothing more. Your diatribe does nothing to move me, I guess that makes me a nihilist.

 

[kemba]

Saying it was definitely caused by Covid would be irresponsible (I haven't seen anyone say that but maybe i missed it) saying likely is not. Myocarditis happens after infections, its been linked to covid, and at a higher rate than other viral infections. He had covid. This happening is a rare occurrence, but athletes being shut down this year with myocarditis after having covid is a less rare occurrence. Shutting down the season because of this shouldn't happen, but if he had a full heart work up before the season and was fine then, than it would seem some adjustments need to be made to the protocols for athletes who had covid, with more regular monitoring and testing even after recovering.

 

[Scoe]

If we weren’t in 2020 the talk here about shutting down isn’t even a discussion. It’s really no ones business whether Deontae Johnson has covid or not. I’m pretty sure he would be the last person that would want the season to be shut down.

What happened to Johnson also could’ve happened from his home. Players are safer on campus as a matter of fact, being with the team and around campus facilities might have very well saved his life. Prayers he gets a full recovery first and foremost and is able to play in the NBA next year.

 

[87Xfer]

College basketball star who collapsed during a game and was put into a coma has heart condition associated with COVID-19

 

[Rocktheworld]

Thread just keeps getting dumber and dumber. Can’t say I’m shocked that the evidence of myocarditis came out, nor the response from our room-temp-IQ crowd ITT.

 

[UConnRock]

College basketball star who collapsed during a game and was put into a coma has heart condition associated with COVID-19

Excellent journalism

1st Paragraph:

Keyontae Johnson — the Florida Gators star who collapsed during a game and was placed in a medically-induced coma — has been diagnosed with a heart condition related to COVID-19.

3rd Paragraph:

According to Zach Abolverdi of The Gainesville Sun, Johnson's acute myocarditis "can't be definitively linked to his COVID diagnosis." Should medical experts determine causation between his confirmed case of the coronavirus this summer and his newfound heart condition, the repercussions could have a resounding impact across the entire sports world.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Excellent journalism

1st Paragraph:

Keyontae Johnson — the Florida Gators star who collapsed during a game and was placed in a medically-induced coma — has been diagnosed with a heart condition related to COVID-19.

3rd Paragraph:

According to Zach Abolverdi of The Gainesville Sun, Johnson's acute myocarditis "can't be definitively linked to his COVID diagnosis." Should medical experts determine causation between his confirmed case of the coronavirus this summer and his newfound heart condition, the repercussions could have a resounding impact across the entire sports world.

Pneumonia can’t be “definitively” linked to COVID either. Not the semantic game a lay person wants to play here.

 

[casual-yardin]

Excellent journalism

1st Paragraph:

Keyontae Johnson — the Florida Gators star who collapsed during a game and was placed in a medically-induced coma — has been diagnosed with a heart condition related to COVID-19.

3rd Paragraph:

According to Zach Abolverdi of The Gainesville Sun, Johnson's acute myocarditis "can't be definitively linked to his COVID diagnosis." Should medical experts determine causation between his confirmed case of the coronavirus this summer and his newfound heart condition, the repercussions could have a resounding impact across the entire sports world.

I don't know about excellent but it seems fine. What is the point you are trying to make?

 

[David 76]

Shove off, I'm not being cute. I'm not in the business of speculating like you guys are. He had Covid and there does seem to be some sort of link to myocarditis but we have no clue

We have several huge clues. Not enough to convict " beyond the shadow of a doubt" but enough to make an educated guess.

 

[David 76]

I think some people feel so entitled they are just defensive to any evidence that threatens their desire to not sacrifice anything. The thing may be to be entertained by sports, giving up travel for a bit or just wear a mask. We have developed an army of defensive experts who are sure they know more than the community of public health experts. Questions and challenges are fine. It is the headstrong surety that has been really hurting our country. They spread the virus, the stubbornness and even violence.